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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Beginning and Intermediate Imaging

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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
New Orion "thin" OAG
      #6046535 - 08/26/13 08:20 AM

Looks like Orion has entered the world of Thin OAGs. My question would be if it is in fact as thin as a T Ring when used with the required adapters for a Canaon DSLR, such as the TOAG9. I can't wait to read the reviews as they come in.

http://www.telescope.com/Gift-Center/New-Products/Orion-Thin-Off-Axis-Guider-...


Edited by Wmacky (08/26/13 09:15 AM)


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Wmacky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6079250 - 09/13/13 07:11 PM

Where are all the gear heads?

Looks like no one has taken the plunge yet. I'm surprised there has been no interested here as it's the first "thin" OAG easily available in the US. I'd love to grab one and review it here, but I'm so new to this I'm afraid that my observations, and comments would be a little merit.....

I'm hoping that with the proper adapters attached it will be no thicker than a standard T Ring thereby replacing the T ring with no spacing changes?

Edited by Wmacky (09/13/13 07:16 PM)


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Raginar
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Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6079300 - 09/13/13 07:47 PM

I was thinking about ordering one. I'll let you know

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Adam E
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Reged: 06/29/09

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Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6079387 - 09/13/13 08:39 PM

Looks pretty neat, and it appears to possibly address one annoying problem I found with the TS OAG when I had one. The TS OAG only uses one set screw to hold the prism stalk in place. The single screw basically wedges the stalk against the opposing side of the body piece. The Orion OAG appears to use a set screw on either side of the stalk. I found that my TS OAG was prone to experiencing 'wobble' of the prism stalk unless I went Gorilla Monsoon on the set screw. Maybe the Orion OAG will be better about this.

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SMigol
sage


Reged: 07/30/10

Loc: California, USA
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Adam E]
      #6079440 - 09/13/13 09:14 PM

I picked up one from the local office. It comes with a Canon and T ring adapter for the sensor end. Overall thickness of the assembly is 13mm. They use a special ring with "ears" that's recessed past the mirror. This ring allows slight rotation of the assembly - maybe 45 degrees. The pick off mirror can be moved sideways a little bit, too. The recessed ring and the mirror can be secured by two thumb screws. This seems to reduce chance of flexure.

Edited by SMigol (09/13/13 09:15 PM)


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Raginar
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Reged: 10/19/10

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Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: SMigol]
      #6079454 - 09/13/13 09:29 PM

The manual says it has a c mount adapter too. Ordered.

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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

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Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Raginar]
      #6081340 - 09/15/13 12:19 AM

Quote:

The manual says it has a c mount adapter too. Ordered.




Let us know what you think! I notice this OAG looks a lot like the Lacerta unit.


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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: SMigol]
      #6081348 - 09/15/13 12:27 AM

Quote:

I picked up one from the local office. It comes with a Canon and T ring adapter for the sensor end. Overall thickness of the assembly is 13mm. They use a special ring with "ears" that's recessed past the mirror. This ring allows slight rotation of the assembly - maybe 45 degrees. The pick off mirror can be moved sideways a little bit, too. The recessed ring and the mirror can be secured by two thumb screws. This seems to reduce chance of flexure.




Up for more measurements?

I measured my T-ring from the outer edge of the canon EOS bayonet to the start of the threaded portion on the other side that accepts the T2 adapter nose piece.

I get 16.6mm

I'd love to know how the OAG measures in the same configuration.


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SMigol
sage


Reged: 07/30/10

Loc: California, USA
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6081435 - 09/15/13 02:23 AM

I put the Canon adapter in place and measured it with my depth gauge and show 19.22 mm. This is measured from one side to the end of the flange bayonet. There might be a slight protrusion beyond the standard depth because of the thickness of the metal part. As best I can measure to the flange surface (the face of the bayonet) it shows 15.00 mm.

Stephen


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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: SMigol]
      #6081445 - 09/15/13 02:53 AM

Quote:

I put the Canon adapter in place and measured it with my depth gauge and show 19.22 mm. This is measured from one side to the end of the flange bayonet. There might be a slight protrusion beyond the standard depth because of the thickness of the metal part. As best I can measure to the flange surface (the face of the bayonet) it shows 15.00 mm.

Stephen




Hmmm, I kinda confused as to your 2 different measurements?

I just dropped my T-ring between the jaws of my digital calipers and got 16.6mm total thickness -end to end.

This is with the EOS bayonet on one side, and T2 female threads on the other.

Sounds like you got 19.22 mm making this measurement? That could be an issue if you current imaging train already had perfect back focus spacing using a T-ring! Then again thats just 2.5mm difference. Are all T-rings about the same thickness I wonder?

Anyone know the total thickness of the EOS version TOAG9, and the Lacente OAG?

Edited by Wmacky (09/15/13 03:03 AM)


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SMigol
sage


Reged: 07/30/10

Loc: California, USA
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6081479 - 09/15/13 03:31 AM

I don't have a Canon t ring to measure against, but my Pentax one is 14.47mm from end to end.

