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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Ryuno
sage


Reged: 05/09/13

Loc: Tokyo
Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex?
      #6148731 - 10/20/13 05:15 PM Attachment (61 downloads)

I just got a Mewlon 250 CRS.
Specs:
Tube length 30" - 77 cm
Tube diameter 11" - 28 cm
Tube weight 26.5 lbs - 12 kg
OTA weight 42 lbs - 19 kg (tube, mounting rings and plates, diagonal, eyepieces and binoviewer)

Both the iEQ45 and the T-Rex should be able to carry this load without complaint (on paper). But how is reality? First of all I need a platform for visual observation, as vibration- and wobble-free as possible, so I don't need to worry if I touch the eyepiece or a little wind begins to blow..

Does anybody have experience with these or similar setups?

I need to take a decision soon...

Best regards
Heinz


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Ryuno
sage


Reged: 05/09/13

Loc: Tokyo
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6148748 - 10/20/13 05:31 PM Attachment (79 downloads)

All this (7kg/15.5 lbs) hangs on the tube too:

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mich_al
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/09

Loc: Rural central lower Michigan ...
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6149030 - 10/20/13 08:04 PM

Not a direct answer to your question but a reference point.
I have a 250 with binos on a CGEM and all is well. I'm visual only. Mine doesn't have the rings, I have a Losmandy dovetail.


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: mich_al]
      #6149047 - 10/20/13 08:19 PM Attachment (52 downloads)

The T-Rex will carry that load but there will be a little vibration/wobble when focusing due to the tripod not being of the same build strength as the mount.
The pic is a 12" Meade on my T-Rex which I decided to counter weight as I didn't want that much weight on one side of the mount - the T-Rex worked well but there was a little vibration. The lower part of the legs in particular are a bit weak when extended.

Edited by tonyt (10/20/13 08:22 PM)


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davidmcgo
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/09/04

Loc: San Diego, CA
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: tonyt]
      #6149053 - 10/20/13 08:35 PM

DiscMount DM6 on a Losmandy G11 tripod will be rock solid. I use a DM6 on a Stellarvue TSL7 stand with a 43 pound 10.25" f17 Dall Kirkham, vibration suppression pads help but are not mandatory, and counterweight is not mandatory either. Makes azimuth smoother but set up is very steady without.

With the TREX, can you get a Berlebach Planet to fit it? That with a 50cm tray for wider leg spread would be a sweet setup under your fantastic new Mewlon!

Dave

Edited by davidmcgo (10/20/13 08:36 PM)


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tomcody
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: davidmcgo]
      #6149624 - 10/21/13 10:46 AM

Quote:

DiscMount DM6 on a Losmandy G11 tripod will be rock solid.
Dave



+1 , It will be solid, and smooth, but there was a thread on the Yahoo Tak group (maybe a year ago) which has since been deleted by the moderator about a guy with a 250 Mewlon and another brand of Alt-Az mount (not the DM6) that had a lot of issues with seeing conditions and micro vibrations from his mount causing poor seeing.
I suggest with such a long focal length scope, you go with a solid GEM for best viewing: a Losmandy G11 should be your bottom choice, followed by either: Tak EM400, AP 900, Paramount MX and up. I think anything less would not be enough mount.
See John Oneill's review on AMart for comparison of the EM200/400 with the 250 Mewlon.
web page
Rex

Edited by tomcody (10/21/13 10:53 AM)


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6150475 - 10/21/13 07:43 PM

Heinz,

Is this a setup you want to travel with? Will this be a replacement for your z25?

Mike


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Enyo
member


Reged: 05/15/03

Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Mkofski]
      #6150575 - 10/21/13 08:53 PM

Heinz have you talked to Barry at Kokusai Kohki? The T-Rex came out a while after he had a chance to play with my DM6 for a few days. I suspect he could even put you in touch with someone using the same setup.

John


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rgsalinger
super member
*****

Reged: 02/19/07

Loc: Carlsbad Ca
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Enyo]
      #6151528 - 10/22/13 11:39 AM

I have an 8" RC and with camera, etc the load comes to around 32 pounds. The problem I have found is with guiding at 1600mm of focal length, not weight. I can get around .7 or .8 arc seconds but I also get oscillations from time to time that ruin my subs. I've gone back to using my shorter focal length refractor until my new AP mount arrives as a result. I don't recommend the iEQ for anything over 1000 mm.
Note that I am using an SBIG OAG and STi for guiding which is a pretty good setup!
Rgrds-Ross


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Ryuno
sage


Reged: 05/09/13

Loc: Tokyo
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: rgsalinger]
      #6151556 - 10/22/13 11:57 AM

Hi again and thank you so much for your answers. They were really useful, because they covered all aspects of the matter.
Thus, they were a good basis for taking a decision. I considered all solutions.
My criteria were:
1. Price below 2000 $ (the hole in my wallet after the M250 was too big for buying a more expensive mount)
2. Portability, if possible, not airplane overhead compartment, but train (suitcase). It should be possible to carry the suitcase up and down the stairs at train stations, and get it to the station somehow.
3. Stability. As little vibrations as possible at higher magnifications. AP not so important at this time.
4. Slow motion controls, if possible, as well as setting circles or (ideally) goto, but the latter was not an absolute criterion.

