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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6140570 - 10/16/13 10:13 AM

Quote:

I prefer 25x100 binocs to 4" refractors for wide area sweeping because 2 eyes are better than one.




I am the other way..

If the quality of the views through the 25x100's were equal to those of the 4 inch refractor and if the binoculars were equally comfortable viewing the majority of the sky, if I could use filters and eyepieces with large eye lenses.

But as it is, with my 4 inch refractor, I can can the skies at 17x with a 4.5 degree TFoV and 5.7mm exit pupil, at 27x with a 3 degree TFoV at a 4mm exit pupil, zoom in and observe a small detail at 200x... or 130x or whatever is most appropriate. The viewing position is comfortable, the setup is easy and the scope and mount fit easily through a narrow door way..

I have seen the Veil in my 4 inch from my red-zone backyard in the middle of 1.3million other good people because I am able to use the right filters and eyepieces.

The things that giant binoculars do best are best done under dark skies.. The majority of things that are doable from urban skies are better done in a telescope...

YMMV

Jon


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6140795 - 10/16/13 12:21 PM

What telescope/ filter/ eyepiece did you use to see the Veil Jon in the city?
I like to use both types of instruments. I always use binos first.
If the skies look promising and I'm not too tired I bring out my big scopes and mount. Most of the time it isn't worth the effort.


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cw00
member


Reged: 08/16/11

Loc: La Mesa, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6141187 - 10/16/13 03:44 PM

I think it really depends on what you want to see. If you want to see DSOs using nebula filters, getting a 5" acro like ST120 may be a better choice than getting a pair of 25x100 giant bino. I really enjoy my 20x110 bino at a dark site without filters and using two eyes instead of one is just so relaxing. But in my light polluted backyard, the bino does not work well and the screw-in filters do not help much at all even though many bino sellers advertise the use of nebula filters. The total weight of a ST120 and a sturdy skywatcher az4 mount is about the same as that of a giant bino on a sturdy tripod. You will be able to carry the entire setup out in one trip.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6141439 - 10/16/13 06:08 PM

Quote:

What telescope/ filter/ eyepiece did you use to see the Veil Jon in the city?
I like to use both types of instruments. I always use binos first.
If the skies look promising and I'm not too tired I bring out my big scopes and mount. Most of the time it isn't worth the effort.




I have observed the Veil, or better said, detected the Veil, from my urban backyard with an TeleVue NP-101, 31mm Nagler and a Celestron O-III. In larger scopes, it's better, it actually surprisingly good in my 13.1 inch F/5.5 Dob.

From my urban backyard, I just about always start out with a scope, I gauge the size of the scope based on on my energy level... Bigger scopes take long to acclimate so I need to get a head start.

Binoculars are companions to the scope...

Jon


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6142888 - 10/17/13 12:46 PM

I have seen globulars M22, M13 and the ring nebula M57 under full moon conditions in 25x100 binocs. I can't wait to try mine under dark skies. Messier marathons should be a cinch with them.

Jon your 31mm N costs much more than my 25x100s, let alone your 4" setup with mount!

I have seen the Veil in a 13.1" with a Lumicon OIII filter, but not in anything less than a 8" in urban condition.


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Chuck Hards
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/03/10

Loc: The Great Basin
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: SMark]
      #6142924 - 10/17/13 01:10 PM

Comet PanSTARRS was excellent through 15x70mm, 20x70mm & 25x100mm binos from my very light-polluted suburban back yard. They work well on stellar objects such as open clusters and the brighter globulars, as well. It's only galaxies and fainter nebulae that really suffer.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6142983 - 10/17/13 01:43 PM

Quote:

I have seen globulars M22, M13 and the ring nebula M57 under full moon conditions in 25x100 binocs. I can't wait to try mine under dark skies. Messier marathons should be a cinch with them.

Jon your 31mm N costs much more than my 25x100s, let alone your 4" setup with mount!

I have seen the Veil in a 13.1" with a Lumicon OIII filter, but not in anything less than a 8" in urban condition.





I will say this, you will have great fun out there when the skies are clear and dark...

I also have a 100mm F/6 Achromat that I often use, I would suspect the total investment, scope, mount, diagonal, a decent widefield eyepiece would be about the same cost as a pair of 25x100s and a suitable mount. The views in the 100mm F/6 are not so perfect as the NP-101 but otherwise they are quite similar.

For me, I am looking at everything I can see.. double stars, planets, galaxies, nebulae... NGC6572 is ~6 arc-second magnitude 9 planetary, very small but very bright. It's a good one for light polluted skies but not much to see at 25x..


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: SMark]
      #6143765 - 10/17/13 09:17 PM

Yes, becuse they are easier to take with you wherever you may travel.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6144817 - 10/18/13 12:46 PM

Quote:

Yes, becuse they are easier to take with you wherever you may travel.




Easier than what? Giant binoculars require a serious mount and a case. A fast refractor and see few eyepieces takes up less space and manages with a more compact mount.

Jon


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SMark
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/29/11

Loc: Atlanta, GA USA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6145487 - 10/18/13 07:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes, becuse they are easier to take with you wherever you may travel.




Easier than what? Giant binoculars require a serious mount and a case. A fast refractor and see few eyepieces takes up less space and manages with a more compact mount.

Jon




Well, this started as a comparison between 5 lb. giant binoculars and 10 lb. giant binoculars.


