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azure1961p
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Moon and Skyglow filter - really?
      #6042522 - 08/23/13 09:33 PM

Lately Ive been using my Baader Moon and Skyglow filter on the moon (afterall). I have to say it seems rather pointless. Don't get me wrong this neodymium is an EXCELLENT contrast engancing filter on a number of objects and ok, it brings a creamy summer moon to a more neutral correct grey - but the sky glow moon thing. Zero on that account.

Anyone else find this to be true? What IS the advantage with the moon here?

Pete


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Rick Woods
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6042667 - 08/23/13 11:04 PM

I've actually never found a use for it. I bought one for use with Mars, but it turned out to be more or less useless.

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azure1961p
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #6042712 - 08/23/13 11:44 PM

Haven't tried it out on that one yet. Its a curious little filter though - its light curves seemingly have bracketed drop outs between colors - primarily yellow-green but elsewhere to that seems to isolate the colors it does pass and enhances them without the polluting effects of the colors blocked. Reds are more vibrant - blues too . Mars though - haven't tried that yet.

Ill tell you Rick, Naglers got some promising looking filters for Mars - two infact if memory serves. These may just be the ticket. Have you tried these?

Pete


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jg3
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6042752 - 08/24/13 12:30 AM

I have one of those too. Totally mis-named, probably from their early experimental days with neodymium glass. I thought the idea was to block moonlight and skyglow when observing deep-space objects when the moon is up. Now we have better filters for light-pollution control.

I do find it helps me better see features of Mars and Jupiter, but not on the Moon itself. I'd still like to compare it to the planetary filters by TeleVue and Denkmeier.


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David Knisely
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6042823 - 08/24/13 01:23 AM

Quote:

Lately Ive been using my Baader Moon and Skyglow filter on the moon (afterall). I have to say it seems rather pointless. Don't get me wrong this neodymium is an EXCELLENT contrast engancing filter on a number of objects and ok, it brings a creamy summer moon to a more neutral correct grey - but the sky glow moon thing. Zero on that account.

Anyone else find this to be true? What IS the advantage with the moon here?

Pete




I have a very similar filter (the old Sirius Optics NPC filter). I use it mainly on my 80mm f/5 refractor and my 100mm f/6 refractor, as it tends to tone down the faint color fringing of both of the achromat doublets these scopes use. Other than that, I don't use it very much. Clear skies to you.


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cpsTN
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: David Knisely]
      #6043417 - 08/24/13 11:31 AM

I have found it really useful and that is shows quite noticeable effects on Jupiter, but not noticeable on anything else.

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Rick Woods
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6045182 - 08/25/13 01:22 PM

Quote:

Ill tell you Rick, Naglers got some promising looking filters for Mars - two infact if memory serves. These may just be the ticket. Have you tried these?




I haven't, mostly because of the price. But I do have the old Sirius Optics Mars filter, and a #30 magenta filter. These are both great performers, and I haven't felt the urge to spring for the TV offerings (yet).


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Rick Woods
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: cpsTN]
      #6045183 - 08/25/13 01:23 PM

Quote:

I have found it really useful and that is shows quite noticeable effects on Jupiter, but not noticeable on anything else.




Hmmm. I'll try it on the Jupster next time I have him in view. Thanks for the tip.


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azure1961p
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #6045770 - 08/25/13 07:11 PM

Thanks for the comments guys. I do need to get a magenta filter finally - I know Vernonscope carries it.

I do love the NEO filter by the way - its name however is not really covering what this filter is about.

Pete


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Sarkikos
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6046564 - 08/26/13 08:55 AM

Pete,

Quote:

Lately Ive been using my Baader Moon and Skyglow filter on the moon (afterall). I have to say it seems rather pointless. Don't get me wrong this neodymium is an EXCELLENT contrast engancing filter on a number of objects and ok, it brings a creamy summer moon to a more neutral correct grey - but the sky glow moon thing. Zero on that account.

Anyone else find this to be true? What IS the advantage with the moon here?




There is no advantage with the Moon. There is not supposed to be any advantage with the Moon. The Baader M&SG is not meant to be used as a Moon filter. The original idea seems to be that glare from the Moon as well as skyglow can diminish contrast for planets. The point of the M&SG is to enhance contrast for planet observation.

Neodymium Moon & SkyGlow Filter pdf

IME, the Baader M&SF is the best general contrast enhancing filter for viewing Jupiter, Mars and Saturn. To my eyes, the improvement in contrast is obvious. Now, I'm not saying that the M&SF will allow discernment of planet surface detail not visible without the filter - very few if any filters will - but it does make the detail easier to see.

