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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts...
      #6134899 - 10/13/13 12:17 PM

Picked up the subject scope and now thinking about a proper mount for it. I want to do some DSLR AP with it. I predict the OTA plus AP add-ons and AG will come in around 32-35lbs. I'd like to try and keep the mount cost with all the extras under $4K. My first thought is a G11 Gemini goto. Been looking at all the mount options I can think of, then I research threads on these and every one of them has "problem" threads associated with them. Hard for me to tell if it is user induced problems or real OEM issues.

I think I'm on the right track considering the G11 w/ Gemini but just need some of your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks in advance for your time to respond!

Edited by dkbender (10/13/13 04:39 PM)


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Dixie
super member


Reged: 03/30/06

Loc: UK Latitude 53.3 north
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6134905 - 10/13/13 12:21 PM

Dave
To some point depends on whether you want the set-up to be portable. I think this scope is F8? If so you are going to have a large moment-arm so sturdier the better.
Rich


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: Dixie]
      #6134947 - 10/13/13 12:47 PM

Rich,

Thanks for the quick reply! Unfortunately, I need it to be reasonably portable.... meaning 50lb pieces are okay for short distances and getting back and forth to the vehicle.

I think the G11 fits this profile and budget but after reading about the NEQ6-Pro, the Atlas EQ and some others, I'm just wondering if I'm missing some options.


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tomcody
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6135332 - 10/13/13 04:17 PM

I think rich's advice is spot on. As for weight , with the G11 you are going to end up with two 35 lb pieces ( if you get one of the folding tripods). If you are ok with that weight? go for it.
One more thing, look at the replacement parts on the Losmandy web site, almost anything on the mount is available with one click. All mounts can and will break or wear at some point (moving parts and electronics) so at least Losmandy has support covered for the future.
Rex


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: tomcody]
      #6135364 - 10/13/13 04:37 PM

Quote:

I think rich's advice is spot on. As for weight , with the G11 you are going to end up with two 35 lb pieces ( if you get one of the folding tripods). If you are ok with that weight? go for it.
One more thing, look at the replacement parts on the Losmandy web site, almost anything on the mount is available with one click. All mounts can and will break or wear at some point (moving parts and electronics) so at least Losmandy has support covered for the future.
Rex




Thanks Rex!

I'm okay with that weight and yes, I've been thinking about spares and support in the future too. That's why the G11 keeps coming up on my radar screen but I wasn't sure that was the only "real" option I have.

Been looking at used mounts, of course the AP Mach1 and 900's look really good but they are all, way over my budget, and that's used pricing. I guess my question is, are they $3K - 4K better than the G11?? I don't know the answer to that.


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Dixie
super member


Reged: 03/30/06

Loc: UK Latitude 53.3 north
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6135617 - 10/13/13 06:50 PM

G11 is not a bad choice - there's also the CGE Pro, but not quite so portable, although performance-wise improved (apparently) after some tweaks a year or so ago. The NEQ6 is a smashing mount (I've got one), but my CGE (similar to the G11 capacity wise, no longer made, but a used buy) would carry the refractor better. The EQ8 is about to be released in the US ( I think)- but the central pier is very heavy. It would make light work of the load. All choices to consider. G11 may be the best compromise.
Good luck,
Rich


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northernontario
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/01/09

Loc: Porcupine, Ontario Canada
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: Dixie]
      #6135641 - 10/13/13 07:04 PM

I have my 152 refractor on an AZ EQ 6 GT. The refractor, with EP and diagonal weighs about 30 lbs.

I find it more than adequate and have managed some very nice photos with this set up.

The clutches and altitude adjustment is very well thought out.

And EQMOD is a fantastic program.

jake


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TxStars
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/01/05

Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6136209 - 10/14/13 01:55 AM

I would say the G-11 would be the minimum mount for 1000mm imaging with the moment arm of a 6" f/8 scope.
Dont forget you will need a guide scope as well


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: TxStars]
      #6136454 - 10/14/13 08:53 AM

Thanks for the input folks!

and TxStars, it is an f/8 at 1216mm, all setup, its about 52" or so swinging around.

So, I'm taking a little closer look at the Atlas AZ/EQ-G and the Celestron CGEM-DX.

What is difficult to figure out is, would a used AP Mach1 or 900 be THAT much better for double or triple the cost?? Anyone have any experience with this that can shed light on it??


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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6136768 - 10/14/13 11:56 AM

Dave - loads of people take GREAT pics with the G11's. Stunning stuff. Same with CGEM-DX's and CGE PRO's. The things I've noticed about the "Mercedes" and above mounts (AP, Software Bisque, ASA, 10Micron, etc.) are that they're just THAT MUCH more consistent in taking great pics because their mechanics and software are better, and that they're much better at longer and longer focal lengths. (And that's not including bells-&-whistles like software integration with the mount to an extreme degree, through the mount cabling, etc.)

Whether that's worth 2X or 3X the money is a personal choice. I'm moving from an iEQ30 to either a PMX or a DDM60 Pro because I want to push my sub lengths and narrowband. I am a wide-field guy, so it's a tiny bit extreme, maybe, but to know that once it's going, I can snooze the whole night and not miss a sub is worth a lot to me. 5X the money even. But that's me.

The G11s are really nice pieces of gear with a long history of robust picture taking. If you tinker, then even better, as they're completely tinker-able and modded and upgradeable. Not a bad choice at all.

Paul


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: psandelle]
      #6136844 - 10/14/13 12:25 PM

Hello Paul!

Thanks for your insight! I freely admit I lack experience and perspective and your reply gives me what I need.