- Tom proposed a G11, EM400, AP900 (now Mach1) or Paramount. Especially one of the last three would be a dream mount covering everything including stability for visual and AP, as well as goto. But the don't meet criteria 1 and partly 2. The Mach 1 would still be portable at 13 kg plus counterweights. I think, whenever my funds are filled up again, I'll get a Mach 1.

- Ross advised against the iEQ45. I had the suspicion already, this mount might not be beefy enough for the Mewlon. This weekend I'll try it as an alternative for the ZEQ25 with the CN-212 at the shop of my dealer.

- Dave proposed a DM6 on a Losmandy tripod. I considered this mount seriously, because it looked so rock solid and really beautiful, but at the end the lack of slow motion controls was the deal breaker for me.
I had a look at the Berlebach. Seems rock solid to me and beautiful, a little on the heavy side though. The Losmandy tripod is obviously also very solid and absolutely beautiful. It would be a perfect match for the T-Rex, but also quite heavy. Another possibility would be a Rob Miller tripod, if they are still available. A wonderful alternative would also be the TTS-160 Panther Alt-Az mount and tripod by Trackthestars in Denmark. http://trackthestars.com Simply amazing! If I had the funds, I would get it right away.
I think, I'll try the stock tripod first and if that does not work, consider other options.

- This obviously left me with the T-Rex, although the M250 with all accessories is at the limit of it's load capacity. But Tony's OTA is not lighter than mine, so the M250 should be ok, I thought. Extremely beautiful setup, Tony!
So, I talked to Barry of Kokusai Kohki, as John recommended, and he assured me the T-Rex should have no trouble carrying this scope. He just said that, as the weight of the M250 with all the things on the picture above is at the limit of the load capacity of the mount, I might need a counterweight, like Tony, but that most probably I won't. So I took the jump and ordered the mount, in white, because the Mewlon is white too. I like especially the slow motion control, which is missing in the DM6. The T-Rex will soon get a tracking motor, made by Avalon, and in the not so far future even full Goto. And I have the maker just around the corner, so to speak, (see below) which is a very good thing.
The T-Rex was in stock and is due to arrive tomorrow!! (Kyoto is only two hours away from Tokyo). Very exciting. I hope I can sleep tonight. I'll keep you up to date about how the mount performs with the M250.
If it is really insufficient for the M250, I can always use it for the second CN-212 and get a DM6 for the Mewlon.

"Is this a setup you want to travel with? Will this be a replacement for your z25?"

Yes, Mike, if possible, I want to put the mount and all other things in a suitcase, and carry the tube in a backpack. I tried the Fusion Bass-Trombone backpack, which I bought for the CN-212, with the Mewlon, but it was no fit. The backpack was too small. I'll now have a look at tuba-backpacks. A certain resemblance of the M250 with tuba cannot be denied, can it.

About my solution for the CN-212 I wrote a report for CN, which you can read here, if you are interested:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2919

By the way, the Mewlon 250 arrived during a minor Taifun. Good things seem to happen during Taifuns in Japan, just like my wedding one month ago. The hurricane started at the beginning of the wedding and ended at the end of it.

For now Good Night, it's already 1:30 am.
Heinz

p.s. Good morning, it's 6:30 am in Japan. Today is a day off, and I can sleep another round later, after the T-Rex has arrived and is set up. I'll post a photo.


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Ryuno
sage


Reged: 05/09/13

Loc: Tokyo
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6153145 - 10/23/13 08:35 AM

T-Rex is delayed until Friday.
Heinz


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6154219 - 10/23/13 06:43 PM Attachment (28 downloads)

Quote:

But Tony's OTA is not lighter than mine, so the M250 should be ok, I thought. Extremely beautiful setup, Tony!





Thanks Heinz. That Mewlon won't look too shabby on the T-Rex either. I found that a 10" SCT didn't need a CW, the 12" definitely did and a C11 was borderline (could go either way). The width of the tube is a factor in addition to the weight.

I've owned the T-Rex and Discmount DM-6 together and the slow motion controls are an advantage with shorter tubes, while a long refractor makes the choice between the mounts more difficult. I'm sure you'll be happy with the T-Rex.

Here's another pic:

Edited by tonyt (10/23/13 06:46 PM)


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Ryuno
sage


Reged: 05/09/13

Loc: Tokyo
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: tonyt]
      #6154550 - 10/23/13 10:40 PM

Tony, what's the weight of your OTA on the picture, and how much CW are you using?
Barry said he has CW-shaft which fits into the existing hole in the T-Rex. Tomorrow I can try the setup. I am already excited. While yours is all black in black, very elegant, I ordered a white mount for the white Mewlon.

