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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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Thomas Karpf
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/09/09

Loc: Newington, CT
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #6049104 - 08/27/13 03:32 PM

Quote:

Zip ties are another mounting option. They can hold a Telrad base quite firmly if you can find them long enough to fit round the tube. I have used them on a 5 inch diameter tube to hold a telrad base. You can get black ones about 3/8 inch wide at Lowes.




You don't need to find zip ties long enough; just string them together: male end of #1 goes in female end of #2, etc.


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terraclarke
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Thomas Karpf]
      #6049157 - 08/27/13 04:02 PM

That's a good Idea Tom, I never thought of that. I am thinking of putting a Telrad on my 6 inch F4.5 reflector, but don't want to mess up my powercoating with the Telrad tape so I will just string two together for each of the two bands.

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6049308 - 08/27/13 05:12 PM

I sympathize. Personally, I find the discomfort of straight-through finders too miserable to bear when sighting over 40 degrees altitude. I like right-angles. This is purely personal. Many folks have no trouble with discomfort, and much prefer what they find to be the intuitive workings of straight-throughs.

With all the good advice on how to mount a finder without scratching your tube, you needn't worry about causing any damage. As far as being inauthentic in mounting a right-angle finder, don't worry. Anything removable that works for you and keeps you comfortable is fair game. Adding a right-angle finder is something a customizer might have done back in the day anyway.

Perhaps you could find a vintage right-angle finder. I was thrilled to find a vintage, orange University Optics 8x50 right-angle finder for one of my orange C8s. The other may get a blue Meade 9x50 of the similar vintage (slightly newer), or even just a modern Orion. No way will the original 6x30 straight-through remain, other than in safekeeping for posterity. My neck says, "No!"

If you can use a straight-through briefly without discomfort, try sighting down the tube prior to sighting with the finder. With a little practice, you may be able to get the object into the finder first try nearly every time. Then, tweak it into the crosshairs, and you're done.


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youngamateur42
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: La Verne, CA
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: bierbelly]
      #6049466 - 08/27/13 07:06 PM

To answer your question this scope is not intended as a museum piece but rather the main telescope I use, so I want it to have the most practical finding devices which I think are the 50mm finder and telrad/equivalent. Now that I know that the telrad tape is removable without messing up the tube, that's definitely an oprion to consider. Someone mentioned how the holes drilled for the original finder are often cracked; thank you, I have heard this tube material gets brittle over time and can crack or break. Someone else suggested I find a vintage 50mm finder; I've seen lots of this type of vintage finder for sale before, but when I restored the scope, I repainted the tube with a slightly yellow tinge to the paint, see here:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=classics&...

So I like to have things matching, so I think I might paint the finder I made with the same color and add that same black trim to the front of it.

Still have to make a plate that will fit the existing holes and make rings to attach the finder, so I've definitely got some things to do!


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Mr Magoo
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: Indiana
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: DAVIDG]
      #6049999 - 08/28/13 02:03 AM

Quote:

Another trick to point the scope at a bright star that is near the object you wantt to observing and make sure the circles read the correct RA and DEC of that star the move the scope to cooridinates of the object you want to observe.

- Dave




That is exactly how I use mine.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Mr Magoo]
      #6050011 - 08/28/13 02:25 AM Attachment (7 downloads)

Okay, I'm going to be the one that goes against the grain here. If you plan on keeping it forever, then do what you want with it to further enjoy using it!

Here's a pic of the top end of my 8" Cave f/7 I bought new when I was 15. I still have it and it's been through many different configurations and I don't care about purists because I'm always going to keep it.

I say, modify your scope any way you want! Better to use it than get disappointed at it for its limitations that could be taken care of.

For me, it was prime focus photography and involved installing a short focuser and tube weights to handle the camera's weight. If I didn't do that, sure, I'd have a nice "specimen" but I wanted to use the scope and that's what I did!