The Baader M&SG is not a Moon filter nor a deep sky filter. It is a planet filter.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6046584 - 08/26/13 09:07 AM

For Mars, the Magenta #30 improves contrast simultaneously for surface features and atmosphere. Other filters will do one or the other but not both. (For example, the two Mars filters from TeleVue.) IMO, Magenta is the best general filter for Mars. Also IMO, M&SG is a close runner up.

Some observers also like the Salmon #80 for Martian maria. I've tried the Salmon but didn't see much advantage to it, at least compared to the Magenta.

I actually like the effect of Magenta stacked with the Baader M&SG for Mars. The M&SG is a great filter for experimenting. Viewing Jupiter or Mars with various color filters stacked with the M&SG is a treat.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6046589 - 08/26/13 09:12 AM

I see in my notes collected from other observers that Magenta is supposed to be a good filter for enhancing white ovals on Jupiter. I've never tried this myself. I'll have to give it a go next time I observe Jupiter.

Mike


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BSJ
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6047118 - 08/26/13 02:37 PM

I like using my M&SG stacked with a fringe killer on the Moon and Jupiter. Heck I even like using that combo when I view the sun with a Baader film white light filter.

Just more comfortable and I see more detail. Same on my Newts and SCT.


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azure1961p
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: BSJ]
      #6047655 - 08/26/13 08:30 PM

Thanks for the clarifying Mike. It actually does a nice job removing that summer haze yellow the moon can have and leaves a more natural lunar grey so its good to that extent. Again thanks for explaining.

Pete


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Eric63
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: BSJ]
      #6047733 - 08/26/13 09:16 PM

Is that combination not similar to the Baader Contrast Booster?

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azure1961p
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Eric63]
      #6047750 - 08/26/13 09:28 PM

Same thing . I opted for seperate filters though as a fringe killer on my reflector isn't needed. The combo on a refractor - now that I've used them stacked - is the best way to go by far. For differing scope designs where they focus all light equally the fringe killer just isn't advantageous.

The NEO as Mike Mentions though is a hands down fav in my filter kit .


Peye


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azure1961p
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Eric63]
      #6047753 - 08/26/13 09:29 PM

Same thing . I opted for seperate filters though as a fringe killer on my reflector isn't needed. The combo on a refractor - now that I've used them stacked - is the best way to go by far. For differing scope designs where they focus all light equally the fringe killer just isn't advantageous.

The NEO as Mike Mentions though is a hands down fav in my filter kit for planetary. Not that wrattens are antiquated, far from it but as a very effective gentle filter - its a clear success.


Pete


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Eric63
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6047765 - 08/26/13 09:35 PM

I have both the M&SG filter and the contrast booster. I bought them when I had my 102mm F5 achro, but unfortunately nothing could help that scope on the planets I'm now curious to try them on my Mak and Newt on Jupiter.

Eric


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azure1961p
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Eric63]
      #6048282 - 08/27/13 07:34 AM

F/5 is pretty fast for a 102mm achro - must've been great in deepsky though. My Ranger at f6.8 is about as fast as I'd want to go. The glass is actually as good as it can be and still be an achro in terms of CA so the MSG does a really fine job actually. Like you say though at f/5 - it had its work load and then some.

Pete




Edited by azure1961p (08/27/13 07:40 AM)


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LThomas
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6048351 - 08/27/13 08:31 AM

My Issue is the moon is blinding in the telescope. I use an ES 18MM*82 EP and I just cant stand looking at the moon as its so bright.

Is there a filter that will reduce this brightness so that one is able to actually view the moon without being permanently blind?

I have the Zhumel "see it all" filter set but no filter seems to hardly do any good in reducing the blinding glare of the moon.


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Sarkikos
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: BSJ]
      #6048367 - 08/27/13 08:41 AM

Quote:

I like using my M&SG stacked with a fringe killer on the Moon and Jupiter. Heck I even like using that combo when I view the sun with a Baader film white light filter.

Just more comfortable and I see more detail. Same on my Newts and SCT.




Stacking the M&SG with FK is supposed to give results close to the Baader SemiApo filter. I have all three filters. It is close. I've experimented with that combo, and with each filter separately, for viewing the bright planets. I still prefer the M&SG alone in most cases, and sometimes stacked with a good color filter.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Eric63]
      #6048377 - 08/27/13 08:48 AM

Quote:

I have both the M&SG filter and the contrast booster. I bought them when I had my 102mm F5 achro, but unfortunately nothing could help that scope on the planets I'm now curious to try them on my Mak and Newt on Jupiter.

