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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: turtle86]
      #6149622 - 10/21/13 10:45 AM

Rob, their German order link is as international as it gets

As far as I know, they added ALL overseas countries to their dropdown country list, check here (no Google Translator needed):

Order link Premium Version

To give an example for a buyer located in the U.S.A.: Just fill in the forename at "Vorname", name at "Nachname", street and street number at "Strasse/Hausnr.", zip code and town at "PLZ/Ort". Then click on the dropdown button next to "Land" (country) which opens the country list, scroll down and click on "Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika" (United States of America). Fill the e-mail address field, confirm the units ordered at "Menge" (units). Finish by clicking below on "Premiumversion sofort kaufen" and you are done! As easy as it gets.

After placing the order, a confirmation e-mail is sent to the buyer's e-mail address. Any e-mailed questions may be asked and will be responded in English language.

They are cool enough to ship without prepayment (!), at least to European customers (I do not know if this policy applies to overseas customers too, but I think so). They trust in their customers. Who else on the market still does this kind of customer-friendly service of decades long ago...

Stephan


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pjglad
sage


Reged: 01/29/11

Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: turtle86]
      #6149758 - 10/21/13 12:08 PM

I do not know much about paper weight. Is the normal version kind of like Uranometria grade paper?

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Ragaisis
sage
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Reged: 05/16/08

Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: turtle86]
      #6149759 - 10/21/13 12:09 PM

Given it's an sky atlas, not having it entirely in English really isn't a big deal. I can interpolate fairly easily. So that's not an issue.

It's just a matter if I want to spend $180 (and then shipping would be added).

Chris


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Happy Birthday esd726
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 09/30/04

Loc: Rochester, IN
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Ragaisis]
      #6149770 - 10/21/13 12:13 PM

Quote:

Given it's an sky atlas, not having it entirely in English really isn't a big deal. I can interpolate fairly easily. So that's not an issue.

It's just a matter if I want to spend $180 (and then shipping would be added).

Chris



This is how I feel also. I think it LOOKS great, but I don't have that much $ just laying around, esp to use on another atlas .


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #6149824 - 10/21/13 12:34 PM

Quote:

For the most part, a very attractive offering.

I like how emission and reflection nebulae are color coded red and blue, respectively. (I insisted upon such a scheme back in 2002 when involved with the Desktop Universe software project.)

Oddly, while exceedingly low surface nebulosities are outlined, the brighter specimens often have 'shrunken' outlines, perhaps confining to the brighter isophote. (The Heart nebula, IC1805, is a good example.) I would prefer to see a 'fuller' size, even if it means an additional and different color outline to reflect the fainter extent.

I noted that the symbol for Stock 23 (Pazmino's cluster) is noticeably offset from the stellar group. Makes me wonder if some catalogue data are older and still containing innaccurate positions.

I prefer to not have 'common' DSO name labels printed in addition to the catalog ID, although here it doesn't seem to result in bad clutter.




I also like the distinction is color symbos of reflection, emission, and dark nebulae. I like the attempt to show how easy or hart an objects apparent magnitude is (darker for smaller scopes vs. fainter for larger scopes required). This may be a first.

Do they have an engish legend, etc?


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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Ragaisis]
      #6149855 - 10/21/13 12:59 PM

Quote:

It's just a matter if I want to spend $180 (and then shipping would be added).

Chris




Chris,

You are refering to the Premium Version. On export orders from outside the European Community, the German VAT will be deducted. The net export price of the Premium Version w/o VAT is EUR 121.40 (USD 166.00), plus shipping. Oculum's service is very customer-oriented, on overseas orders they automatically choose the most economical carrier.

Stephan


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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: pjglad]
      #6149861 - 10/21/13 01:03 PM

Quote:

I do not know much about paper weight. Is the normal version kind of like Uranometria grade paper?




pjglad,

The Normal Version uses a high-grade smooth-coated Offset paper, its paper weight is heavier than the paper used for Uranometria.

Stephan


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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6149892 - 10/21/13 01:25 PM

Quote:

Do they have an engish legend, etc?




faackanders2,

Not yet, but perhaps they will print one in English, if enough customers ask for it.

Checking the double-sided Legend, I would venture to say that the symbols are fairly well-understandable also for non-German speaking users. At least as long until an english Legend will be available.

Stephan


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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #6150060 - 10/21/13 03:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I do not know much about paper weight. Is the normal version kind of like Uranometria grade paper?




pjglad, the Normal Version uses a high-grade smooth-coated Offset paper, its paper weight is heavier than the paper used for Uranometria.

Stephan




An update on the paper weight of the Normal Version.