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Mirzam]
      #6050641 - 08/28/13 12:46 PM

Probably the most secure ,yet reversible, would be the use of metal hose clamps with felt or other padding.

I understand the reluctance to make permanent changes and ruin the value to collectors.

Yet was the telescope made to be looked through or looked at?

How many would have had nerve to tell Clyde Tombaugh his portable homemade 9" reflector on a lawn mower base "wasn't professional enough"?


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Chuck Hards
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/03/10

Loc: The Great Basin
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Mirzam]
      #6050667 - 08/28/13 01:01 PM

When you used a right-angle finder, was it a correct-image diagonal, or simply a mirror or right-angle prism, which would reverse the image? Try the correct-image diagonal and it may make things easier for you.

The nice thing about a right-angle finder is that if built right, you can use it straight-through, as well. Here is a home-made finder I built in '98, that uses a 35mm binocular objective and all plastic construction. The eyepiece is an old Edmund 1-1/8" f.l. Plossl, with a surplus cross-hair reticle installed at the focal plane. I turned some retaining rings from PVC and secured them with a thin fillet of white silicone around the end. It is removeable if I ever desire to do so.

Right-angle configuration:


Straight-through configuration:


The modified eyepiece:


35mm not enough aperture for you? Here's one with a 55mm objective, also convertable from right-angle to straight-through:


And I like JimC's suggestion of attaching the red-dot sight directly to the optical finder. Some commercial reflex sights are very small and would fit just fine. It would probably be easier than attaching it to the main OTA.


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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Chuck Hards]
      #6050894 - 08/28/13 03:19 PM

Chuck.. That is exactly like my old finder down to the Edmund 1 1/8 EP. Mine was 35mm too but had a metal tube...

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Chuck Hards
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/03/10

Loc: The Great Basin
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: bremms]
      #6051084 - 08/28/13 05:08 PM

Quote:

Chuck.. That is exactly like my old finder down to the Edmund 1 1/8 EP. Mine was 35mm too but had a metal tube...




Both the 35mm bino objective and that great old Edmund eyepiece are perfect finder components...I'm not surprised that the two of us came up with essentially the same finder independantly. Great minds think alike!

That was during my "PVC" phase. I turned the bino objective cell down in the lathe until it was a slip-fit inside the PVC tube, then just glued it in. The objective itself is still removeable by just unscrewing the retaining ring.

I still use PVC for some parts because it machines easily and is available in pipe and sheet, up to 1-1/2" thick. But I've been using aluminum more and more in the intervening years.

Note the storm-door screen insert retainer screw used as a thumbscrew in the PVC tailpiece. I got a box of them at the hardware store before I found them in Nylon at McMaster-Carr. I stuck a small Teflon plug in the setscrew hole so the aluminum screw itself doesn't mar the eyepiece/extension tube/diagonal barrel, it just bears against the Teflon, which in turn bears against the eyepiece or whatever.


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actionhac
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: Seattle
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Chuck Hards]
      #6052433 - 08/29/13 12:15 PM Attachment (7 downloads)

I bought this scope yesterday and someone did have some issues with the Telrad tape.

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Chuck Hards
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/03/10

Loc: The Great Basin
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: actionhac]
      #6052439 - 08/29/13 12:17 PM

Wow, looks like it was left in the gerbil cage!

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terraclarke
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: Chuck Hards]
      #6052497 - 08/29/13 12:46 PM

I have heard similar horror stories about getting Telrad tape off. Some say it comes off easier if you heat it with a hair dryer. The only way I would attach one is with screws in existing tube holes or straps. I think the tape is only good for attaching felt and then I wonder if the adhesive wouldn't seep through the fabric over time and discolor the underlying paint or otherwist affect the finish. Like spray on expandible foam, use with extreme caution!

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bierbelly
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/23/04

Loc: Sterling, VA
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: actionhac]
      #6052563 - 08/29/13 01:26 PM

Quote:

I bought this scope yesterday and someone did have some issues with the Telrad tape.




