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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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David E
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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: vahe]
      #6065764 - 09/06/13 08:59 AM

Quote:

I hate to be the skeptic, but any astronomy book that deals with currently produced products will be outdated in short order,...

Vahe




True, but this book is really not a clone of "Star Ware."
Bill comprehensively covers all subjects related (and maybe some unrelated) to eyepieces. Many things about eyepieces will never change: the laws of optics for example.


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David E
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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: David E]
      #6065777 - 09/06/13 09:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I hate to be the skeptic, but any astronomy book that deals with currently produced products will be outdated in short order,...

Vahe




True, but this book is really not a clone of "Star Ware."
Bill comprehensively covers all subjects related (and maybe some unrelated) to eyepieces. Many things about eyepieces will never change: the laws of optics for example.




One more thing: although there are professional astronomers out there, astronomy has been and always will be about us amateurs. There is no other field of science I can think of where amateurs contribute so much. That fact is summed up on the back cover. (You can read that on Amazon.com.) In fact, many people from this very forum have contributed to Bill's effort in one way or another, directly or indirectly.

edit: removed what probably would be a TOS violation.

Edited by David E (09/06/13 09:34 AM)


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FirstSight
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Reged: 12/26/05

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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: vahe]
      #6065797 - 09/06/13 09:53 AM

Quote:

I hate to be the skeptic, but any astronomy book that deals with currently produced products will be outdated in short order, Phil Harrington Star Ware is just one example of such effort, books simply can not compete with Internet, unless the author is planning on continuous updates to keep up with the newer offerings.

Vahe




Dickinson and Dyer's "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" proves that it is possible to approach writing about astronomical equipment in a manner that is durably useful and valuable, despite the progressive accumulation of new equipment offerings since publication of its last edition. The current state of telescopic eyepieces is especially suitable for being presented in a durably useful way. This is in part because the current state of the art is hitting up against some fundamental limits, for example in how far AFOV can be extended without creating unmanageable bulk or edge aberrations (to say nothing of enormous ramp-up in expense). Improvements in coating technology from this point on will be more incremental than fundamental. Creating complex widefield eyepeices with light transmission, sharpness, and minimization of aberrations approaching extremely close to that of "simpler" limited AFOV glass is an established achievement at this point (Not close enough for Brandon or ortho purists, but more than close enough, negligibly close for the tastes of a great many others). There really hasn't been any truly revolutionary eyepiece developments since TeleVue's Ethos, followed up by the almost-as-good but much-less-expensive (and plenty good enough for many people's tastes) Explore Scientific eyepieces. In short, unless there is a massive unforeseen switch-over to electronic eyepieces/video astronomy in the next five to ten years, the information in Bill Paolini's book will likely remain a useful reference, even if new modest variants of existing eyepiece designs come out, just as Dickenson/Dyer's "Backyard Astronomer's Guide" remains a useful well of information, even though there's nominally a lot of new stuff since the last edition.

I do agree that the majority of astronomical equipment books are written with an approach that does too-quickly date the usefulness of information contained therein, and that it takes skill and quite a bit of thoughtfulness to write a book whose information is durably valuable even against the constant evolution of fresh internet sources. I'm simply pointing out by example that it IS possible to to write such a book about astro equipment; we'll just have to see over time the extent to which Bill Paolini has succeeded in doing so with his new book.


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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: t.r.]
      #6065854 - 09/06/13 10:34 AM

Quote:

I think the premise of Bill's book is as an eyepiece "primer" not a buyer's guide that will go out of date, illustrating that this oft-overlooked part of the optical chain really has as much merit as the optics in the scope themselves...a philosophy to which I subscribe. I think by "Choosing" the title implies the type more than the brand and "Using" certainly draws emphasis toward how those types perform at various purposes.




The title is more or less a restricted (or strongly suggested) item by the publisher as it needs to fit within the constraints of their series. I personally feel that there are things which will never change or go out of date as they have to do with history or formulas on how things work and how they are perceived when viewing (like how AFOV and TFOV affects the view), and then the desk reference section which lists over 200 popular current and discontinued lines with their data tables, marketing claims, and association with other similar performing lines so the user can look at one line and have instant reference to what other of the 200+ listed perform in the same class (the buyers guide aspect of the book). So this buyers guide will go out of date, but given how fast the market seems to be slugging along these days, not significantly. I would say that maybe at the 3 or 4 year point it will be time to update the work documenting the new lines that have come available. My hope is that the book will get enough traction so that the publisher will want to do second printings and such to keep it updated with the market.


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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: Hothersale]
      #6065856 - 09/06/13 10:36 AM

Quote:

Wow, looks fantastic, Bill!