The older I get, the more I tend to buy something once and be done with it, once I understand the relative differences between the choices and options.

The Bisque Paramount MX is a thing of beauty and looks to be executed at the highest level of design and fabrication. This one would be a top choice of the top tier mounts! That PMX portable pier tripod is amazing for 20 lb carry weight and a 250 lb load weight.

I think the thing for me to do is to get going with a very good but not "pinnacle of the art" mount. The G11 still looks to be a very good candidate for a lot of reasons. At some later date, if my needs still demand a better mount, I'd sell the G11 and then upgrade to one of the top tier mounts. I think I am gaining perspective on this now!


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Mike Wiles
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/04/09

Loc: Goodyear, AZ
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6136884 - 10/14/13 12:39 PM Attachment (6 downloads)

Quote:

What is difficult to figure out is, would a used AP Mach1 or 900 be THAT much better for double or triple the cost?? Anyone have any experience with this that can shed light on it??




So I happen to have this particular telescope. My thought on mounting the telescope is that you're going to need at minimum a Celestron CGE or G11 as has been discussed quite a bit in this thread already. I believe my old CGE mount would have done a serviceable job of carrying the ED152CF. Personally, I wouldn't want to image with the scope on a mount any smaller than that. I'm sure it can be done, but it doesn't sound like fun to me.

My ED152CF rides on an AP900. I think that they're a perfect match and I'd say that yes, the extra money spent on such a mount does make a difference. Every imaging problem I had that can be attributed to following my object across the sky disappeared as soon as I got the AP900. Guiding is spot on - all the time. Guiding log files indicate that the mount averages less than one correction being issued per minute. It's truly, nearly perfect. Slight breezes and minor wind are a non-issue for the AP mount. It's all permanently mounted in a remote observatory now, but I did use the combination as a portable setup prior to that. The combination of the azimuth/altitude adjustment controls and PemPRO enabled me to get the AP900 polar aligned to within a couple of arc minutes of the pole before the end of astronomical twilight. I typically lost no dark sky time trying to get the mount setup to image properly. I regularly image with 20, 30 and 60 minute subexposures using this setup.

No question that they're expensive - for me, it's been more than worth it. If you don't necessarily think the expense is worth it - the CGE and the G11 are both very fine mounts and would do the job in the capacity that you want to use them.

Here's a link to my Astrobin page with images shot using the ED152CF on an AP900: http://www.astrobin.com/users/MikeWiles/


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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6136888 - 10/14/13 12:40 PM

Dave - I did the same thing (after coming back after 35 years of no amateur astro): the iOptron mounts are great - fantastic polarscope, good software in the HC, great customer service. Now it's time to move up (or, in Spring) and everything I learned from the iEQ30 goes into being really comfortable with my next mount. I think I'd have had a much greater learner curve if I jumped straight into modelling and unguided imaging right off the bat.

Check the iEQ45's. I think the G11's might be better for your scope, but those iEQ45's are pretty solid for the price.

Paul


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: psandelle]
      #6137111 - 10/14/13 01:59 PM

Hello Mike!

What a pleasant surprise for you to chime in! I've read your blog and seen your Astrobin before you posted. You're one of the reasons I decided to purchase this slightly used ed152cf!! When I spotted my scope on AM, I did my research and it turns out, you're center stage there. Ha!! btw, I really enjoyed your time-lapse vid on YT of your scope and mount.

Your advice on the AP900 and PMX is duly noted! AP is 60 miles from my house... maybe I'll give them a call and schedule a visit. That will probably prove to be a very costly visit. hehe...!!


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6137119 - 10/14/13 02:02 PM

Thanks again Paul!

I am still keeping an open mind and checking through all the options. Although, Mike is making it difficult with the same scope, on the AP900.


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brokenwave
sage


Reged: 05/10/11

Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6137130 - 10/14/13 02:09 PM

If you get a G11, might want to consider getting a RA spacer plate to keep it from crashing into itself. Played with a G11 this weekend and was surprised the mount can do that to itself and almost did when we were using it.

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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: brokenwave]
      #6137138 - 10/14/13 02:12 PM

Dave - can't go wrong with an AP! I mean, you'd NEVER have to worry about getting a mount again. Don't you have a kid you can sell, or something? I'm looking into getting a good price for my son, but he's not helping any by being a teenager. Seems NO ONE wants to pay top dollar for a teenager.

Paul


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: brokenwave]
      #6137186 - 10/14/13 02:34 PM

Quote:

If you get a G11, might want to consider getting a RA spacer plate to keep it from crashing into itself. Played with a G11 this weekend and was surprised the mount can do that to itself and almost did when we were using it.




brokenwave, thank you for the heads up on the RA spacer!

I also read somewhere that the one piece worm gear block is an essential upgrade also.

Edited by dkbender (10/14/13 04:13 PM)


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dkbender
super member


Reged: 09/26/13

Loc: Illinois
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: psandelle]
      #6137192 - 10/14/13 02:36 PM

Quote:

Dave - can't go wrong with an AP! I mean, you'd NEVER have to worry about getting a mount again. Don't you have a kid you can sell, or something? I'm looking into getting a good price for my son, but he's not helping any by being a teenager. Seems NO ONE wants to pay top dollar for a teenager.

Paul




HA!!

Now you're giving me "evil" ideas.


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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Mount for ES ED152CF thoughts... new [Re: dkbender]
      #6137251 - 10/14/13 03:07 PM

Is it really "evil" to want better gear? I mean, kids just leave the house eventually, while good gear can last a lifetime....



Paul


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