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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Mike Unsold]
      #5924775 - 06/17/13 01:51 AM Attachment (5 downloads)

Quote:

Why do you stack your images using average?




Simple answer would be the defaults in ImagesPlus; I normally use INCR, hence the 'Min Max Excluded Average' default of 'Automatic Processing...' routine doesn't come into play. I just end up staking ICNR RAWs with 'Combine Files...' default of 'Average'. I think there is a lesson here for all of us, program defaults DO matter. Are you implying 'Average' is NOT a good option for manually combining ICNR images?


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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #5926768 - 06/18/13 01:59 AM Attachment (5 downloads)

My feel is that a very conservative decompress color is the way to go in 5.5. Note: Image in the next post was stacked from scratch using 'Min Max Excluded Average' of automatic processing.

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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #5926773 - 06/18/13 02:04 AM Attachment (11 downloads)

... and the result (5.5):

Edited by mmalik (06/20/13 12:48 AM)


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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #5930456 - 06/20/13 12:55 AM Attachment (5 downloads)

For comparative analysis, below is an image that was processed using 5.0 'Color Emphasis' [all the other [processing being identical]. Note: Image in the next post was stacked from scratch using 'Min Max Excluded Average' of automatic processing.

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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #5930457 - 06/20/13 12:55 AM Attachment (8 downloads)

... and the result (5.0):

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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Mike Unsold]
      #6121749 - 10/07/13 05:25 AM Attachment (4 downloads)

Is there a way to save certain settings/parameters for processing in ImagesPlus; in other words can settings be scripted in certain way. For example, say I wanted to save following ArcSinH settings so I could readily use it again, can it be done? Thx

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Mike Unsold
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Reged: 05/21/09

Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #6121885 - 10/07/13 08:46 AM

Hi Mike,

Yes you can save ArcsinH parameters or the parameters of any other filter in ImagesPlus for future use in a project file. Actually you can save a sequence of filter and copy them to a new image and apply the sequence as is or edit the sequence then apply to the new image. A sequence of filters can also be applied to a set of images using the Image Set Operations | Filter Files tool.

All of the capability for tracking and saving filter parameters is contained in the Process History window (15th bottom from the right on the top horizontal toolbar) that is maintained for each open image in ImagesPlus. The Save As button on the Process History is used to save an image with its filter sequence including mask, blend mode, and opacity used with each filter in a project file. The File | Load option is used to restore an image and its filter sequence with masks, blend modes, and opacity.

For a given open image left-click on one or more filters shown in the top right operation list of the Process History window then right-click on the selection to select cut, copy, or paste options. If you select copy then you can go to a different open image and right click on its operation list at a given selection in the list and select paste. Now all of the filters with masks, blend, and opacity are inserted into the process list of the second image. To apply all of the new filters to the second image double click on the filter before the point where all of the new filters were inserted then press the Reprocess | All Commands or Next Command button on the Process History Window.

This is all covered by video tutorials in the Basic Operation folder of the ImagesPlus install CD.


A quick guide to filter parameter tracking is at

http://www.mlunsold.com/process/IP5/PHQG/PHistoryQuickGuide.html

Several tutorials that cover using the Process History filter list with masks, blend modes, and layers are posted at the main tutorial page

http://www.mlunsold.com/ILProcessing.html

Look for this section near the top of the above main tutorial webpage.


