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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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dweller25
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Lancashire, UK
Re: Juptier new [Re: stray1]
      #6280475 - 12/30/13 05:04 AM

Hello Stray,

Just spotted this thread - you have a very nice, diverse collection of drawings. I particularly like the wide star fields you have done.


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kenrenard
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/13/12

Loc: Dunmore, PA
Re: Juptier new [Re: dweller25]
      #6280905 - 12/30/13 11:29 AM

Wow,
There is so much to see in this thread. You have really done some lovely work.


Ken


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Jupiter:Mission Accomplished (I think) new [Re: kenrenard]
      #6284892 - 01/01/14 05:52 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

Dave & Ken, thanks much for your comments...greatly appreciated!

Being as it was a holiday and I had a house full of guests, the skies decided to clear up for a few hours. I was unable to do anything but a scant few minutes of observing after everyone left.

My goal was to simply check out the results of my blackening project (as described above) and I was not disappointed. Focusing is so much easier now; points of light come in crisper and much more clean. There is still a bit of aberration, but not a whole lot of it. I think that the quality of my Astroview will preclude any more improvement. However, I am quite happy with the results.

Jove was kind of bland this morning but I attribute that to the conditions. N & S polar regions were both very faint. The NEB was thin and only the hint of a festoon was apparent. The SEB was much thicker and appeared turbulent. I found this turbulence to be unusual because I generally only detect it during GRS transits even though in the past I haven't really been able to see the GRS as anything more than a slight, darker widening along the southern edge of the SEB. According to Stellarium, the GRS was not in transit, so I dismissed the turbulence as being something else. But...I kept noticing a sharp cut in the SEB. This cut looked almost like the Red Spot Hollow (RSH) that I have seen in photos and sketches on these forums. Since the GRS, according to Stellarium, was not in transit at the time I simply attributed this "cut" in the SEB as a structure of some type and went on scanning other parts of Jove to see if I could ferret out any details elsewhere. But, my eye kept being drawn to that "cut".

"What the heck is that thing?" I wondered. "It looks very much like the leading edge of the GRS, but that is not possible because, according to Stellarium, the GRS is not in transit".

I stared at it. Something was there, but I couldn't figure out what it was. Then, in one of those moments of lucid seeing, a red oval appeared, clearly separated from the SEB by a "hollow". My heart skipped a beat. "Uh uh, no way," I told myself. "I did not just see that. According to Stellarium there ain't nothing there to see. That was just my imagination (running away)".

Anyway, my wife returned after shuttling some of guests home and it was time to pack it in and help her clean up after the party. Afterward, I made a quick pencil sketch of the morning's observation and was ready to call it a night. Before doing so, I decided to make a quick check of this chart http://www.skyandtelescope.com/skytel/beyondthepage/Great-Red-Spot-Transit-Ta... on the Sky & Telescope website. What I found nearly blew my mind. Whereas, according to Stellarium the GRS was not in transit at the time I made my observation; according to Sky & Telescope it was...at the EXACT time that my observation was made (i.e., January 1, 2014; 0825 UT).

No kidding? Perviously, this wonderful Jovian feature appeared to me as a vague blob, a slight thickening along the southern edge of the SEB. Tonight it showed itself. It waved at me.

I think I'm in love.



-stray-

PS--you mean a little black paint did THIS? WOW!

PPS--ignore any detail in the bands. Blending artifacts in Gimp. I DID not detect any white spots, etc,...just the Great One

Edited by stray1 (01/01/14 05:58 AM)


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter:Mission Accomplished (I think) new [Re: stray1]
      #6284972 - 01/01/14 08:02 AM

Mark, this is fantastic, fantastic, fantastic! I think it's your best Jupiter sketch to date...and how! You picked up so many things, the base of the festoon at the border of the NEB, the pale rift in the SEB, the horizontal variation of the SEB with that dark southern band. It's all there. Interestingly you caught an ochre hue to the SPR, CA perhaps, or maybe you had some good transparency. I do think I've seen more warmth to it lately so it's an interesting catch. Overall an awesome observation!

After another look at your sketch I see you actually did catch some of the tendril in that larger festoon, albeit faint which is undoubtedly accurate. The EZ has been a bit washed out as of late.

Another thing, I love the representation, you have a nice unique style. Very pleasant to look at. Good colors, too.