A few minutes ago, EVERY page in the book was available to preview on Amazon.ca, but now most of the pages have been restricted. (I may have noticed an error on Page 18 -- the WO UWAN AFOV listed as 20 degrees -- but I can't see that page anymore so I can't be sure. Might want to double check that, Bill.)




Unfortunately, no review is perfect so sure there will be a few glitches here and there. As people find them, please do send me a personal message so I can get them all documented for corrections.


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buddyjesus
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Reged: 07/07/10

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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: t.r.]
      #6066055 - 09/06/13 12:32 PM

Just another reason to buy the next edition!

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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: buddyjesus]
      #6066205 - 09/06/13 01:55 PM

Thinking about all the car recalls and firmware updates and operating system patches...one would not own anything?

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Jeff Morgan
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: FirstSight]
      #6066499 - 09/06/13 04:30 PM

Quote:

The current state of telescopic eyepieces is especially suitable for being presented in a durably useful way. This is in part because the current state of the art is hitting up against some fundamental limits, for example in how far AFOV can be extended without creating unmanageable bulk or edge aberrations (to say nothing of enormous ramp-up in expense). Improvements in coating technology from this point on will be more incremental than fundamental.




The idea that the primary measure of an eyepiece is AFOV is a fast Dob/Newt owner affectation. A large number of scopes sold today (namely refractors and SCT's) are not very fast at all really, and perform quite well with the older designs. As the saying goes, an old Ferrari is still a Ferrari. There are a lot of great older eyepieces that will continue to turn up on the used market for generations. A reference source for those eyepieces would be very valuable indeed.

Quote:

Creating complex widefield eyepeices with light transmission, sharpness, and minimization of aberrations approaching extremely close to that of "simpler" limited AFOV glass is an established achievement at this point (Not close enough for Brandon or ortho purists, but more than close enough, negligibly close for the tastes of a great many others). There really hasn't been any truly revolutionary eyepiece developments since TeleVue's Ethos, followed up by the almost-as-good but much-less-expensive (and plenty good enough for many people's tastes) Explore Scientific eyepieces.




I would have to agree with you that for the DSO enthusiast whose forays into planetary or double star observing are occasional and brief, the Delos indeed gives you 90% of what premium simple glass does - close enough as you say. I consider myself one of those "purists" and could make due with Delos in a pinch.

Matters of degree are of course subjective, but I would go further and say that Delos is probably a big a step forward from Ethos as Ethos was over Nagler, and observing reports continue to pop up on the forum finding the same. For optical eyepieces, perhaps the only place left to go are designs customized to a specific telescope optical system.

Quote:

In short, unless there is a massive unforeseen switch-over to electronic eyepieces/video astronomy in the next five to ten years ...




Well, the track record of betting against the electronics revolution over the past 30 years hasn't been very good, has it?

With the advantages of magnitude reach, color, direct vision, and insensitivity to light pollution, how much does resolution and integration times of electronic sensors have to improve to kick-off that revolution? In fact, no need to limit the display screen to the size of an eyepiece barrel, just have a wire leading to a screen. The Mallicam crowd may already be leading the way.


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Schaden
sage


Reged: 06/30/08

Loc: Sonoran Desert
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6066566 - 09/06/13 05:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:



I would have to agree with you that for the DSO enthusiast whose forays into planetary or double star observing are occasional and brief, the Delos indeed gives you 90% of what premium simple glass does - close enough as you say. I consider myself one of those "purists" and could make due with Delos in a pinch.

Matters of degree are of course subjective, but I would go further and say that Delos is probably a big a step forward from Ethos as Ethos was over Nagler,





So for planetary, delos>ethos>Nagler ? With delos being 90% as good as premium minimal glass ep. Does that mean ZAO, Pentax XO, etc only or do you think a TV plossl is better than delos for planetary contrast/details ?


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desertlens
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/06/10

Loc: 36N 105W
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6066621 - 09/06/13 06:02 PM

Quote:

With the advantages of magnitude reach, color, direct vision, and insensitivity to light pollution, how much does resolution and integration times of electronic sensors have to improve to kick-off that revolution?




A little innovation in pricing might be helpful. With the Collins I3 at $3K and the Mallincam at $1.5K (without the display) it would seem that this market will stay small for now. This stuff is expensive at both ends (supply and demand).


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David E
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Reged: 05/25/06

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: desertlens]
      #6067553 - 09/07/13 10:39 AM

Just got an email from Amazon, mine's been shipped!


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george tatsis
professor emeritus
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Reged: 11/20/08

Loc: Flushing, NY - Europe
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: David E]
      #6067612 - 09/07/13 11:16 AM

Quote:

Just got an email from Amazon, mine's been shipped!