32 Bit Floating Point Layers with Blending Modes, Opacity, & Masks - New With ImagePlus 5.0


Process History Unlimited Undo & Redo Layers with Blend Modes, Opacity, & Masks
Quick Guide to Process History Layers - Insert, Modify, Copy, Paste, Delete, Save, and Load Project Files
Process History Unlimited Undo & Redo
Sample Project File - Automated Processing of NGC 7635 Narrow Band 4 Color Palette
Blending Modes & Opacity
Control Point & Image Masks
Using Control Point Masks
1 - Basic Steps to Apply a Filter with Blend Mode, Opacity, & Control Point Mask
Converting Control Point Masks to Image Masks
Removing Uneven Field Illumination & Local Area Processing
Using Image Masks
1 - Basic Steps to Apply a Filter with Blend Mode, Opacity, & Image Mask
2 - Basic Steps to Create and Modify an Image Mask
Mask Controlled Midtone Highlight Sharpening, Background Smoothing, & Star Size Reduction
Mike


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rkayakr
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Reged: 10/27/10

Loc: Northeast Ohio
Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Mike Unsold]
      #6122040 - 10/07/13 10:12 AM

Mike
I would like to ask a specific but common question. I have recently started using a Astronomics CLS filter that gives images a blue-green cast. Can you suggest a good way compensate during the color stretch?
Bob


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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Mike Unsold]
      #6122635 - 10/07/13 02:32 PM

Thanks Mike for detailed response.

Next question , 'Multi Point Flatten Background-Planar...' normally follows 'Digital Development'; is 'Multi Point Flatten Background-Planar...' needed when doing 'ArcSinH...'?


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Mike Unsold
Vendor, MLUnsold - ImagesPlus
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Reged: 05/21/09

Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #6128507 - 10/10/13 08:19 AM

Depends on the image Mike. Digital development and ArcsinH are both stretch functions and the only difference is the stretch curve. If your image requires gradient removal then you will need to use multi-point flatten with both DDP and ArcsinH.

Mike


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Mike Unsold
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Reged: 05/21/09

Re: Learning ImagesPlus [Re: rkayakr]
      #6128516 - 10/10/13 08:27 AM

Bob,

I would not use digital development or arcsinh stretch function to deal with the blue-green cast. You could try to restore the color balance before the stretch using the typical levels, curves or pixel math approach.

Mike


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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Mike Unsold]
      #6180175 - 11/06/13 11:21 PM

Thought I'll post this... here for further discussion; thanks to Scott. Oddly enough, I have version 5.5 and am NOT seeing 11th toolbar button for Feature Mask? Regards

Quote:

Mike Unsold processed a couple of images from our Yahoo DSLR Astro Image Processing Group Challenges. He shows the complete workflow for Challenge 19 - Veil Nebula as well as Challenge 20 - NGC 6888 HaRGB. This will give you an idea on how it can be used in image processing.

He's still working on the Feature Mask tutorial web page. Here is a quote from the Beta's directions on using the Feature Mask:

Quote:


INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING THE FEATURE MASK
The feature mask is opened using the 11th toolbar button down from the top on the left vertical toolbar.
The feature mask tool is setup by default to show in black all of the areas of a color or monochrome image that will be removed.

Adjust the star radius and threshold values to maximize detail in the image but also to remove stars or the area marked in black.
The masked area size slider can be used to increase the blacked out area for a given star radius and threshold value.

After you get the blacked out area close to what you want check the Enable Fill box and press apply to fill in the black areas.

You can increase fill radius to make the painted areas darker.

Last adjust the remove small star window size and slider to remove any tiny stars that might remain.
The RGB and R,G,B color mode options can each be run to test and select the best of the two.

RGB color mode removes a pixel if it is effected by the other parameters for red and green and blue.

R,G,B removes a pixel or paints it black before fill is enabled if the pixel is effect in red or green or blue.

After you get the stars removed image correct press the Split Star and Object button to create a star only image that matches.

You can use the object and star image to create masks or process directly as is shown in the CH019 workflow shown below in
** Use the new Merge Split blend mode to merge the processed object and split stars images using the Special Functions |
Combine Images | Using Blend Mode, Opacity, and Mask tool. This is shown in the CH019 workflow.







Its proving to be an extremely useful tool - particularly for pulling out the very faintest of nebulosity in an image.




