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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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JustaBoy
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Reged: 06/19/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: claudedenis]
      #6148080 - 10/20/13 09:33 AM

Hi Claude, and Welcome to Cloudy Nights!

You are more likely to get better answers on Refractor/Binoviewer questions in the Binoviewer Forum.

To answer your question: - "So,what binoviewer+refractor do the same job(and more)as United Optics 28x110 binoculars for about the same price?"

The answer is 'None', as the Binoviewer is going to cost more than that just by itself, and you will never be able to get such a wide field - The light is split into 2 parts in the binoviewer, so you will need an even larger refractor than 110mm.

Two different things, really, so maybe the New APM/APO 100mm 45 BT might be the best way to go.

Good Luck!
-Chuck


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Eric63
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/16/12

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: claudedenis]
      #6148121 - 10/20/13 10:04 AM

Bonjour Claude

I think you will find your answer here

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/1384879/...

Eric


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claudedenis
journeyman


Reged: 08/04/13

Loc: 49.45 °N - 1.03°E France
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Eric63]
      #6148216 - 10/20/13 11:09 AM

Thank you Eric for the link.
I already bought 15x70 binoculars according to professor EdZ tests and reviews.
Next step will be an apo or achromatic refractor with possibly x100 magnification.
Big binos will wait.I enjoy using the "mini giants".


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Rich V.
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Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: claudedenis]
      #6148261 - 10/20/13 11:35 AM

Hi, it's difficult for a telescope/BV to match the wide field views of a big binocular; it must have a very short focal length similar to that of binos to match them in true FOV.

To approximate the views with 28x110 binos, a 150mm f5 refractor with a binoviewer and 24mm Panoptic eyepieces (max. 1-1/4" eyepiece field stop size) would come close. This assumes that the scope/BV can come to focus working at 1x; if it needs an OCA to reach focus, there is no contest.

This scope/BV combo would give you 31x and a slightly smaller FOV than the binos (approx. 2.08 vs. 2.25) It would give you the advantage that Jon always points out about 90 viewing comfort and variable magnification.

The 110mm binos weigh ~16 lbs. while the refractor weighs around 25 lbs. Of course, mounting the 150mm achro on a simple alt/az mount would be easier than having to put the binos on a HD parallelogram mount to achieve viewing comfort near zenith. The weight of the p-gram could easily exceed a simple alt/az mount for the refractor so you come out with a net loss of portability there.

If you factor in the cost of the p-gram mount with the binos, you probably won't save much money over the scope/cheap BV/mount but I'll leave it to you to do this research...

Rich


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Jarrod
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Reged: 01/20/13

Loc: SE USA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: KarlL]
      #6148267 - 10/20/13 11:41 AM

Quote:

Does it make sense to invest in giant binos living under suburban skies?




I think so. A "reasonable" Chinese 25x100 plus a very sturdy Chinese video tripod can be had for under $500, and will show you a lot, even with moderate LP. One caveat is that you will struggle to view at, or anywhere near zenith without a significantly more expensive mount, or a binocular with 45 or 90 eyepiece/prism assemblies. Search the forum for some viewing reports, to get an idea of what you can experience.

I enjoy straight-through 25x100s, but a 20x80 or 15x70 is significantly easier to deal with, and should show you quite a bit in the city. They also show a wider field of view which is desirable for many. To me, this is the sweet spot that gives a great combo of manageability, affordability, and capability. One of my most memorable observing sessions so far was simply scanning Sagittarius and the milky way at new moon outside my suburban house (red/orange LP zone) with a 15x70. It was fantastic.


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claudedenis
journeyman


Reged: 08/04/13

Loc: 49.45 °N - 1.03°E France
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies [Re: Jarrod]
      #6148464 - 10/20/13 01:43 PM

Thank you for all the answers.
15x70 United Optics binoculars:good optical instrument for a moderate price gives so great satisfaction that one wants for more.
I must consider a 120mm,150mm refractor.