Best regars


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Patrick
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/16/03

Loc: Franklin, Ohio
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6154618 - 10/23/13 11:45 PM

I have a CGEM and a T-Rex for comparison. I put my Edge HD 8 and a small refractor on both of them without issues as far as vibration goes. The real question I think you need to address is whether or not you want tracking. The T-Rex sets up a little quicker than a mid sized mount and it's certainly easier to transport than the IEQ45 would be. But you trade that portability for tracking. Just make sure you're okay without it if you decide to go the T-Rex route.

Patrick


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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6154631 - 10/23/13 11:59 PM

I don't have the 12" now, but from memory the OTA weighed about 44 pounds ready to observe, with 30 pounds of CW.

I prefer white since it's easier to see in the dark and avoid running into; that's why I painted the CW's white.

Edited by tonyt (10/24/13 12:02 AM)


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Kunama
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/22/12

Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: tonyt]
      #6154643 - 10/24/13 12:12 AM

Looking forward to the pics Heinz, my next purchase will also be the Mewlon 250 to go on my T-Rex. At the moment I have my TSA120/FS60CB combo on it. It is such a good manual mount.
I changed the saddle for a Robin Casady 8" EM Saddle and paired it with the 14" Casady EM Dovetail bar. Beautifully built items.



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Ryuno
sage


Reged: 05/09/13

Loc: Tokyo
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Kunama]
      #6157181 - 10/25/13 10:44 AM Attachment (54 downloads)

Thank you, Tony.

You have a really beautiful setup there, Matt.

Patrick, from next month, tracking for the T-Rex will be available as an upgrade, made by Avalon. I think this is a great addition, and it helped me taking the decision in favour of the T-Rex.

I just tried the Mewlon 250 with the T-Rex. No problem, the mount can handle the weight easily, even without counterweight. However, it seems to be important to balance the OTA in altitude, otherwise the altitude slow motion control becomes hard to turn.

Unfortunately the climate change has hit Tokyo hard this year. Normally, September is the typhoon month, but this year it seems to be October, because one typhoon after the other is arriving, bringing with them torrential rain falls, and of course no stars. Right now, I am sitting in the middle of one. That's why I only could try the Mewlon 250 terrestrially with the T Rex. The mount is very stable, much more so than the ZEQ25 by iOptron. of course it has no go to, but, as I mentioned above, tracking will be available soon. At very high magnifications, over 200x, some vibration is there. I used it with the 5 mm Takahashi LE eyepiece, resulting in the magnification of 500x. there was a permanent small vibration, making observations somehow unpleasant, but not impossible.
Mounting the scope I made a little mistake. As you can see, the Altitude slow motion handle is pointing upwards, where it should be pointing towards the observer. Next time I attach the scope I will have to turn it 90° in Altitude. it is actually rather difficult to mount the scope by yourself without dropping it. You would normally need a second person to help you. The reason being that you can't turn the mounting plate into a horizontal position. This might be something for the designer to consider. I am now afraid to take the telescope off the T-Rex.
Regarding counterweight, using one is not absolutely necessary, but I think I am going to use at least one small counterweight to be on the safe side, because it is of course much easier to topple the whole setup towards the side of the telescope, And right now I don't have the complete confidence that nothing is going to happen.

I am posting two pictures of my new setup. I have now a little Takahashi family, with father Mewlon, mother CN-212, son Sky 90, and grandmother on the floor, who has nothing to mount yet. Grandmother will probably get an iEQ45 as a partner, as soon as my bank account has reached a certain level again. Right now there are too many holes.

Best regards
Heinz

Update Sat 26.Oct. 2:15 a.m.: We just had a rather scary earthquake, a very long one, 2-3 min. I jumped up and only had one thing in mind: to keep the T-Rex with my new Mewlon from toppling over. Fortunately the earthquake stayed mid level and did not get really dangerous. Tomorrow I'll take the scopes down. If a stronger one comes, in the worst case I could be killed in my sleep when a scope crushes my head. Not the worst death for an amateur astronomer, is it?

Edited by Ryuno (10/25/13 01:24 PM)


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Ryuno
sage


Reged: 05/09/13

Loc: Tokyo
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6157191 - 10/25/13 10:49 AM Attachment (57 downloads)

Here another perspective:

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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: Ryuno]
      #6157280 - 10/25/13 11:40 AM

Can I come over to play?!?!

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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: Mewlon 250 CRS - iEQ45 or T-Rex? new [Re: t.r.]
      #6159714 - 10/26/13 07:43 PM

The length of that Mewlon makes it look like a monster on the T-Rex Heinz. Personally I would use some counterweight.

Mounting the tube is much easier with a Losmandy style dovetail and saddle. The lower edge of the dovetail rests in the lower jaw of the saddle while you reach over the tube to tighten the saddle knobs, holding the tube against your chest with one arm.
It would be nice to dispense with the weight of the Tak mounting plate and replace it with a Losmandy dovetail if you can adapt it to the rings - you could get two flat bars made up to mate the end of the dovetail to the Tak rings.

Alternatively you could try having the rings the other way around so they close at the top and you can see the knob when closing the rings and tightening them - that might be easy enough.


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