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srosenfraz
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #6180289 - 11/07/13 01:28 AM

The Feature Mask is new in IP 5.75 (just released). It wasn't implemented in 5.5. IP 5.75 also adds DSLR vertical and horizontal color band and line noise suppression tools.

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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: srosenfraz]
      #6180299 - 11/07/13 01:41 AM

This comes as a surprise to me; 5.5 was released just recently. Regards

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Mike Unsold
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Reged: 05/21/09

Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #6180411 - 11/07/13 06:50 AM

Mike M,

ImagesPlus always has new tools under development. Next week after the release and tutorials of 5.75 are finished I will start working on the next set of new functions.

The DSLR color band and line noise removal tools really remove and not just smear around the color bands and line noise.

I will post tutorials to this thread for the feature mask and band removal tools over the next few days as the tutorials are finished.

Upgrades to the just released version are free if you recently upgraded within 45 days. You recently upgraded.
Email your address and I will send you a 5.75 CD.

Mike


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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Mike Unsold]
      #6307566 - 01/12/14 06:07 AM Attachment (2 downloads)

Mike U, following is a quote from another... thread that you never responded on...

Quote:

Mike U, Joe and I had a phone conversation last night to walk him through the Digital Development process; what we found out was that if he didn’t do an auto stretch as first step before manually adjusting all the sliders, he was able to stretch fine. I am used to doing an auto stretch as first step to have a quick look at the image and then adjusting all the sliders as needed and it has worked very well for me.

Problem Description: Core of the issue was break-point highlights; we were using the same source file (linked in my previous post) and running the steps together at each end; when I did the auto stretch my break-point highlights would be around 2500, when he would do the same, his would get pegged at 65,000; if he tried adjusting back to say 1500 after auto stretching, it would distort the image badly. Only difference is that he is using IP 5.75 on a Win8x64 and I am using IP 5.75 on Win7x64; I am not sure if this is some kind of bug we might have discovered with IP 5.75 and Win8 and how auto stretching handles break-point highlights?

Workaround: Work around we found is if he manually adjusts break-point highlights slider and avoids auto as a preliminary stretch he is fine (strange part is I can’t replicate this behavior on my Win7 platform using the exact same data and same IP version).

My take is whether one uses auto stretch or not as preliminary step [to me it is more of a convenience and I like it to preview the image that way], final break-point highlights one ends up using ‘should’ make the end result look the same and this is not happening for Joe (but works for me). Regards




Now I have myself discovered another issue with Digital Development where 'Scale Function' either doesn't work or takes a long time to become active/available. I am running Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64 and IP 5.75. Regards


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Mike Unsold
Vendor, MLUnsold - ImagesPlus
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #6309625 - 01/13/14 07:01 AM

Mike M.

The digital development scale function will only become available if you select something other than None in the Scale drop down list box. It is up to you to enable the scale function by selecting Linear, Nth root, or Nth Power in the Scale drop down list box. None is the default selection in the Scale drop down list a means no scale function is used.

Also I can't reproduce any problem with Auto other than I have never much liked the parameters that Auto sets. No problem adjusting auto set break-point or background weight into values that do produce a stretch that I like.

I get the same results on XP, XP x64, Vista, Win 7, Win 8, and Win 8.1 x64

Mike

Mike

Quote:

Mike U, Joe and I had a phone conversation last night to walk him through the Digital Development process; what we found out was that if he didn’t do an auto stretch as first step before manually adjusting all the sliders, he was able to stretch fine. I am used to doing an auto stretch as first step to have a quick look at the image and then adjusting all the sliders as needed and it has worked very well for me.

Problem Description: Core of the issue was break-point highlights; we were using the same source file (linked in my previous post) and running the steps together at each end; when I did the auto stretch my break-point highlights would be around 2500, when he would do the same, his would get pegged at 65,000; if he tried adjusting back to say 1500 after auto stretching, it would distort the image badly. Only difference is that he is using IP 5.75 on a Win8x64 and I am using IP 5.75 on Win7x64; I am not sure if this is some kind of bug we might have discovered with IP 5.75 and Win8 and how auto stretching handles break-point highlights?