You must have knocked your collimation into whack. The blackening definitely improves faint feature recognition. I can't help but think you might have missed some details in the past because of misaligned optics. Of course your observing skills are also getting better with each observation, as is true for all of us. Who knows?!? Whatever the reason you are getting a great view.

I finally feel like you are getting what a well tuned 90mm refractor can offer. Again, nice work, Mark.

Edited by Chopin (01/01/14 08:05 AM)


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter:Mission Accomplished (I think) new [Re: Chopin]
      #6285158 - 01/01/14 10:04 AM

Mark, I am floored by the improved view. If that was mostly due to your project, I dunno what to say other than I'm glad you're in love.

I think that is your best to date, too. Now, it's a matter of training yourself to see more. Well done.


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6319818 - 01/18/14 02:54 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

Hello! Where have ye been? Or should I say, where have I been? Buried under persistent cloud cover, that's where.

Had a brief interval of clear skies on the evening of the 15th. Unfortunately, my eyes never adjusted and the features on Jove were mostly blurry. The NEB appeared thin and offered no detail. A couple of festoon bases were detectable. The NTB there at times, but mostly not. There was the usual vague shading in either polar area the S appearing as a faded gold or yellow.

Just before the clouds moved in and obscured everything I noted a pale, russet dot in the SEB. I assumed that this was the GRS beginning its transit, but after checking with Stellarium following this session apparently I caught a glimpse of Europa in transit. The pale russet spot must be its shadow.

I'm a little confused as to why the P limb ended up on the right side of the sketch. Usually it appears to the left. The only thing that I can think of is that I was observing earlier than normal before Jove crossed vertex. My rig was facing almost due east at the time of this observation. Jove was just rising above the trees behind my observatory (my driveway). Ordinarily I am facing S/SW in the wee hours of the morning when Jove is beginning to set. This might explain the difference in orientation. Either that or I am so out of practice that I have forgotten what I am doing. Probably.

Sketch notes: I have embellished all detail and color for viewing purposes.

Thanks for looking!



-stray-


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: stray1]
      #6319898 - 01/18/14 05:34 AM

Mark, orientation can be confusing and I am not sure how a refractor with a diagonal threats the object. I'd have to google it, but east and west will change direction (from up to down across the FOV and you slew across the meridian) so it's possible the preceding limb will be on the "other side."

I understand embellishing color, but what I look for is the hues and the detail. You captured a lot more of both. The yellow SPR is a little curious, but I'll trust your observation. You captured the blue in the festoon bases and a brownish-red hue in the main belts, and more of a grey NPR. That's about right I'd think for a 90mm aperture.

Either your observing is getting better or your sketching is. Or both, and probably both. There has been a noticeable jump in the detail you render since your blackening mod. And this one is even a leap beyond that.

Well done, Mark. It's quite a nice sketch, and by implication, a great observation, too.


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6320508 - 01/18/14 01:19 PM

Hi Norme,

Thanks for he encouragement.

I think I made an error in the choice of "yellow" for the SPR, plus it should have been much, much fainter.

This image by Kumamori is more accurate. A brownish, gold hue: http://alpo-j.asahikawa-med.ac.jp/kk14/j140116z.htm



-stray-


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: stray1]
      #6320585 - 01/18/14 01:54 PM

Mark, this is definitely a great sketch. I love the fact that you include the moon positions in a separate FOV. Brilliant.

As for the orientation, don't fret as it might just be a scenario of orientation "disorientation". I just ran your date/time settings through "Jupiter 2" (I think you should have the date as the 16th, BTW, converting it to UT). I ran it with east/west inversion to account for your diagonal and believe that you have accidentally marked the trailing limb as preceding. "P" should be on the left hand side if you were using a diagonal. I can also verify this by how your moons are situated when observing to the east.

The features you have here are otherwise spot on. TErrific observation.


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: Chopin]
      #6321598 - 01/19/14 03:09 AM

Jason,

Makes sense. The reason for the date error is that it WAS the 15th my time(EST); however, I am -5 UT. So, it was actually the 16th UT at the time I made the observation.

As for the P/F mix up: following my observation, I checked Stellarium to see what that "spot" was. I thought it was the GRS beginning transit, but Stellarium showed that GRS was not visible. Europa was near the P limb. What I guess this means is that I did not see Europa at all, nor did I detect the GRS. That dot in the SEB in my sketch must have been either a) my imagination, or b) something else entirely.



