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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Should I get a telescope for these light pollution
      #6121862 - 10/07/13 08:31 AM

condtions?

Hi, new member here. I have enjoyed reading a lot of your posts already before joining. I live in Gwacheon, South Korea which I doubt any of you know but who knows...Anyway, it's 10 miles outside of Seoul, which is probably one of the most light polluted areas on earth.

I would say the air pollution is actually worse than the light pollution overall, but thankfully in the fall and winter siberian air clears that out for the most part. I'm okay with just observing for half the year, but I'm mainly interested in seeing deep sky objects like galaxies and nebulae. The planets and the moon are cool, but it seems everytime I go to an observatory that's what I see, so if I'm going to be limited to Jupiter, Saturn and the moon, I think I might hold off till I move to the countryside (won't be happening anytime soon unfortunately...)

If you guys could take a look at this link and help me to tell me whether I'd be able to see galaxies in a fairly defined way in my light pollution conditions that would be great. This will be another thread, but I'm considering probably an 8" 9.25, or 11" celestron or possibly a 12" dobsonian. Weight is a consideration so I may end up on the low end of that, but certainly no lower.

So here's the link http://astroscanenthusiast.blogspot.kr/2013/01/dealing-with-light-pollution-w...

(It shows various sky conditions you might encounter in the city, suburbs etc.)

When I look at the sattelite, basically I'm in a huge white spot, but we're blocked off from seoul by a mountain so I don't think it's quite that bad.

I would say we're between a 5 and a 7 in the best conditions, but that said I'd be observing a lot in 7 conditions.

Would I be wasting my money? I'm not expecting hubble telescope stuff, but I'd like to see spiral arms possibly, stuff like that....


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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6121877 - 10/07/13 08:40 AM

I just showed the chart to my wife, she disagrees with me and thinks we're a 5, definitely no better than that though.

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obin robinson
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/25/12

Loc: League City, TX
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6121881 - 10/07/13 08:45 AM

My recommendation would be to get a small telescope now and a larger one when you move. Enjoy what you can and get an idea of what is even visible from your area before you spend a lot of money.

obin


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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: obin robinson]
      #6121894 - 10/07/13 08:52 AM

I won't be moving for years probably. What size scope would you recommend to have an idea of what galaxies I would be able to see? Money isn't a huge issue, I'm okay with spending a few bucks...

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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6121930 - 10/07/13 09:14 AM

Quote:

I won't be moving for years probably. What size scope would you recommend to have an idea of what galaxies I would be able to see? Money isn't a huge issue, I'm okay with spending a few bucks...




I think C11 is better because its F10 that you can enjoy look at Juipter, Saturn, Mars, Moon , etc in light pollution. C11 get more light that you might see faint galaxies and nebula. I used 10 inch dobsonian and I can see all 3 galaxies (M31, M32 and M110)so near Chicago. Chicago is terrible light pollution. (White zone) I think C11 F10 is great for many years to use and if you don't mind that C11 is heavy. C11 at low power for galaxies, nebula and open cluster while use medium and high power for planets and Moon, etc. That's me to pick C11! Good luck!


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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: Illinois]
      #6121937 - 10/07/13 09:18 AM

galaxy's arms is very hard to see even in my 16 inch Dobsonian in yellow zone light pollution! Keep your eyes stay in dark and look at galaxy for a few minutes. look up, down and around then you might catch a faint arm but not easy! I can see faint arms in M51 and M101 in my 16 inch!

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obin robinson
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/25/12

Loc: League City, TX
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6121942 - 10/07/13 09:20 AM

I live about 20 miles south of Houston which is terribly light polluted as well. I do 90% of my viewing with an ST-80 telescope and a 20mm or 32mm eyepiece. I can see star clusters, double stars, satellites, planets (but not in high detail), and the centers of galaxies like andromeda.

When I bring out the 6" or 10" telescopes I can see a few more stars but I also see a lot more light pollution. In the 80mm f/5 the sky is a dark blueish color. With the 10" f/4.5 the sky is almost light grey when looking at the exact same stars at the exact same time.

The big telescopes scoop up more light pollution. They do grab a bit more detail in nebula but it's not like they exclude light pollution either. I would vote for a smaller refractor like an 80mm-100mm or so and when you get a big 10"+ reflector in the future you can still use the refractor as a grab-and-go.