Well, on a paper tube...I don't suppose you have too many options. Certainly can't screw mount it. Probably the zip ties would be the best solution, or the hose clamps.


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actionhac
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: Seattle
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: bierbelly]
      #6052808 - 08/29/13 03:32 PM Attachment (5 downloads)

I have a feeling what happened the Telrad struck something and was ripped from the tube. The tube covering skin let go rather than the tape. The tube skin was then "grafted" back on with glue, probably between tears and passing in and out of consciousness by someone and it left the Telrad at such an angle that it was not possible to align it with the telescope.
I cut away all the mess and painted the area with a closely matching paint, I will try and sand the fuzzies off and recoat in 24hrs. What a disaster.


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bierbelly
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/23/04

Loc: Sterling, VA
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: actionhac]
      #6054136 - 08/30/13 10:41 AM

Quote:

I have a feeling what happened the Telrad struck something and was ripped from the tube. The tube covering skin let go rather than the tape. The tube skin was then "grafted" back on with glue, probably between tears and passing in and out of consciousness by someone and it left the Telrad at such an angle that it was not possible to align it with the telescope.
I cut away all the mess and painted the area with a closely matching paint, I will try and sand the fuzzies off and recoat in 24hrs. What a disaster.




Really now? Did it affect the optics? Of course not. Look at it as more of a "war wound", something to be appreciated in the future.

PS, there's always duct tape. Perhaps we will one day find a place in our collective hearts for a good, beater telescope, like many motorcycle enthusiasts have for Rat Bikes.

Edited by bierbelly (08/30/13 10:43 AM)


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Chuck Hards
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/03/10

Loc: The Great Basin
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: bierbelly]
      #6054285 - 08/30/13 11:55 AM

Quote:

Look at it as more of a "war wound", something to be appreciated in the future.

PS, there's always duct tape. Perhaps we will one day find a place in our collective hearts for a good, beater telescope, like many motorcycle enthusiasts have for Rat Bikes.




Good observation.

The very first "classic" Dob I built, circa 1982 or so, was a 10" f/5.6 built around a Coulter mirror. Cardboard tube, plywood box. That scope was campaigned hard for years before it was just too beat-up to even stay collimated. Didn't matter, it performed just the same as BN right up until the end.
I still have the optics and all the components of that old thing, remounted in a fiberglass scope, but there are times when I miss it in it's original configuration. I never had to worry about scratches or dings when using it.


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Ravenous
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: UK
Re: Ruining the nostalgia? new [Re: youngamateur42]
      #6054360 - 08/30/13 12:38 PM

I see a few people have mentioned the Rigel Quikfinder. I use one on my scope (70mm short refractor) quite often - I use a few big rubber bands to hold its shoe onto the dew shield, so no mess. It's also pretty light weight so holds there OK. I its window stands a reasonable distance from the tube, so it's about as neck friendly as a straight through arrangement can get.

I've never tried the telrad, but I gather it's heavier... though cable ties will do of course.

Alternatively, I wonder if you could get a single tube ring to fit your RV-6, paint it nicely, and fit it at the front of the tube. Then somehow put a 50mm finder and rings onto that... it would be pretty solid and should come off easily...


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terraclarke
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Ruining the nostalgia?- A noninvasive fix new [Re: Ravenous]
      #6056013 - 08/31/13 12:59 PM Attachment (4 downloads)

Here's a simple non-invasive fix that I used on my vintage 6inch F4.5 reflector. The Telrad base has dense felt strips stuck to the Telrad tape. The Telrad base is held in place with 18 inch zip ties. Two were strung together for each band. It's quite firm, easily adjustable and just as easily removable without harm to the tube.

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terraclarke
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Ruining the nostalgia?- A noninvasive fix new [Re: terraclarke]
      #6056015 - 08/31/13 12:59 PM Attachment (4 downloads)

2

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