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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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RTLR 12
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6051915 - 08/29/13 04:15 AM

Quote:

integer gearboxes and drive software that avoids the cogging issue




Chris,

It's 'integer gears' not gearboxes. The integer gears only matter with PEC, so PEC and integer gears go together. Also, I wasn't aware of a cogging problem on the CG-5. These are only issues if you are doing AP. I do like the RTC thing though. I use my CG-5's for visual mainly, but I much prefer to use them over my CGEM's. I'm just wondering if I need to get an AVX or not.

I know you have both mounts, but why do you say the AVX is sturdier than the CG-5? I know the AVX weighs about 5 lbs more, but they both use the same tripod (Similar).

Stan


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #6051929 - 08/29/13 04:40 AM

Quote:

I know you have both mounts, but why do you say the AVX is sturdier than the CG-5? I know the AVX weighs about 5 lbs more, but they both use the same tripod (Similar).



Experience...
Looking at the two mounts side by side.
Using them both. I find the AVX much easier to set up for guiding and imaging. It also feels more sturdy, both in operation and set up.

I have, to some extent, put my money where my mouth is and bought a RC6 for the AVX. By the time I've added a guide scope, cameras, focuser and filterwheel that comes to around 25 lbs, more if I add a rotator. The AVX handles that well. I haven't tried the CG5 with it but don't think it would.

There's not been much imaging this summer, I ended up spending the whole time playing with the StarSense.

Chris


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orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6051940 - 08/29/13 05:04 AM

There are stories out there that the CG-5 also suffers cogging.

But see - the thing is cogging looks exactly like stiction. And, thanks to the lack of ball bearings on the DEC axis, the CG-5 generally has a good dosage of stiction. Which would mask the cogging...

But I digress.

If I had only one mount for 10 years, and the choice was the CG-5 and AVX, the latter would be a no-brainer.


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Seanem44
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 09/22/11

Loc: Woodbridge, VA
Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6051948 - 08/29/13 05:20 AM

We'll see what I can cough up. I still have some toys I can sell. Most likely the astrotrac. Just need to hope the wife or I do not get furloughed in the coming fiscal year.

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RTLR 12
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: Seanem44]
      #6052083 - 08/29/13 08:31 AM

Chris,

Thanks for the answer. I guess I'll just have to jump in and get an AVX and see for myself. I'm guessing the extra stability must be due to the extra weight. Why is the AVX easier to set up?

Orlando,

Don't both the AVX and the CG-5 share the same "no bearings' design. If I remember correctly, I think I saw a disassembled AVX axis shafts looking exactly like a CG-5.

Stan


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frito
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/05/12

Loc: Fremont, CA
Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6053704 - 08/30/13 01:24 AM

Quote:

There are stories out there that the CG-5 also suffers cogging.

But see - the thing is cogging looks exactly like stiction. And, thanks to the lack of ball bearings on the DEC axis, the CG-5 generally has a good dosage of stiction. Which would mask the cogging...

But I digress.

If I had only one mount for 10 years, and the choice was the CG-5 and AVX, the latter would be a no-brainer.




and guess what, the AVX like the CG-5 STILL has a ball bearing-less DEC axis! I can't say for certain as i have not yet needed to delve into my DEC axis on my CG-5 but i'd be willing to say rebuilding it with better teflon bearings and grease and a bit of work on the metal will result in AVX like performance on the CG-5 as after all the AVX is essential an improved and updated CG-5


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: frito]
      #6053763 - 08/30/13 03:04 AM

The Celestron engineers are fairly bright and, believe it or not, thought about this. They understand more about what is going on with their mount than the majority of the denizens of CN.

They designed a solution to this which does not require fitting ball bearings instead of using a plain bearing. It doesn't require you to spend hundreds of dollars on additional bearings, or pay for hypertuning. None the less it solves the dec guiding problems that people were having with the CG5.

Chris


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frito
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/05/12

Loc: Fremont, CA
Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6053766 - 08/30/13 03:15 AM

Quote:

The Celestron engineers are fairly bright and, believe it or not, thought about this. They understand more about what is going on with their mount than the majority of the denizens of CN.

They designed a solution to this which does not require fitting ball bearings instead of using a plain bearing. It doesn't require you to spend hundreds of dollars on additional bearings, or pay for hypertuning. None the less it solves the dec guiding problems that people were having with the CG5.

Chris




I'm not disputing that they improved the design I'm simply pointing out that the poor design at its heart still exists and if one is inclined a CG-5 can be reworked at little cost to someone who is mechanically inclined to be improved as well on many aspects beyond the DEC axis.

at the end of the day it still stands you pay ~400 for a used CG-5 knowing its flaws and that it can be improved with time and money spent. or you spend 700-800 on an AVX knowing its basically an already improved version of the CG-5. I still stand by my opinion that if you are prepared to spend that much for an AVX you should stop for a moment and think about buying a used Sirius or Atlas mount, mounts that do not have the drawbacks of the CG-5 and possibly the AVX. i would take a used Sirius mount over a new AVX any day, its a better mount head design, its only drawback is the smaller tripod it comes with and that is easily remedied by getting a 2" tripod off a CG-5 and similar mounts. for 1k you can get an Atlas and your golden for many applications. one day years from now when there are AVX's all over the place they will be sold used for 500-600 dollars and at that point i can see telling people that yes its worth the extra 100, maybe 200 over the cost of a used CG-5 but today in my opinion its not when you consider for the price of the AVX you can get an overall better mount design used for the same or slightly more cost.


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: Are savings on a CG-5 ASGT worth not getting AVX? new [Re: frito]
      #6053836 - 08/30/13 05:08 AM

Go and get a CG5, just don't come back whining about it having problems or features that are available or fixed on the AVX.

Chris


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