If money isn't an issue I'd go for an apochromatic refractor. I was surprised at the amount of double stars and galaxies I could see with my ED80. I am going to send you an IM to my online archive. You will get an idea of what I can see in the red/white zone with small telescopes.

obin


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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: Illinois]
      #6121948 - 10/07/13 09:24 AM

Thanks Illinois, I will think about the C11. That's disappointing about the arms, I doubt I'll ever get a scope as sizeable as yours. I have some family about 1 1/2 hours south of Chicago in a rural town, and I have to say the conditions aren't much better than they are here. A bit, but when you consider how much further they are from a metro area than I am, it's pretty disappointing. It seems once you get out of the immediate inner city things improve a lot, but you really need to get far from even the medium cities to get conditions significantly better. Some kind of light pollution law of diminishing returns or something...

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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6121956 - 10/07/13 09:28 AM

Thanks a lot obin, I'm going to do some serious research on the scopes you're recommending. Hopefully they're available on ebay as it's hard to get things shipped here.. I didn't think of the fact that a bigger scope would get more light pollution.

If you have your telescope looking straight up, is this still an issue? I can see hundreds of stars straight up, it's the stars near the horizon that really suffer from being close to the city.


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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6121965 - 10/07/13 09:34 AM

How's a scope like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Meade-114EQ-AR-TELESCOPE-STAR-EQUATORIAL-REFLECTING-A...

It doesn't look like my favorite even for a cheap scope, but is available in Korea, would this compare favorably to what you have?


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obin robinson
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/25/12

Loc: League City, TX
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6121993 - 10/07/13 09:44 AM

I have basically the same optics as that Meade EQ in the planetary camera I am building. Here's what Jupiter looks like on a good day. This is a stack of a CCD capture but you get the idea.



You'll be able to see a lot with it. I think you will be satisfied until you can get to the country and buy a larger telescope. I know mine got lots of usage before I rebuilt it.

obin


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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: obin robinson]
      #6122001 - 10/07/13 09:51 AM

Wow that's a lot better than I expected. Didn't look that much better at the observatory here which has a 20 incher. The moons did look a good bit larger though.

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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6122146 - 10/07/13 11:01 AM

That's a very nice image of what size it would look like in the scope. What would you say the approximate power that gave you this size of Jupiter? To me it looks about 15x?

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obin robinson
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/25/12

Loc: League City, TX
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: REC]
      #6122159 - 10/07/13 11:07 AM

Thanks! It's an f/7.9 114mm and the image seemed to be about the same size as when I put a ~7.5mm eyepiece in the focuser. I could be wrong though but that seemed about right from what I can recall.

obin


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BSJ
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 12/22/08

Loc: Grand Isle, VT
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6125070 - 10/08/13 02:16 PM

Quote:

Wow that's a lot better than I expected. Didn't look that much better at the observatory here which has a 20 incher. The moons did look a good bit larger though.




Visual and photography can't be compared. What you'll see in such a small scope will be MUCH less detailed.


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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: BSJ]
      #6126597 - 10/09/13 09:23 AM

^ Thanks, I was just reading about this, apparently photographers usually leave the aperture open for minutes or longer which allows for a lot more light collection. I have a lot to learn apparently.

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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6126656 - 10/09/13 10:07 AM

Just me, but maybe consider a 4" achromat like the Omni 102XLT. Great optics, affordable, f9.8, 1000mm f/l...and on a CG4 mount as well. For a few dollars more you can motorize the mount for tracking.

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obin robinson
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/25/12

Loc: League City, TX
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6126666 - 10/09/13 10:12 AM

Quote:

^ Thanks, I was just reading about this, apparently photographers usually leave the aperture open for minutes or longer which allows for a lot more light collection. I have a lot to learn apparently.




I intentionally took those photos to represent what the objects looked like through the eyepiece. They aren't very long exposures.

obin


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AcesDJD
member


Reged: 10/06/13

Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: obin robinson]
      #6126712 - 10/09/13 10:37 AM

Small scope-check
White zone seeing conditions-check
Pictures- amazing


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photowriter
newbie


Reged: 09/04/13

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Should I get a telescope for these light pollution new [Re: AcesDJD]
      #6133092 - 10/12/13 01:17 PM

I live in Suwon. I recommend that you better go to Yangpyeong or Yongin to see a few galaxies.

Yangpyeong has relatively good sky to observe. But, it would take around 2 hours to go there.

Yongin is closer than Yangpyeong. From my home, it takes 35 min to go to Yongin Football Center. Yongin FC shows a grade lower than Yangpyeong(forget about western sky for the terrible light pollution from Seoul). But you can see Eastern Veil Nebular w/ 12 inch Dob.

You might see a few nabulae or deep sky objects in Gwacheon. But even though you might find them, they won't show any spectables to you in such a bad sky condition.

Edited by photowriter (10/12/13 01:19 PM)


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