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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Beginning and Intermediate Imaging

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070337 - 09/08/13 10:04 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

Now make sure your cloned image of M33 is selected. Then click the blue check mark on the Histogram Transformation window (if you mouse over it, it will say Track View). You should now have something that looks like this:

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070342 - 09/08/13 10:09 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

Now reset the STF screen to the defaults (no stretch). You do that with the Reset button on the bottom right of the ScreenTransferFunction window (it is next to the blue checkmark and looks like a cross). Make sure you do this on the STF window and not the HistogramTransformation window since it has those icons too.

Then get a preview of your histogram transformation by clicking the blue circle icon on the bottom left of the HistogramTranformation Window.

You should now get a real-time preview image:


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070349 - 09/08/13 10:14 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

What we want to accomplish is we want to only do deconvolution on the bright parts of the image and not on any of the darker background.

This is one place where clipping the darks is a GOOD thing.

Go ahead and apply the histogram transformation to the cloned image of M33 that we will be using as a mask. Delete the real-time preview and then drag the bottom left triangle of the HistogramTransformation over the the cloned image.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070364 - 09/08/13 10:21 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

We have not clipped the darks nearly as much as I want.

Again using the real-time preview, drag the left slider on the HistogramTransformation over until things look more like this.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070365 - 09/08/13 10:23 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Here is a view of the HistogramTranformation window.

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070370 - 09/08/13 10:26 PM Attachment (14 downloads)

Now dismiss the real-time preview window and apply these settings to your clone of the M33 image. This will now serve as your mask. I save this as deconv_mask.

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070371 - 09/08/13 10:28 PM

All the bits are now ready for doing the deconvolution properly. I realize there are a lot of steps in doing this, but with practice, it becomes easier and more natural.

This is a good place to leave off for the night.


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Jeff2011
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Reged: 01/01/13

Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6070915 - 09/09/13 09:48 AM

That is a bit more to the decon than what I am used to. With StarTools, I only set a mask for the stars and not the background. I have looked at the system requirements for PI and I will need replace my old clunker PC. It is time anyways. I have just been putting it off. In the mean time I have been processing your data with StarTools. The challenge is doing the scaling and the registration of the processed L and RGB images. DSS does not support scaling and I don't have PS, so I found out I could do it in good old IRIS. Look forward to seeing your complete process.

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Jeff2011]
      #6072929 - 09/10/13 10:36 AM

Yeah, deconvolution in StarTools is MUCH simpler. For those who have both, the temptation to transfer over into StarTools, and just do the deconvolution there definitely exists.

However, the results are very nice and controllable in PixInsight, if a bit (OK a lot) more work.

Edited by Madratter (09/10/13 10:37 AM)


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GRB
member


Reged: 08/24/10

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6073012 - 09/10/13 11:14 AM

Wow I need to read this through a few times and let things soak in. Since I am new to this, but this really is a great thread for learning thank you Madratter.

I need to go the free or inexpensive software route for now, equipment startup bills need to be paid.

What would you recommend? I am using DSS and CS2 right now.

Haven't done any gradient stuff yet. The Tutorial I saw used a purchased plugin for CS5.

Lots to learn but is should be fun.


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Jeff2011
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Reged: 01/01/13

Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6073051 - 09/10/13 11:33 AM

It does look like you have more control over the decon in PixInsight. At this stage in the processing, I don't think you can flip back and forth between StarTools since ST keeps track of the noise until the final noise reduction is done. If you flip back and forth, that noise tracking is lost, I think.

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Jeff2011]
      #6073088 - 09/10/13 11:55 AM

GRB, there are a bunch of free tools. FitsLiberator gets mentioned fairly often, although I haven't used it.

FitsLibererator web page

StarTools is inexpensive and is a great value. It is only 60$ Australian.

It can be tried for free. You just cannot save the files.

StarTools web page

Although I primarily use PixInsight, I bought StarTools after I already had PixInsight, so that tells you I was pretty impressed with it. I liked some of the tools enough I thought it was a worthwhile addition to my tool chest.

DSS you already have and I have played with that. It is a good tool.

Jeff: It is no trouble going back and forth between PixInsight And StarTools at this stage. Once things are no longer linear, that is a different story.

