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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Film Astrophotography

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Achernar
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: orion61]
      #6055257 - 08/30/13 10:46 PM

Still have my Nikon F3HP and six lenses for it, including a 180mm F/2.8 ED telephoto lens. All are still functional, and as a young man I used them hard in floods, extreme cold and other challenging conditions. Haven't developed a single roll of film in over 20 years or made a print, but I would do it again in a second if I had the means to do so.

Taras


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jimegger
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/22/05

Loc: Palmer,Alaska
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Achernar]
      #6074380 - 09/11/13 04:00 AM

I had to chime in on this forum after reading all the comments on film versus digital. I spent many hundreds of hours shooting the night sky through many different telescopes in temperatures to -40 F with and without a cold camera and hypered film. After a night of shooting it was fun to set up the chemistry lab and do the processing the next day to see what had been accomplished. It was always fascinating to see how it all turned out. In the end I went digital with a Canon 20 da after all those years of film shooting. I do miss the film but have to say that being able to eliminate skyglow and bring out the details that are truly there via image processing has been just as much if not more fun and in the end less work without all the toxic chemicals that must in the end be properly disposed of. I do miss some of the aesthetics of film but digital has is own different set of aesthetics that are no more or less attractive in accomplishing the same end. I hope film never goes away and someone out there keeps carrying the torch for it, I just don't want to see it die and yet at the same time it won't be me carrying that torch. I may yet shoot some more film somewhere down the line and it would be good to know that it is still available and does the job.

Edited by jimegger (09/11/13 06:52 PM)


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film [Re: jimegger]
      #6075707 - 09/11/13 07:11 PM

Your comments are well appreciated and understood. We wish more people had this understanding. Film or digital should not separate us as astrophotographers. We each have our methods and preferences. There are artists who prefer oils, and those that use acrylic for paint. Yet they are still artists.

I must admit that it is becoming difficult - heck it is difficult with what's happening to film. An uphill battle regardless of equipment. But it seems to fade away when you crack a new roll of film and begin loading the camera. Stuck in the past - and liking it. Now if I could just find the hand crank I could start the car and head for town.

igor


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bluesteel
sage


Reged: 03/24/13

Loc: ILM
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6085181 - 09/17/13 01:36 AM

*Insert grumpy old man here, even though I am somewhat younger in astronomy circles*
Being a stickler for detail makes me think of several things, all pertaining to motion pictures...
The criterion collection and old 20's and 30's black and white films when remastered for the latest technology in televisions have more detail and contrast than any 1080p digital camera could dream of having. Old Charlie Chaplin films come to mind. Watching those cinema classics every time they are remastered floors me at the quality achieved many, many years earlier.

You can't remaster a pixel... A pixel is a pixel, even with line doublers and digital interpolation to make the picture "better". Your final result is your final result, and any additional pixels introduced to enhance or enlarge the original alters and detracts from the original image in my opinion.

Imax cameras use film, not digital storage cards. If that is not saying something, i don't know what will. Unfortunately, most projectors are digital now in theaters, with people operating them that do not even know how to properly focus the darn things. You never will get the true result of that massive negative area when played digitally. In 100 years time though, a remastering of an Imax film will probably knock the socks off the viewer for image contrast and clarity, just like the older black and white silent films do to me in this day and age.

I have to wholeheartedly agree with the way photography is going is like pop art when viewing it through the digital age. Garbage. Reminds me of the "art factories", which are the bane of painting art, and some of these new, digital photographic exhibits are laudable at best.
Now I am not saying that all digital is bad, we can all agree there are some phenomenal pictures being taken in astrophotography, as well as stills of the world around us. There just seems to be a lot less of any sort of thought process for a lot of the digital being produced, which will create an inferior product, no matter what the medium.

Now get off my lawn you whippersnapper!


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: bluesteel]
      #6089167 - 09/18/13 11:32 PM

Exactly right. I also prefer silver halide to a pixel. B&W photography enchants me far more than colour as well. Which begs the questions. Why does an acoustic guitar require amplification? Does an egg printed with a digital code taste any better than one with an analogue sticker on it? Is the electricity in my house any different now that the Smart Meter has replaced the dumb analogue meter? I have more questions, but this is a good start.

Igor


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bluesteel
sage


Reged: 03/24/13

Loc: ILM
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6092355 - 09/20/13 07:24 PM

Quote:

Why does an acoustic guitar require amplification?



To turn it up to 11!
Quote:

Does an egg printed with a digital code taste any better than one with an analogue sticker on it?



That is like asking if the chicken or egg came first... and obviously the egg came first because dinosaurs were laying them long before chickens were around! I would prefer a sticker to a laser burning my eggs pre-cooking them.
Quote:

Is the electricity in my house any different now that the Smart Meter has replaced the dumb analogue meter?



Yes, you have to pay for all you consume now, instead of adding a different "gear" to lessen the meter numbers


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: bluesteel]
      #6094160 - 09/21/13 09:58 PM

OK - last question, and if answered correctly you win the official digital state of affairs focusing tool for use with point and shoot cameras.

What other famous characters came from Frostbite Falls? No searching the web. If you are old enough - you will know the answer. Talk about highjacking a thread!


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6094836 - 09/22/13 10:57 AM

I won't give the answer, but I remember watching the show on those early Saturday mornings in the 70's when they were old reruns at that point.