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: claudedenis]
      #6148832 - 10/20/13 06:18 PM

The 15x70mm are so inexpensive everyone should have a pair.
I say the 25x100 are rising in price. They use to cost under $200 and now they are edging upwards to $300 for low end pairs.
There's no telling if the price for these goods can remain so low. Look at what happened to the cost of Japanese optics once the quality is high.
They have skyrockets from the 70's onward.


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Rich V.
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6149002 - 10/20/13 07:45 PM

Those older model giant binos were a lot poorer quality than the newer models. I'd say that the rising prices of larger binoculars has been easily made up for by the increased quality that's available.

You can still get $65. 15x70s and $100. 20x80s; you can still also get low end 25x100s for $200. For $400., though, you can get a far superior 25x100 like the Oberwerk Deluxe. This applies to the improved 20x80s and 15x70s as well. We've never had better choices, IMO.

The low end binos are remaining pretty inexpensive. It's just now we have new generations of higher quality binos to choose from and of course, they cost more.

Rich


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edwincjones
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Reged: 04/10/04

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Rich V.]
      #6149361 - 10/21/13 07:41 AM

is anything now matching the quality of the old Tak, Fuji, or high end Nikon binoculars other than Doctor and Kowa



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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6149720 - 10/21/13 11:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes, becuse they are easier to take with you wherever you may travel.




Easier than what? Giant binoculars require a serious mount and a case. A fast refractor and see few eyepieces takes up less space and manages with a more compact mount.

Jon




I have taken my Appogee 25x100 and a camera tripod to Mauna Kea, Hawaii (where I couldn't take my 10" or 17.5" dob. I have taken my 9x63 and 15x63 orion mini giants plus smaller binos to Cancun, Mexico; where I didn't want to take the 25x100 or dobs. When we drive on vacation as a family if I can't take eith dob, I can still fit my binos in the car. Sometimes when I am too tired to set up my scope I can still quickly takes out my binos. Yes they are more portable and lightweight than my dobs. Plus some wide and or multiple objects may appear better in wideer binos than a scope. So yes giant binos are useful in suburban skies (as well as dark skies).


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6149948 - 10/21/13 02:13 PM

Quote:

I have taken my Appogee 25x100 and a camera tripod to Mauna Kea, Hawaii (where I couldn't take my 10" or 17.5" dob. I have taken my 9x63 and 15x63 orion mini giants plus smaller binos to Cancun, Mexico; where I didn't want to take the 25x100 or dobs. When we drive on vacation as a family if I can't take eith dob, I can still fit my binos in the car. Sometimes when I am too tired to set up my scope I can still quickly takes out my binos. Yes they are more portable and lightweight than my dobs. Plus some wide and or multiple objects may appear better in wideer binos than a scope. So yes giant binos are useful in suburban skies (as well as dark skies).




To me, that looks like an endorsement of large binoculars in general but not specifically for suburban skies.. Compact travel rigs.. I will take a fast 80mm refractor with a photo tripod. Good in the backyard too.

Jon


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JustaBoy
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Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6149975 - 10/21/13 02:26 PM

But Jon...This is the Binocular Forum! :-)

I do hear ya, and I would take the same, along with a 50mm or smaller binocular.

Thanks for all of your good insight,
-Chuck


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Rich V.]
      #6149985 - 10/21/13 02:33 PM

Quote:

Those older model giant binos were a lot poorer quality than the newer models. I'd say that the rising prices of larger binoculars has been easily made up for by the increased quality that's available.

Rich



Why do you say that? The older Celestron ones had bigger prisms hence less vignetting.
Also the binocs are in poor collimation just as often.
The going rate for the Celestron ones are $299 VS under $200 approx a decade ago.


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saemark30
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Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6150001 - 10/21/13 02:39 PM

Jon dollar for dollar, would you take a 80mm F/5 achromatic refractor plus tripod over the convenience of 15x70 or 25x100 binoculars?
I prefer the experience of binocular vision with both eyes, I see better and deeper.

I think the turning point for me is approx. 120mm or 5" refractor.
I would add a binoviewer. I assume we are using this for low power sweeps.