Here are some images, hope these help to clarify. My wiggly hands trying to hold the gauge and my camera at the same time makes accuracy a bit of a challenge.

Pentax T ring:


OAG with T ring:


OAG with Canon ring:


OAG with the Canon ring at shoulder:


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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: SMigol]
      #6081490 - 09/15/13 04:02 AM

Thanks Stephen!

It is what I was thinking - 19.22

That Canon bayonet really seems to stick out from the main body compared to the T2 ring pic. That must be where the extra 2.5mm is coming from? Wish I had one in my hands, but alas, the Orion store is across the Country from me!

Just measured the thickness from the bayonet "Face" as you did and got 11mm! A 4mm difference from the Orion OAG. That should have also been a 2.5 difference so I don't know what that's all about

I think I need to just buy one......

Anyway, thank for those awesome pics. That was above and beyond!

Edited by Wmacky (09/15/13 04:15 AM)


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Thirteen
sage


Reged: 07/12/13

Loc: Milford, Michigan
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6081665 - 09/15/13 08:31 AM

Sorry a little confused anout those measurements above? I am assuming when set up in place of a standard canon t adapter, the face to face measurement is the length that would be added to the imaging train. Does the thin OAG have the female T2 threads internal to the body? Or is that another adapter that needs to be added?

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Raginar
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Re: New Orion "thin" OAG new [Re: Thirteen]
      #6081779 - 09/15/13 10:05 AM

I think if you read the manual it states that its just slightly bigger by 2.5mm or so.

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SMigol
sage


Reged: 07/30/10

Loc: California, USA
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG [Re: Raginar]
      #6083133 - 09/16/13 01:13 AM

There are T threads on the telescope side that are integral to the device - although these can be removed with a spanner to reveal a different thread, not sure what that size.

On the camera side, there are no integral threads. Instead, there are two different adapters, one is a T thread and one is a Canon mount. The Canon mount is slightly longer than the T thread.

Hope this helps.


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Thirteen
sage


Reged: 07/12/13

Loc: Milford, Michigan
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG [Re: SMigol]
      #6083491 - 09/16/13 09:23 AM

Yes...helps somewhat. I am just confused when looking at the manual for the TOAG, it said the thickness was 10.5, where you measured 15.07. Not sure where that 4.5mm is. The face-down side of your OAG doesn't look flat to the table, which is why I asked about the threads. The manual states the step down ring is from M48 to T thread, does this add that 4.5mm backfocus length?

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Midnight Dan
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Re: New Orion "thin" OAG [Re: Thirteen]
      #6083591 - 09/16/13 10:21 AM

The measurements in the photos above are end-to-end. Most vendors advertise "thickness" as how much it adds to the imaging chain (i.e. how much backfocus it eats up), NOT the end to end measurement.

When installed, one end or the other will have threads, or a bayonet, which will be internal to the mating component and will therefore not add anything to the imaging chain length.

-Dan


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SMigol
sage


Reged: 07/30/10

Loc: California, USA
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG [Re: Midnight Dan]
      #6083791 - 09/16/13 11:58 AM

Yes, the M48 to T thread adapter on the telescope side of the OAG does add some thickness. It appears to be about 2.5mm. I don't have a lens spanner wrench, so I can't remove it to measure more directly. If you had a system that could use that thread size, then you'd be able to reduce the length accordingly.

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Wmacky
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Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG [Re: SMigol]
      #6084594 - 09/16/13 07:51 PM

Quote:

Yes, the M48 to T thread adapter on the telescope side of the OAG does add some thickness. It appears to be about 2.5mm. I don't have a lens spanner wrench, so I can't remove it to measure more directly. If you had a system that could use that thread size, then you'd be able to reduce the length accordingly.




So 2.5 on the Tele side, and another 2.5 on the camera side when using the EOS adapter gets us to the over 15mm mark.

That makes it quite a bit thicker than a standard T-ring. I would be connecting to a C8 Edge T adapter that gives the proper backfocus with a normal T-ring. I'm thinking this won't work.
I believe the TOAG9 comes closer to the proper size. Of course it's double the price, and reported to be less than robust. The Lacerta Is more robust, but I believe it suffers again from the extra thickness issue!

Decisions, decisions.............


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Thirteen
sage


Reged: 07/12/13

Loc: Milford, Michigan
Re: New Orion "thin" OAG [Re: Wmacky]
      #6084892 - 09/16/13 10:17 PM

Interested in your course because I am looking at it for the same purpose (Edgehd 8). I also am quite new to all this so don't know how much an extra 4.5 mm really matters. I was considering pairing this with the .7x focal reducer. The celestron info sheet says to stay within 1-3mm of backfocus specs or stars will elongate at edge of field. Basically I was hoping to use this in place of my t ring, but I am hesitating now. I would love to see this measured as-installed to see the actual impact to the imaging chain length. Orion claims 10.5mm, but that's not what I see here.

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