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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6097305 - 09/23/13 07:16 PM

What reruns? I'm still watching them today. Like us - great stuff Jim. Another dark cycle almost upon us. Hope you get out for some frames my friend.

igor


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6097379 - 09/23/13 08:28 PM

It has been almost a year since I've taken a film astrophoto. The longest dry spell in a decade for me. I'm reminded of that fact every time I open the fridge.

Feeling like I lost my mojo.

And I used to be hardcore.........


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David1268
journeyman


Reged: 08/28/13

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6104326 - 09/27/13 02:07 PM

Somehow photons striking film seems more "real" than an electronic file of 0's & 1's that has been processed - although I acknowledge it's really no different than photons striking pixels and film images can be processed to an extent. Also I'm about to take the plunge into digital.

Btw, like Tommyhawk I have a car with a carb that I love to tune.


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6125990 - 10/08/13 10:24 PM

Jim I know the feeling. I've passed up some good nights this year - just cannot get going to drive out to the farm. Getting old I guess and those cold nights without heat just don't do it for me anymore. Tomorrow night conditions - for the first time this year are above average. But, as usual I have a meeting to attend that evening. Maybe after the meeting? What are the odds? Any takers?

Igor


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6126398 - 10/09/13 06:17 AM

Igor,

In light of recent events I am forced to reevaluate everything . I know there is some special work with film to be done, but I believe the tour de force work is over.

I now have hundreds of hours of exposures to comb over and organize. Maybe I will produce a catalog of sorts, kinda like a Selected Regions of the Milky Way, ala Barnard. I have all my field notes from all those years of shooting. It will be fun to organize and desktop publish. I do want to get into writing and perhaps this will be a good next step and a worthy project.

It is hard to pass up those nights. Let's plan on observing more and photographing less. But you know we'll get the itch to load a roll and expose from time to time.


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6129376 - 10/10/13 03:44 PM

AGREED Jim. Getting the Tec ready for some backyard viewing tonight. Might bring the G11 home from the OB and just enjoy some planetary and double star viewing, not to mention Luna. Taking a year off might be a good thing. Re-evaluate the frames, and then take specific exposures to fill out the catalogue so to speak.

I now have access to Bortle 1.5 skies up north and can visit this cottage throughout the year. Those skies alone would make a huge difference to the quality of the exposures. When I viewed the M. Way this summer from this location - even with a rising moon, it was something I had not experienced in quite awhile. The hunt camp has just under Bortle 2 - and the cottage is noticeably "richer" in what can be seen with the eye.

Igor


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Glen A W
sage


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: WEST VIRGINIA USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6178326 - 11/05/13 10:23 PM

I went to Target the other day to get some film. I wanted to experiment with 400 speed color film if ISON gets at all good. I remember taking some nice shots of Hyakutake on 400 speed film. They had no film in the store. I was so surprised. I found no disposable cameras, either. The fellow there said he hadn't seen any come in to be stocked for about three months. I have no idea if that is true and if it's chain wide if it is true but I did look around since I never believe anything they tell me and I couldn't find any.

I think I will get some BW film from Freestyle and develop it myself.

All this talk of "toxic" chemicals. Color chemicals could be pretty toxic, I suppose, but I never had any trouble either way. BW chemicals - how I loved the smell. I can't wait to get back into it. I had the strangest brown spots on my hands from not using gloves...

GW


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6180251 - 11/07/13 12:38 AM

Gosh - a sign of the times that is. But I know Freestyle and B&H have films - lots to choose from and quick delivery. Probably B&W would be a better choice for comets - not a lot of colour and sure simplifies the developing task.

Please shoot and post any pictures you get. This could be a great comet to shoot and many are looking forward to it. Will you be shooting from a tripod or mount?

igor


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Glen A W
sage


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: WEST VIRGINIA USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6180503 - 11/07/13 08:24 AM

I'll shoot on a CG5 mount, piggybacked on my scope. I recall using exposures of up to 30 minutes when Hyakutake was around. I can't remember exactly - it's been a while. I'll probably shoot and develop film and then scan it, without making actually prints. That seems a good method, to me. GW

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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Glen A W]
      #6181383 - 11/07/13 04:17 PM

What are your sky conditions as far as L pollution goes? If you have good skies, and use a 100 B&W film the exposure sounds about right +- with a faster f stop. If Nightfly jumps in he could help a bit more with this as I have little experience with comets or B&W films. Jim shoots a lot of Fuji Acros.

We still have time to get sorted out for this presentation. It could be a special once in a lifetime event as we go thru the tail and hopefully get a fantastic shower.


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6181849 - 11/07/13 09:14 PM

If you can find Fujicolor 100 (CN) in 135 format, that would be my first pick. Fujicolor 200 is almost as good.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/93078-USA/Fujifilm_15719395_CA_135_24_F...

It's cheap and really good. Snatch some before its gone.

Fuji Acros 100 is the best B&W film for astrophotography, period. It will cover the spectrum from blue to orange, but cuts off dramatically in the red spectrum. Should be fine for comets.

Kodak Gold 200 is a great performer, but requires more exposure than the fuji films listed above.

I have not tried Kodak 400. If it is like the old gold 400 from the 90's it should be a great film.


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Glen A W
sage


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: WEST VIRGINIA USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6182968 - 11/08/13 01:29 PM

Thanks for that info! Gold 400 was indeed the film I was using before. I will see about getting the Fuji film you mention. I still have my easyguider and everthing needed for all kinds of film AP. I have not been pleased with results from digital imaging - if you are as interested in art as in science, digital looks wrong, at least I think so. GW

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