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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: KarlL]
      #6150012 - 10/21/13 02:48 PM

Quote:

Does it make sense to invest in giant binos living under suburban skies?




these could be pretty cool


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Rich V.
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Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6150038 - 10/21/13 03:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Those older model giant binos were a lot poorer quality than the newer models. I'd say that the rising prices of larger binoculars has been easily made up for by the increased quality that's available.

Rich



Why do you say that? The older Celestron ones had bigger prisms hence less vignetting.
Also the binocs are in poor collimation just as often.
The going rate for the Celestron ones are $299 VS under $200 approx a decade ago.




I'm speaking generally. You may have a old Celestron 25x100 that you really like; how different is it than the newer ones? I don't know. Many of the past "under $200." 25x100s did suffer from problems like reduced aperture, poor coatings, poor design of prism assys that leads to poor collimation, sloppy mechanical execution, etc. etc.

You can still get a $200. 25x100 if you're willing to buy into the QC lottery. I'm not all that familiar with Celestrons so I can't say how similar or different the models from ten years ago are to the current offerings. Their 15x70(63) and 20x80(72) binos are from the same source as many other low end binos then and now. I do know that a $200. bino ten years ago would cost over $250. now just due to inflation. I also know that the newer, higher quality lines of giant binos like I cited above are a definite cut above their predecessors. They cost more but you're getting a better binocular. What's wrong with that?

Rich


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aa6ww
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/23/11

Loc: Sacramento, Calif.
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: KarlL]
      #6150106 - 10/21/13 03:49 PM

I have a ton of scopes and astronomy gear, but sometimes a pair of big binoculars on a robust easy to use mount is what you want to use. I have some 25x 100IF Oberwerks and they are phenomenal for looking at large objects like the Pleiades, double or triple galaxy systems, or especially comet hunting even in my Orange Zone. The double eye effect cant be praised enough, in how comfortable it is to observe. They are also excellent terrestrial binoculars.
To me however, binoculars are a specialty item, something that doesn't get used very much, but once you have some, they are always fun options.
Sometimes I just want to spend an hr on my patio, and i pull out my large binoculars and have a good time with them. Contras is much improved with two eyes vs one, and dim objects are easier to detect in binoculars, vs the same size scope.
If you can afford a good pair, and they won't break the bank to get them, along with a good mount, they are always worth it.
Especially right now with all the comet activity going on currently.

Good luck with which ever direction you go on this subject.

...Ralph in Sac

Quote:

Does it make sense to invest in giant binos living under suburban skies? I can see virtually every star in the Dipper and its handle ( right below a street light). The light pollution is surprisingly mild to moderate. Under good seeing, the sky near the zenith is excellent.

Would screw-in light-pollution filters help in making giants worthwhile?

Regards,

Karl




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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05

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Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6150193 - 10/21/13 04:41 PM

Quote:

Jon dollar for dollar, would you take a 80mm F/5 achromatic refractor plus tripod over the convenience of 15x70 or 25x100 binoculars?



Jon has said so many, many times already so I'm really curious what he'll say this time!


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: Mark9473]
      #6150220 - 10/21/13 04:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Jon dollar for dollar, would you take a 80mm F/5 achromatic refractor plus tripod over the convenience of 15x70 or 25x100 binoculars?



Jon has said so many, many times already so I'm really curious what he'll say this time!



Really? I mean no high end ED or fluorite based objective,
just plain Celestron(Synta) refractor 80mm f/5 achromat plus heavy tripod or 25x100 binocs.


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KennyJ
The British Flash
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Reged: 04/27/03

Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Giant Binoculars and Suburban Skies new [Re: saemark30]
      #6150272 - 10/21/13 05:28 PM

There appear to be elements of either selective recall or genuine unawareness of the history of "Giant binoculars" commercially available.

My interest in 100mm binoculars goes back to a time long before any were manufactured in China, and I can remember typical prices of, for example, 14x100, 20x100 and 25x100 models made in Japan being the equivalent in REAL terms of two to three as much as even the best of the most recent Chinese made models, which are probably superior to them in every way.

Kenny


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