Eric




Sounds like my experience with an ST80, also an f/5 achro. Great for rich-field wide-field low-power views of DSO. Not so good for lunar and planets - even with a SemiApo filter, VR-1, Fringe Killer, what have you. Maybe OK for low-power views of the Moon, but I wouldn't bother taking a scope out for just lunar low-power.

But with a Mak or Newt, now you're talking. A good contrast filter will improve the view of the bright planets with those scopes.

Mike


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Eric63
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6048390 - 08/27/13 08:54 AM

Well Mike, I think it's time to dust off those filters. Thanks to all for the advice.

Eric


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Sarkikos
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: LThomas]
      #6048400 - 08/27/13 08:59 AM

Quote:

My Issue is the moon is blinding in the telescope. I use an ES 18MM*82 EP and I just cant stand looking at the moon as its so bright.

Is there a filter that will reduce this brightness so that one is able to actually view the moon without being permanently blind?

I have the Zhumel "see it all" filter set but no filter seems to hardly do any good in reducing the blinding glare of the moon.




You can use a neutral density filter to reduce the perceived glare when viewing the Moon through a telescope. But that glare is only "perceived." If you were to view the Moon through that same telescope at the same magnification during the day, I guarantee it would not seem too bright. The reason the Moon appears so bright at night is that your eyes are not prepared properly to view it.

What you can do is just bare with it and allow your eyes to become accustomed to the level of brightness that the Moon provides in your telescope.

Or you can increase magnification to reduce the exit pupil and the brightness of the image.

Or you can make sure that your eyes are correctly adapted before viewing the Moon. Do this by keeping ambient white light on near your observing area or by looking at the reflection from a piece of white paper as you shine a bright white-light flashlight on it. Even partial dark adaptation is not needed for viewing the Moon. Your eyes should be photopic adapted (like they are during the day).

Mike


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BSJ
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6048472 - 08/27/13 09:46 AM

Yeah, I started with a 1.25" FK and M&SG. I tried them alone but liked them better stacked.

I didn't want to spend the money on one each in 2" so I got a 2" SimiApo. To me the stacked filters gave a more neutral coloring. The SimiApo gives things a bit more yellow than I would have liked. But I'll live with it becasue I want to stick with 2" stuff.


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Rick Woods
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6048888 - 08/27/13 01:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My Issue is the moon is blinding in the telescope. I use an ES 18MM*82 EP and I just cant stand looking at the moon as its so bright.

Is there a filter that will reduce this brightness so that one is able to actually view the moon without being permanently blind?

I have the Zhumel "see it all" filter set but no filter seems to hardly do any good in reducing the blinding glare of the moon.




You can use a neutral density filter to reduce the perceived glare when viewing the Moon through a telescope.




A variable polarizing filter is also very handy for this.


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JimK
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Re: Moon and Skyglow filter - really? new [Re: LThomas]
      #6049183 - 08/27/13 04:13 PM

Quote:

My Issue is the moon is blinding in the telescope. I use an ES 18MM*82 EP and I just cant stand looking at the moon as its so bright.

Is there a filter that will reduce this brightness so that one is able to actually view the moon without being permanently blind?

I have the Zhumel "see it all" filter set but no filter seems to hardly do any good in reducing the blinding glare of the moon.



I just observe a bright moon with white lights on (house, garage, etc.). This makes it very easy to read charts and such, find my stuff, and enjoy a bright moon. For outreach where there are minimal lights I use a ND9 (13% transmission neutral density) grey filter, but for personal use I generally just leave the lights on. Some people recommend just increasing magnification to dim the view, but air turbulence, or what details you wish to view, may not support high magnification.

I also use the Moon-Skyglow, since I have one, on the moon itself -- my eyes enjoy the mild effect of subtle glare reduction. When combined (not directly stacked, but with a diagonal for separation) with a Fringe-Killer on the moon, my 100mm f/10 achro refractor has less chromatic aberration visible to me and a more pleasing tone (less yellow from the Fringe-Killer alone). I also have the Contrast Booster (it has a definite yellow tint) that I just use for more pleasing solar views using Baader solar film (which has a slight bluish tint) -- and I sometimes use it on Jupiter for bands.

To *my* eyes, a polarizer pair adds fuzziness in addition to dimming the view, so I have stopped using them.

In all cases, filters just remove things that may detract from a view, and telescopes/eyepieces/eyeballs are all different, such that some like to use filters, others do not, and the overall effects in one situation are different from another.


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