I did some measurements for you: Total Atlas weight of 1,415 grams, less estimated weight for spiral binding and cover, divided by total paper used for one Atlas (132 pages 26x28cm = 9.61m2) results in a paper weight of 140g/m2. Hope this helps.

Stephan


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obrazell
super member


Reged: 04/03/05

Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #6151026 - 10/22/13 02:46 AM

I bought mine through Amazon. You might want to check its availability there.

Owen


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macpurity
super member


Reged: 10/24/04

Loc: Quad Cities, Iowa, USA
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: obrazell]
      #6151807 - 10/22/13 02:35 PM

It can be found on the UK and DE Amazon sites. Not yet on the US site from Amazon directly.

Another resource is The Book Depository out of the UK. I just purchased the premium paper version for US$135.21 with free international shipping.

Edited by macpurity (10/22/13 03:58 PM)


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core
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/23/08

Loc: Mostly in Norman, OK
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! [Re: macpurity]
      #6154779 - 10/24/13 03:15 AM

Stephan,

Thanks for bringing the atlas to our attention; even with the German text, I'm rather intrigued by it, and I've been musing over the samples; seems quite self-explanatory even for non-speakers. I *am* tempted - think I'll email them to see if an English edition is in the works ...


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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: core]
      #6154989 - 10/24/13 08:41 AM

Peter,

Glad you like it. After having purchased this new Deep Sky Atlas, I felt very impressed and thought this one deserves praise. This was the reason to start this thread and to share my experience with this outstanding new publication here on CN, and answering to my best knowledge to all questions that arose in the meantime.

As a Swiss, I am perfectly happy with the German edition, but I hope that the publisher will also consider an English edition, for all of my fellow deep sky map lovers here on CN and the rest of the world, who really want to see it with an English legend & introduction.

Stephan


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Pollux556
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/14/08

Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! *DELETED* new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #6156044 - 10/24/13 06:02 PM

Post deleted by Pollux556

Edited by Pollux556 (10/24/13 09:33 PM)


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Happy Birthday esd726
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 09/30/04

Loc: Rochester, IN
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Pollux556]
      #6156125 - 10/24/13 06:45 PM

Nice . Like I said before, I wish I had enough to spend on it to get it. It doesn't REALLY bother me that it's not in English. From the pictures, the objects on the actual charts are enough in English (plus knowing what is there also helps when NOT in English) to make it look like a VERY nice addition to my other atlases. Just don't have that sort of $ just sitting around that I COULD spend on another one right now .

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Pollux556
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/14/08

Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #6157777 - 10/25/13 04:37 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

For fun, I compared the double cluster in Perseus with GAOTS.

Edit: Not necessarily in scale.

Edited by Pollux556 (10/25/13 04:38 PM)


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Pollux556]
      #6157858 - 10/25/13 05:18 PM

Well, this would appear to be a decent atlas for 8" and down or for larger instruments used in heavy light pollution.
But Uranometria 2000.0 (now compressed to 1 volume) has over twice the DSO count and STILL comes up shy of displaying what CAN be seen in a 12.5" under dark skies.
I would contend that if the atlas is oriented to the visual observer it should show at least the number of objects visible in that aperture in perfect conditions, even if most observers won't see all the objects, because you never know what will or won't be visible to a particular observer.
That means this would be a decent atlas for a 4-8" scope owner, but not really adequate for larger scopes.
So that means it covers a lot of ground already covered by other atlases.
What is lacking is the printed atlas for, say, an 18" scope in pristine skies (probably over 100,000 DSOs). There was going to be one, but it never found a publisher (too small a target audience, computer atlases taking over, etc.).
Still, this looks nice, and I admire the creator for making another decent atlas available.


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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Starman1]
      #6158594 - 10/26/13 02:58 AM

Quote:

Well, this would appear to be a decent atlas for 8" and down or for larger instruments used in heavy light pollution.
But Uranometria 2000.0 (now compressed to 1 volume) has over twice the DSO count and STILL comes up shy of displaying what CAN be seen in a 12.5" under dark skies.
I would contend that if the atlas is oriented to the visual observer it should show at least the number of objects visible in that aperture in perfect conditions, even if most observers won't see all the objects, because you never know what will or won't be visible to a particular observer.
That means this would be a decent atlas for a 4-8" scope owner, but not really adequate for larger scopes.





Don,

The Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas is meant for 4-12" scope owners.

The publisher states under FAQ (scroll down to 5th question), that the visibility categories in the Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas are calculed for a typical rural sky with naked eye limiting magnitude of 6.5, for experienced observers.