-stray-


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: stray1]
      #6321809 - 01/19/14 09:09 AM

Mark. You are doing everything right. Your observation seems dead on to me. I think you are unfortunately relying on stellarium, which in my experience lacks accuracy for the Jovian disk. Maybe the moons are accuate, I don't know???

This is the program that I use to verify moon, shadow and GRS transits:

Jupiter 2.0

You can also use this Sky & Telescope Javascript program online:

Jupiter's Moons Javascript


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: Chopin]
      #6321838 - 01/19/14 09:36 AM

Here's an animation I made from Jupiter 2 with the times I believe you were observing, Jan 15th 9:50-10:25 pm. I inverted the E-W view to match a diagonal in refractor.



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azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: Chopin]
      #6321941 - 01/19/14 10:50 AM

Some fine details there - the wavering in the belts is well caught and some interesting color variations. I like your presentation too.

Pete


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6322021 - 01/19/14 11:43 AM

Okay, sorry, but here are some more comparisons. The first answers my own question regarding Stellarium vs Jupiter lunar alignment, which seems close enough. Unless newer versions of Stellarium are different, though, it doesn't verify shadow placement. This is 2014 01 16 22:20 UT:







The next shows how that little spot you recorded...definitely the Europa shadow:



Edited by Chopin (01/19/14 11:46 AM)


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: Chopin]
      #6322383 - 01/19/14 02:55 PM

Chop,

Thank you for the effort you put into this! I agree, it was definitely Europa that I observed on the 15th...er, the 16th.

One thing that I have determined from this experience is that if I am going to have the gall to call myself an "astronomer" (amateur or otherwise) I had darned well KNOW, in my head, which was is N or S; P or F BEFORE I sit down at the EP.

In my defense, for this observation in particular, I will say that it was not a well-planned session. I noted a very rare opening in an otherwise overcast sky and went for it. As I mentioned in my OP I only had 25-30 minutes of clarity before the clouds rolled in. Ironically, by the time my vision adjusted and vague details began to "pop" mother nature decided that my session was over. She has been tormenting me that way for most of the 2013-2014 season...LOL.

Again, many thanks,



-stray-


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: stray1]
      #6322623 - 01/19/14 04:58 PM

Hey, this whole thing takes time. I was always confused about my orientation in the early days. It took me a full year to realize that west is preceding. Forget the fact that I was using a dob, so flip N/S and E/W, plus the changing rotation of an alt/az mount. Pretty soon you'll know Jupiter like the back of your hand. It was a great observation for a short period of time. Keep taking advantage of those sucker holes. Looks like the frigid air is coming back, so it should be fun.

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Special Ed
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/03

Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
Re: Jove 15 Jan 2014 new [Re: Chopin]
      #6323038 - 01/19/14 09:19 PM

Stray,
That's a good observation and sketch. Nice catch on Europa's shadow.

Jason did a good job adjusting your orientation. It gets easier with practice. With Jupiter you have the additional advantage of being able to easily identify north because the NEB looks so different from the SEB. Then just remember that west (preceding) is counter clockwise from north when looking through a refractor with a diagonal.


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Mars! [Re: Special Ed]
      #6327569 - 01/22/14 02:32 AM Attachment (9 downloads)

Ed, Jason, Pete, and Norme...thank you for the comments/compliments!

This past Sunday evening offered up some clear sky while I was at work and unable to do anything. By the time I arrived home early Monday morning, it was overcast. No biggie, that is just the way it has been working out here lately Anyway, I retreated to what what my wife calls my "mancave" (not really, just a paneled room in my basement where I keep my desk, computer, and a bunch of junk) and dorked around online listening to music on Live365. At bedtime--0430 AM (0930 UT)--I shambled upstairs to retire for the night, pausing only to poke my head out the kitchen door to discover...a bright orange dot hovering just above the tree line! Apparently (and obviously) the sky had cleared up a bit while I was dorking around.

Scrambling, yes scrambling, to the garage I set my rig up to take a peek at Mars. Transparency and seeing were not all that hateful. My biggest problem was with frigid, sporadic winds (I've learned that when my wife's wind chimes are tinkling, is not a good time to observe). But, what the heck. I was just taking a peek to see what I could see. Double heck, forgot my gloves...fingers got real cold real quick.