Workaround: Work around we found is if he manually adjusts break-point highlights slider and avoids auto as a preliminary stretch he is fine (strange part is I can’t replicate this behavior on my Win7 platform using the exact same data and same IP version).

My take is whether one uses auto stretch or not as preliminary step [to me it is more of a convenience and I like it to preview the image that way], final break-point highlights one ends up using ‘should’ make the end result look the same and this is not happening for Joe (but works for me). Regards




Now I have myself discovered another issue with Digital Development where 'Scale Function' either doesn't work or takes a long time to become active/available. I am running Windows 8.1 Enterprise x64 and IP 5.75. Regards




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Joe Eiers
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Reged: 09/08/11

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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: mmalik]
      #6311177 - 01/13/14 09:24 PM

I'm thrilled there's a discussion with images plus. I LOVE. this program but have an extraordinarily hard time figuring out how to use it even with the tutorials. I really need step by step procedures like mmalik has in his superb document.
There's lots of documentation but IP really needs more basic step by step details to be accessible for the likes of folks like me.
Once I get further down the learning curve I'll contribute to making it easier for us slow starters.
I'm not knocking IP, I love it! I think of it as jewels in a box I don't have the combo to get in.
Joe


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mmalik
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Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Mike Unsold]
      #6311605 - 01/14/14 03:13 AM

Quote:

The digital development scale function will only become available if you select something other than None in the Scale drop down list box. It is up to you to enable the scale function by selecting Linear, Nth root, or Nth Power in the Scale drop down list box. None is the default selection in the Scale drop down list a means no scale function is used.

Also I can't reproduce any problem with Auto other than I have never much liked the parameters that Auto sets. No problem adjusting auto set break-point or background weight into values that do produce a stretch that I like.

I get the same results on XP, XP x64, Vista, Win 7, Win 8, and Win 8.1 x64




Mike U, you are not understanding the problem/s; I am adjusting 'DDP Stretch' parameters first but 'Scale Function' drop down doesn't become available for quite some time for me to select any of the scale functions (Linear or nths). This definitely a bug of some sort; please look into it as it is affecting core piece of the software. Regards


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Mike Unsold
Vendor, MLUnsold - ImagesPlus
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Reged: 05/21/09

Re: Learning ImagesPlus new [Re: Joe Eiers]
      #6313432 - 01/14/14 11:33 PM

Quote:

I'm thrilled there's a discussion with images plus. I LOVE. this program but have an extraordinarily hard time figuring out how to use it even with the tutorials. I really need step by step procedures like mmalik has in his superb document.
There's lots of documentation but IP really needs more basic step by step details to be accessible for the likes of folks like me.
Once I get further down the learning curve I'll contribute to making it easier for us slow starters.
I'm not knocking IP, I love it! I think of it as jewels in a box I don't have the combo to get in.
Joe




Joe,

The DSLR_ASTRO_IMAGE_PROCESSING group is a very good place to learn how to process images and learn how to use ImagesPlus. Currently there are 22 different sets of images that you can download, process, and post your result along with questions. Detailed workflows are also posted. You can compare your results with those from other using many different image processing apps. Each month there is a new image to process. Here is an example of the ImagesPlus workflow for the last few months. If more detailed is need on any step then questions can be posted on the DSLR_ASTRO_IMAGE_PROCESS group.


http://mlunsold.com/process/ip5/ch019/ch019.html

http://mlunsold.com/process/ip5/ch020/ch020.html

http://mlunsold.com/process/ip5/ch021/ch021.html

In a few days I will post the ImagesPlus workflow for the
January 2014 image of C022 - IC 1805 Heart Nebula.

I also very often process images from members of the ImagesPlus Yahoo group and post very detailed workflows with screen shots.

Mike


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