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curiosidad
sage


Reged: 06/09/11

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: SMark]
      #6146628 - 10/19/13 12:35 PM

Hello,
As an example:
A few years ago I could use some time one 100mm Miyauchi 20X/37X eyepiece.
Well, Flame Nebula not see anything at all in the backyard of my house, but when I went out to the field, is very well appreciated., Beautiful.
And so with many objects, what a difference!
A greeting


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6146890 - 10/19/13 03:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What telescope/ filter/ eyepiece did you use to see the Veil Jon in the city?
I like to use both types of instruments. I always use binos first.
If the skies look promising and I'm not too tired I bring out my big scopes and mount. Most of the time it isn't worth the effort.




I have observed the Veil, or better said, detected the Veil, from my urban backyard with an TeleVue NP-101, 31mm Nagler and a Celestron O-III. In larger scopes, it's better, it actually surprisingly good in my 13.1 inch F/5.5 Dob.

From my urban backyard, I just about always start out with a scope, I gauge the size of the scope based on on my energy level... Bigger scopes take long to acclimate so I need to get a head start.

Binoculars are companions to the scope...

Jon




I have never been able to see the viel in binos. 9x63 & 10x63 don't have aperture required to see when pointing at zenith. 25x100's on camera tripod not able to point to zenith to even look. That is where having large 45 or 90 deg binos would be a benefit for observing, but at a significantly greater cost.


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6147203 - 10/19/13 06:09 PM

Some people handhold their giant binoculars while lying on the ground or in a chair. That is why it is easier than to drag out the entire telescope setup wait an hr and see the clouds roll in.
Some objects like M101 cannot be seen in suburban areas and there is a point where faint objects such as the veil and horsehead is better suited for larger telescopes and filters. Another option is to use an electronic eyepiece or camera but that is a very different experience.
So for the original question, yes it is worth it to spend money on giant binoculars such as 25x100 because they are simply going to cost more later and might not be produced in the same quantities.


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KennyJ
The British Flash
*****

Reged: 04/27/03

Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6147280 - 10/19/13 07:03 PM

< So for the original question, yes it is worth it to spend money on giant binoculars such as 25x100 because they are simply going to cost more later and might not be produced in the same quantities.>

I'm afraid I don't understand the implication here that these kind of binoculars "are going to cost MORE in the future".

Why?

Kenny


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KarlL
sage
*****

Reged: 12/14/12

Loc: Northern Illinois
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: KennyJ]
      #6147420 - 10/19/13 08:55 PM

I really appreciate everyone's input.

To answer Jon's question, I have an 8 inch f/6 that I'm very happy with.

The question regarding binoculars and light pollution was speculative. I'm sticking with the reflector. It's a very good all-rounder. I'm in the process of saving for a new focuser and ultra wide angle eyepieces.

Regards,

Karl


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
*****

Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Oort Cloud 9
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: KarlL]
      #6147475 - 10/19/13 09:45 PM

Using 100mm binoculars, it's possible to spot almost every Messier object under light-polluted urban skies. Even if some of the faintest targets are only glimpsed with averted vision, they can be "bagged". Under average NELM 4 to 4.5 skies, I spotted every one except for a couple of the galaxies that eluded me.

Out of all the gear I used over the years, under urban skies, I had the most success with the big binoculars.

Best regards and clear dark skies,

MikeG


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
*****

Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Oort Cloud 9
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #6147478 - 10/19/13 09:47 PM

Quote:


Milton Wilcox R.I.P





Kenny, your sigline reminded me. I miss Milt. It's been a long time, but I am glad he is not forgotten. I wonder what happened to that awesome Kowa big binocular he had?


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6147920 - 10/20/13 06:18 AM

Quote:


I have never been able to see the viel in binos. 9x63 & 10x63 don't have aperture required to see when pointing at zenith.




For what it's worth: I can see the Veil with my 10x50s from a relatively dark site that's on the desert side of the mountains east of San Diego.

Jon


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: KarlL]
      #6147923 - 10/20/13 06:28 AM

Quote:

I really appreciate everyone's input.

To answer Jon's question, I have an 8 inch f/6 that I'm very happy with.

The question regarding binoculars and light pollution was speculative. I'm sticking with the reflector. It's a very good all-rounder. I'm in the process of saving for a new focuser and ultra wide angle eyepieces.

Regards,

Karl




Karl:

Just to add to the confusion..

I do enjoy the combination of a larger scope and some sort of smaller refractor(s). In my mind, the question is, should that be a single refractor, i.e. telescope, or a pair, i.e. binoculars.

From suburban skies, the advantages of a 3 or 4 inch relatively fast telescope are significant so that's a place to start. There is not much one will see in 25x100s that won't be seen in a 4 inch scope but there is a lot that one can see with a 4 inch scope that cannot be seen in the 25x100s.

But everyone needs a good pair of 35mm-50mm binoculars..

Jon


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claudedenis
journeyman


Reged: 08/04/13

Loc: 49.45 °N - 1.03°E France
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6147958 - 10/20/13 07:21 AM

As a beginner I must say:but everyone needs a good pair of 35mm-50mm-70mm because United Optics ms marine 15x70(alias: Oberwerk Ultra) is a big improvement,for me better than a premium 10x50 pair.
It shows a lot on a monopod,which is a very light equipment.
Under my light pollued skies,first step done.

Second step would be problematic as I prefer observing with my two eyes for several reasons,it gives me more fun and informations.
To follow the wise advice given by Jon Isaacs I need a binoviewer+refractor.
So,what binoviewer+refractor do the same work(and more)as United Optics 28x110 binoculars for the same weight,overall volume and price?
Specifications:
Magnification28x,Objective lens diameter110mm,
PrismsBAK4,Porro Prisms,
FocusingIndividual,eyepiece focusing,
Eye relief18mm,Apparent field of view60,
Exit pupil diameter3,92mm,
CoatingFull broadband multicoating
Weightca. 6kg
I forget rubber armour and Nitrogen filled which are binoculars qualities.


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