Observation notes: Mars initially appeared as a tiny, tiny disc about the size of a BB held at arm's length. It took several minutes before I could determine that part of the disk lay in shadow. The NPR appeared as a blob of white, never really in sharp focus, but there none-the-less. I think I also detected a similar, though smaller, detail in the SPR area though this could have easily been an optical aberration. Near what I determined to be the EQ region there appeared to a "smudge" of darker color, but this was an on and off thing. Perhaps I detected it, perhaps not (my wind-driven, "shaky" view prohibits me from saying this was a definite detection). If I did actually see something in this region, using Stellarium and a map of Mars from Sky & Telescope as references, this ambiguous smudge might have been the Terra Meridiani or the Syrtis Major region(s). Or it could have been nothing at all except for my sometimes overactive imagination. Or, maybe, wishful thinking.

Sketch notes: I have sharpened everything in the sketch basically because I was unable to "paint" blobs of swimming color in a way that was pleasing to the eye, thus the sketch is my impression of what I was seeing and does not actually represent what a causal observer might see when looking into the EP. This was a very brief observation, followed by a much longer period of time at the computer trying to sort things out. Also note that Mars is presented here as much larger than it actually appeared in the EP. That was done for the sake of clarity when viewing on a computer monitor.

As always, thanks for looking. Your comments and critiques are most welcome.



-stray-


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Mars! [Re: stray1]
      #6328213 - 01/22/14 12:10 PM

Here's a comment: Mark, you are crazy for doing this in the current air conditions! The temps, the winds...it's crazy out there. And I bow to your dedication.

As for the observation, very well done I say! You nailed the NPC, the terminator and that dark spot. What exactly that spot refers to is difficult to say. There are a few smaller regions of dark on the globe at the time of your observation. But you should be able to see something there, even if for fleeting moments. I don't think it's Syrtis Major, although I could be persuaded otherwise, given that I am also new to Mars. My best guess is that it's a visual combination of two regions that are acting like tightly grouped pixels and appearing as one spot. Perhaps some conglomeration of Elysium, Trivium Charontis and the northern extent of Mare Cimmerium. Just a guess, though. If the seeing wasn't quite good enough it probably would have been to challenging to split these regions up with such a small apparent diameter.

I do think you have a great illustration of how it appears it the eyepiece, despite your disclaimer regarding artistic liberty. Honestly, I think we are all guilty of such treatments, otherwise it would be difficult to show our ideas in the digital domain.

Keep 'em coming when you can. You're inspiring me to try for an observation tomorrow morning (cold be cursed!!!).


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Mars! [Re: Chopin]
      #6329000 - 01/22/14 05:51 PM

Hi Jason,

Maybe a little crazy, but not that crazy. Last night for example I had crystal clear sky, so clear that I could just make out the Orion Nebula with unaided vision, but it was bitter cold at 6 deg F. Painfully cold. Ain't goin' out there. Plus, I neglected to shovel about 2-3" of snow off the driveway earlier in the day...

I've gone back and reviewed my observation hoping to determine what that "smudge" was/is (if I detected it at all, that is). I set Stellarium to the proper time and date and used its view of Mars as my primary reference. I am of the opinion that even if Stellarium is not 100% accurate with Jove (how could it be with such a dynamic object?), it is probably quite accurate with static features such as those on Mars. I also used a different map found in The Illustrated Atlas of the Universe (IAU, 2012). I tried to find a photo in the Mars section of ALPO but unfortunately no one had posted anything for the 20th.

I agree that if this smudge was a legitimate detection it was not of one feature but an aggregate of several features spread out over a fairly large area. Referencing IAU, the best that I can determine is that these possible features are: Lunae Planum/Xanthe Terra to the N; Bosporos Planum/Aonia Terra to the S; Ophir Planum to the E; and Syria or Daedalia Planum(s) to the W.

All things considered, even with my less than optimal viewing conditions, these features cover such a wide area that it is possible that I detected them--if only as a pixel or two.

Based upon observation reports on this forum (from you, Norme, others) and the trials and tribulations of viewing what are sometimes ambiguous "things up in the sky", I am beginning to trust my eye and my discretion. Although I usually err toward the side of "doubt it", you folks have taught me that if I "think" that I am detecting/seeing something, I probably am. With that in mind (and if there are no objections), I'd like to place this smudge detection in the YES file.



-stray-

PS--Jason, I inspire you to observe no more than you inspire me! Let's hope that this frigid stuff cuts us some slack and offers up some primo opportunity.

Ref

Garlick, M. A., & Tirion, W. (2012). The illustrated atlas of the universe. New York: Metro Books.

Edited by stray1 (01/22/14 06:31 PM)


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