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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: fetoma]
      #6143468 - 10/17/13 06:27 PM

Hi Frank,


I am purely making a guess in my prediction that Celestron will incorporate the VX gear technology in its next version of CGEM/CGEM DX. I base my prediction on two facts.

1. At NEAF I spoke with Celestron people and I specifically commented on the gap between the VX and CGE-PRO and the issues with the CGEM. I asked them point-blank if they were going to upgrade the CGEM/DX and he said they were working on it. I was buying a CGEM at NEAF so I wanted to know the upgrade cycle. My understanding from the conversation was it 2014/15 at the latest.

2. Given the recent introduction of the EQ8 and Synta's involvement there, it seems logical to expect an entry in the Celestron line-up that will incorporate the concept of dual GEM/Alt-Az like the failed LX-80 and the new Ioptron dual GEM/Alt Az.

Nevertheless, I went ahead and got the CGEM and sold my CG5, because frankly I could not wait. But heck... we are probably 6 months closer now... So if I were in the OP shoes now, I would wait.

Al


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bogg
super member


Reged: 11/17/09

Loc: Bruce County Ontario
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #6143505 - 10/17/13 06:50 PM

Quote:

CGEM vs. CGEM DX is really a matter of cost and basically $500 when all is said and one, whether you buy new or used... What do you get for the extra $. Basically a better tripod, beefier counterweight bar and i suppose it's debatable if the motor control,board is better in th CGEM DX or not...

For a 9.25" the difference between CGEM or DX is probabl not worth $500... A 11" probably give the edge to the DX, I think 70% I would go with DX with 11"... A 8" is probably 70% better value on the plain CGEM and your 9.25" is more like 50/50 in terms of value proposition to the DX...

If you are planning to really upgrade in 3-5 yrs to an AP or Paramount, then I would say just get the CGEM and with resale value you probably do on... If on the other hand this next mount is close to your final mount purchase, then I would get the DX.

If you plan to guide, then the CGEM + DX are mostly comparable up to 2 mins... Given the savings I would say go for he CGEM ... I chose the CGEM because I bot it at NEAF, got a great deal and best of all saved enough,to buy more gear... I use it with my 8" and C80ED piggybacked...

Al




I was talking to a Celestron rep at ASTROCATS in Oakville earlier this year. I was asking what the difference was in the two mounts as I was thinking of putting it on a pier mount. The answer I got was I would be better off with the CGEM mount over the DX as on the pier it would have the same performance, including instrument weight as the DX. It really appears the only differences are the counterweight bar, the beefier tripod, and the mount connection between the head and the tripod. Mostly cosmetic. for some the better tripod would be worth it.


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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: bogg]
      #6143862 - 10/17/13 10:13 PM

Hey All, great news from Team Celestron,, I asked about cogging and 8/3 and heres the answer
""The so called "cogging" issue has been corrected in firmware. The public beta has been available for months. I haven't made that public yet becaue I had some checking I needed to do. But that should be done this week. And then I am going public with it.
As for the 8/3 term, as you said, it would require a new gear box like the one we have in the AVX. This might require changing the motor control board as well.""

I just replied back about possibly installing them myself if I ran into the 8/3 so will see. I asked about the cost for one to do it..... and did let him know that many LOVE their mounts and have no problems
Also Al, they do have the ability to dual mount, there is one that did it on this thread with pictures, and its in the knowledge base also,
Kasey


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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6143870 - 10/17/13 10:19 PM

A side note, I have my tri-pod from my CPC after I de-forked it.. I wish was a way to put like a pier mount on it... I am pretty sure is the same as the CPC 11 tri-pod. I am sure it could handle the weight easy, its pretty stout, Kasey

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orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6143942 - 10/17/13 11:06 PM

You should be able to reuse the CPC tripod, with some machining. But the CGEM and DX are only sold with tripods, you don't save any money that way. But really why not the tried-and-true Atlas, which has no 8/3.

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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6144308 - 10/18/13 06:50 AM

the Atlas is only rated to 44lbs and is $300.00 more and has to be polar aligned? Also from all I have seen Celestron has very very good customer support. I know the Atlas gets good reviews,
Kasey


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6144404 - 10/18/13 08:43 AM

There is EQMod and they have an ASPA like procedure.

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orlyandico
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: Stew57]
      #6144422 - 10/18/13 08:47 AM

I would take those weight ratings with large chunks of salt. In my opinion a +/- 5 lb difference with these mounts is immaterial.

Does anyone really believe the iEQ45 is 45 lb rated? If you've handled it, compared to the Atlas and CGEM it is much more lightly built - and not in a good way. The Mach1 weighs less than the Atlas or CGEM but nobody would mistake it for being less beefy.