You would simply save the PixInsight file as Tiff 16 bit with no compression. You then bring it into StarTools, do the deconvolution, and save as Tiff. You do lose some precision in the process because you have down converted from 32 bit floating point to 16 bit integer. But still it works well.

What IS true is that once you have stretched the data permanently (not just a Screen Transfer Function or [ctrl]a), StarTools will not be able to optimize its noise reduction. And processes like deconvolution that depend on linear data to work correctly will not work as well. You could still try importing the data and doing a reverse stretch which StarTools will try.

Edited by Madratter (09/10/13 12:01 PM)


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Jeff2011
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Reged: 01/01/13

Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6073106 - 09/10/13 12:06 PM

Hmmm. Perhaps my understanding is wrong. I thought that ST kept track of the noise after each operation while still in a linear state and that noise tracking was used when tracking was ended and the denoise was applied taking the image out of a linear state. Perhaps Ivo can clarify this. To me any operation done in PI can't be tracked by ST. Plus if you do some operations in ST and then leave ST, I think the noise tracking is lost for any operations done so far. I thought I saw Ivo mention this before either on his support site or a thread on CN. Again I could be completely wrong here. Also I am using his latest production version and not the Beta.

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Jeff2011]
      #6073113 - 09/10/13 12:12 PM

What you are saying is technically correct. That said, if you were to transfer over to StarTools and then continue on in StarTools after having done the cropping, and DBE in PixInsight, StarTools would still be able to track additional changes and would still optimize noise reduction better than if it got the image in a non-linear state.

BTW, the key word here is optimize. Even if you bring over a non-linear image, the noise reduction in StarTools will still work. In fact, I have done it.

Edited by Madratter (09/10/13 12:13 PM)


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Jeff2011
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Reged: 01/01/13

Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial [Re: Madratter]
      #6073144 - 09/10/13 12:27 PM

Ok, that makes sense. To take full advantage of the noise tracking in ST you would do all of the PI operations first and then finish in ST. By finish I mean take it to a non-linear state. I realize there can be more processing after that in either PI or ST.

In ST I usually do the initial noise reduction that ends tracking on the whole image with nothing masked off. Then if the background is still noisy, I do another noise reduction (now in a non-linear state) with the DSO masked off, so I can do a more aggressive noise reduction on the background.

This has been a great discussion. Thanks.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Jeff2011]
      #6074008 - 09/10/13 09:57 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

If you have saved your 4 files needed for deconvolution and are coming back to this like I am, it is time to load them again. You need the following:

1) The image of M33 we have been working on
2) The PSF image.
3) The star mask
4) The mask for protecting the background (deconv_mask)

Now you want to select the little tab that has the name of your deconv_mask (whatever you called it) and holding down the left mouse button, you want to drag it over to just below the tab with the name of your main image (in my case L_dbe). Then release the mouse button. This should apply the mask to your main image.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6074020 - 09/10/13 10:03 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

Alternatively, right click on your main image. This should bring up a menu. One of the items is Mask and it has a submenu. From there you can "Select Mask". Then you will get a little window that will let you choose from your various images of the right size for your mask. If you happen to love shortcuts, you can bypass all of that and get right to the mask selection window with [ctrl]m. Personally, I use the first method of dragging the little tab.

If you have done this correctly, your main image will now have a red overlay that gives you an idea of what is masked and what isn't.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6074026 - 09/10/13 10:09 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

That is great to know one is applied, but fortunately, we can turn off its display. To do this you can either use the mask menu or you can just use [ctrl]k. I use the later.

You can tell a mask is still applied because the tab of the image name will still be colored brown.

Now bring up the deconvolution process. Click on the tab saying external PSF. Then click the little box next to view identifier and select your PSF image.


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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6074030 - 09/10/13 10:12 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

Finally, expand the deringing settings and click on the checkbox to enable deringing. Set Global Dark to 0.0. Check the local deringing box. Click the box next to Local Support and select your star mask.

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Madratter
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Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Processing Messier 33 in PixInsight - A Tutorial new [Re: Madratter]
      #6074038 - 09/10/13 10:15 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Now under the Algorithm section, change the iterations to something more useful like 50. This is one parameter you might want to play with.

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