With regard to the object selection, the publisher gives under Philosophie (Philosophy) the following informations as stated below. I traduced the original text of points 1.) & 2.), which refers to the object selection and visibility by aperture, from German to English:

"1.) Object Selection:
Quality, not quantity - conventional star atlases show deep sky objects regardless of whether they are visually visible or not. Usually much too many objects are listed that can not be seen. In contrast, others that are quite achievable with typical amateur telescopes are missing. The Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas shows only objects that are visually observable fact - and therefore significantly less than similar atlases. The maps are therefore exempt from invisible targets and show what is actually seen - more than 15,000 deep-sky objects."

"2.) Visibility Categories:
In the Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas all objects are registered by their actual visual visibility for telescope apertures of 4"(100mm), 8" (200mm) and 12" (300mm), so you can be sure therefore, that an object actually is visible when you look for it. They also recognize at first glance which objects might by difficult to be seen (also under a mag 6.5 sky). The visual observability for the three aperture categories was calculated with "Eye & Telescope" software and is matched to a typical country sky (mag 6.5 as specified above), hardly visible borderline cases were sorted out. This review is based solely on the overall brightness of the object, based on a complex algorithm that has been proven at "Eye & Telescope" for more than 10 years. Results of selection were compared with the 15,000 in the "Deep-Sky-List" documented observations and corrected accordingly. In addition to the three visibility categories, special challenges and objects for apertures over 12.5" are listed."


Stephan


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #6158959 - 10/26/13 11:12 AM

Stephan,

Yes, I read that, but I disagree with the author's understanding of what is and isn't visible for a particular aperture.

What this gets to is an understanding of how to create a "visibility index" of what is visible and what is not visible in a particular aperture. This has been discussed extensively over the years by many people here on Cloudy Nights. And the conclusions we came to was that it was nearly impossible to do so. A ranking by total integrated magnitude didn't make sense because some faint objects ranked higher than some bright ones. A ranking by surface brightness didn't make sense because it favored small objects over large ones even if the large one was more visible (or even visible to the naked eye!).

So how did the authors decide what was visible in a particular aperture? By viewing all 15,000 objects? I doubt it.
Here is my discussion of how ranking objects by visibility fails:
http://www.eyepiecesetc.com/DSO_Visibility_Index_p/visibility-index.htm
(see Extended Information" for the article).

So it is my guess they used integrated magnitude to decide what was and wasn't visible in a particular aperture, and this doesn't even come close for galaxies alone and works very poorly for any form of extended nebula.

Last is the understanding of just exactly what is the limit of a particular aperture.

For instance, for stars, a 4" under absolutely perfect conditions may reach magnitude 15.0. Under bad conditions, as low as magnitude 10.5. Needless to say, the deep sky objects that can be viewed in the first set of conditions will be radically different than in the second set of conditions.

The author of the atlas used a rule to decide what was and wasn't going to be visible in a particular aperture of scope and, like the authors of the Millenium Sky Atlas, chose to be quite conservative. I would argue that a star atlas for visual use should contain all the objects possibly visible in perfect conditions for whatever aperture at which the atlas is aimed.

In my experience in the field over 50 years of observing, I think the authors erred on the side of conservatism in their choice of objects.
Uranometria has >31,000 objects shown on the charts and I am continually discovering that objects not on the charts are visible in my 12.5". When I had an 8", I noticed the same thing when using other atlases. When I got rid of my 8", I had 9300 objects in my log and had barely scratched the surface of the UMA-CVN-CBR-VIR area. I also noticed that a lot of objects were visible in the 8" that shouldn't have been, based on magnitude. So I stopped paying attention to visibility estimates and assumed I could see an object unless proven otherwise.

There isn't a problem with having an object listed that isn't visible in a particular aperture in poor conditions. It just pushes the observer to look for the object when conditions are better or when they have more experience in viewing objects at the limit. It's very upsetting to an observer to continually see objects that aren't in his charts, however. Then, tracking down the identification of the object becomes a chore--a pleasant chore, perhaps, but a chore nonetheless. Better to show more objects than can be seen at first, but which can be ferreted out by observing longer or returning to the site under better conditions.

Hence, I think this will be a great atlas for the 4" to 8" scope owner. For the 12" and larger scope, though? Not so great, in my opinion.


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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: Interstellarum DEEP SKY ATLAS - It is here! new [Re: Starman1]
      #6159224 - 10/26/13 01:51 PM

This nicely demonstrates how different people are. I want an atlas to show what I can almost certainly see - to go deeper I can always use Cartes du Ciel. The main problem I've been having with printed atlases is that I need/want a "small atlas" DSO selection on a "big atlas" scale. This Interstellarium atlas is really coming close to my ideal atlas. I'm just waiting a bit to see if international interest is sufficient to get an English version anytime soon.

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