The Atlas now has an ASPA procedure as Mark pointed out (it's made by the same company that makes the CGEM!) and the Atlas doesn't have cogging or 8/3.

But then I'm biased, having owned a CGEM for a long time. I dance on its grave.


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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6144539 - 10/18/13 09:59 AM

LOL on dancing on the grave Orlyandico,, I have another post on Team Celestron adressing 8/3, will see... Also Celestron has 2 year warranty and Orion only 1 year,, is another consideration..... Even looking at Losamndy G-11, Kasey

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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6144548 - 10/18/13 10:03 AM

Also the Arizona ASAE show is coming up in Nov. msy go to that and get a good deal on something like Al ,
Kasey


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6144555 - 10/18/13 10:08 AM

The G11 is in another class. Celestron will warranty their mount well. It took 6 to 8 weeks from the time I shipped the mount to them until I got it back. They will exchange it if they feel it is a difficult dagnosis. It took 4 tries for me.

An update to integer motors will move this mount up a class. I run mine with 40+ lbs at times. At shorter FL or shorter exposures (under 2 or 3 minutes) it will guide fine. The software is the best around.

If I had to do again I would have gone with the Atlas. As it is I am waiting for a US release of the EQ8 or a CGEM update.


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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: Stew57]
      #6145167 - 10/18/13 04:17 PM

Hey Mark, I think the EQ8 in US dollars is about $4,200? Am just curious if thats right why you would not look at a Losamndy G-11/G-2 for almost 1K less? Also my post in T/C for cogging and 8/3 is under the Misc link if you want to see what they say..
Kasey


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6145314 - 10/18/13 05:50 PM

50kg capacity, lower PE, EQMod, and second set of incoders that keep position.

If you are looking for any long intigration doing astrovideo unguided, forget thre CGEM\DX. In PM with those at Celestron, I was told that was a 1 percent user loking for that quality, and they did not have the resources to pursue a fix for the 8/3 error. I was told about a year ago by one that there was going to be some exciting news for me, then the AVX was released. I thought the same integer servos would be used in the CGEM/DX but then in pm have been told to not count on it any time soon.

Many swear by the CGEM, but they are either visual or guided at usually shorter FL.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: Stew57]
      #6145336 - 10/18/13 06:08 PM

Quote:



If you are looking for any long intigration doing astrovideo unguided,




Not the case at all. Period. Plenty of people are doing just that.


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: rmollise]
      #6145377 - 10/18/13 06:32 PM

I have watched NSN and asked around and have found very few. I have tried my self with a couple of CGEMs. 2 min unguided at long FL is a dream for a CGEM. Video is forgiving but not that forgiving. If you have some raw screen shots I would love to see them.

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A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: Stew57]
      #6145510 - 10/18/13 07:56 PM

My CGEM can go about a minute at 1000 mm FL unguided, if my polar alignment is decent. I have not tried higher FL nor more exposure time unless I am guiding. I do not have any delusions with the CGEM, if you want to go over a minute unguided you probably have to be 600-800mm FL and using a lightweight (like under 20 pounds) scope. HOWEVER, if you are guiding, then you can easily get 3-4 minute guided exposures which for video is plenty at 1000mm FL. I have not really tried more, but if I get clear skies I will try at 2000mm FL and see what I can get.

Al


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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #6145702 - 10/18/13 10:07 PM

Ok am a C 9.25, MR-5 W 10mm spacer, so what,mmmm about 4.5 f/r off the top of my head.. Whaat was really hoping to do was be able to get 2 min unguided and decent video pics,,, some say is easily possible and are doing it,,, may be they are the lucky ones and got their mount off a good line or batch... I know you Mark have had real fits with yours it seems,, 8/3 and cogging.....They have addressed the cogging with latest firm ware per Derik,,, I have an open question to him about the 8/3 so will see on that... I am snooping in the Losmandy G-11 threads and asking questions also,,, This has to be my last mount so want to do it right and not break the bank, but do not want to overshop or overbuy as they say,,,, Have an Orion ST 80 mm to piggyback, and if ever go bigger on OTA would be 10" R/C? or C11 max
Kasey


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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6145703 - 10/18/13 10:08 PM

RATS forgot to add, would be curious how much unguided you can get Al,, thank you, Kasey

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A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6145713 - 10/18/13 10:15 PM

I will experiment tomorrow night if I get clear skies.

Al


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dragonslayer1
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM vs CGEM DX new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #6145729 - 10/18/13 10:25 PM

Thank you Al, my time is limited for viewing and it seeems lately everytime I have the chance the weather is the pits,,, and now is a full moon,,, LOL, Kasey

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