Mine too!


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Jeff Morgan
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: Schaden]
      #6067672 - 09/07/13 11:49 AM

Quote:

So for planetary, delos>ethos>Nagler ? With delos being 90% as good as premium minimal glass ep. Does that mean ZAO, Pentax XO, etc only or do you think a TV plossl is better than delos for planetary contrast/details ?




I sold off my last TeleVue plossl about 15 years ago (for Celestron Ultimas), while they were adequate they never struck me as special. I have not done the plossl/Delos comparison.

The minimal glass I was referring to were Brandons in this post. (Jump down to #5179553.)

Since then I have been acquiring Astro-Physics SPL's and TMB Monocentrics, but I have not had adequate opportunity for comparison. Perhaps the Brandons will go the way of the Tele Vue plossls?

It will be interesting to see what Bill's book has to say about them.


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Jeff Morgan
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: desertlens]
      #6067693 - 09/07/13 12:01 PM

Quote:

A little innovation in pricing might be helpful. With the Collins I3 at $3K and the Mallincam at $1.5K (without the display) it would seem that this market will stay small for now. This stuff is expensive at both ends (supply and demand).




I think many or most of us have a similar or larger investment in conventional eyepieces. (I'm reluctant to total up the value in my two cases - ignorance is bliss.)

Presumably, if/when the electronic eyepiece comes it would replace most of a conventional set. Changing image scale (if desired) would be done with a couple of focal reducers.


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mgb
sage
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Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Montreal, Qc... Canada
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #6067734 - 09/07/13 12:33 PM

Say what Amazon Canada ?
____________________________________________________________
Hello from Amazon.ca.

We wanted to let you know there's a delay with one or more items in the order you placed on August 12, 2013.

Paolini, William "Choosing and Using Astronomical Eyepieces"
Estimated ship date: March 03, 2014

____________________________________________________________

I guess it must be the stupid canadian copyright laws or some dumb market protectionism thing at work again... Who knows ? but nonetheless it doesn't make sense.

By the way the Kindle version on amazon.ca is available for download... ya right.

And another strange thing, the canadian papeback price on Amazon.ca (if it was available) is listed at $ 37.92. And on Amazon.com (USA) is listed at $ 42.74. Another nonsense !

Go Canada ! Go !!!


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Tamiji Homma
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Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: California, USA
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: Jim Curry]
      #6068184 - 09/07/13 05:12 PM

USPS delivered the book.

Congrats, Bill.

Tammy


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Lew Zealand
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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: george tatsis]
      #6068190 - 09/07/13 05:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Just got an email from Amazon, mine's been shipped!




Mine too!




<checks email, sees one from Amazon sent last night> Woo-hoo, mine shipped too!


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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: Lew Zealand]
      #6068844 - 09/08/13 02:38 AM

Will be getting my hard-copy when a buddy returns from the US with the hand-carried book.

The book is also available electronically via internet (a little cheaper), i.e. through Kindle - allows one to download a longer version of sample pages, including EP historical beginnings, basic function, physical construction, optical construction, optical design characteristics, AFOV, eye relief, exit pupil behavior, internal reflctions and "Ghosting," aberrations (including distortions), choosing eyepieces and observing strategies, viewing comfort & usability considerations, construction and mechanical features. These items will hardly get outdated.

Just by going through these samplings which are all so well-written & crafted with pertinent illustrations, will wager that Bill's book will become the definitive EP book, something like the Nexstar book by Mike Swanson, or the SCT books by Uncle Rod Mollise; Bill Paolini's seminal EP book will probably turn out to be the eyepiece bible book.

PS: If one has an Amazon account, it's easy to register with Kindle (download of the Kindle app is free) using the smartphone (mine's an Android), where they send a sample pages copy of the book upon request.

Best,


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kkokkolis
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Loc: Piraeus, Greece
Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: ibase]
      #6069017 - 09/08/13 08:21 AM

I arranged that I get an ES82 14 and made an agreement for a future purchase of an ES82 30 from a astro buddy. This way my eyepiece case will be full up to the limit (with the 30mm pending) before I get the book. I filled my smaller case with all cables, power adaptors and controls for my Nexstar, so there's no room there also. I also got the "Just for Today" and 12 steps books by my pillow to get inspiration.
You are not going to force me to buy more eyepieces easily Bill Paolini!


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Sarkikos
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Re: Bill Paolini's book on EP's is out! new [Re: kkokkolis]
      #6069494 - 09/08/13 01:16 PM

My copy has shipped and is due to arrive Sept. 11th.

Mike


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