Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Astrophotography and Sketching >> Film Astrophotography

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
nodalpoint
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/03/13

Loc: FEMA camp
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6152406 - 10/22/13 08:20 PM

Just noticed this thread. Kona, awesome work. Great to see you using your view camera. I've been thinking of throwing my 4x5 on my mount and having some fun.

I'm a professional myself with a fine arts background and know at least one well-known, highly regarded artist doing similar work who's widely exhibited and at the top of the food chain. Plus, a young artist I spoke with recently was inquiring about just the kind of thing you're doing in order to make images to use in combination with other work. So what you're doing is great and I want to see more!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kona
member
*****

Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: nodalpoint]
      #6156454 - 10/24/13 09:58 PM

Thanks kindly NodalPoint. Glad to hear my efforts have been of inspiration to you.

I also use my 4x5 camera for general photo work and landscapes (Ansel Adams type stuff, even the paper and chemistry) so I don't use the camera solely for astrophotography.

Who's this well known artist? It would be interesting to see what's being done on that level.

(Professional = actually getting paid for your work!)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Kona]
      #6156538 - 10/24/13 10:53 PM

Thanks for your posts. I've gotten into medium and large format the last year or so though not yet for astro work. I have a Sinar C 4x5.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kona
member
*****

Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Large format astrophotography [Re: gillmj24]
      #6159415 - 10/26/13 03:53 PM

Thank you Gillmj. Good to see folks interested in MF and LF!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Michal1
sage


Reged: 07/25/10

Loc: Czech Republic, Central Europe
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Kona]
      #6185228 - 11/09/13 06:35 PM

Another large format user. Wow!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Michal1]
      #6185357 - 11/09/13 08:02 PM

Nice find Michal. Looks like some fine work. Looonnnggg exposures for sure.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hikari
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/05/11

Loc: Maine, USA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6206709 - 11/20/13 11:26 PM

Fuji made 400mm and 600mm telephoto 4x5 view camera lenses, so 300mm is not the upper limit. Since they are telephoto designs, the flange distance is less than the focal length. The 400mm I believe has a shorter flange distance than the 300mm. They also produced a 1,200mm lens, but at f/24, it is slow.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kona
member
*****

Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Hikari]
      #6207766 - 11/21/13 03:29 PM Attachment (38 downloads)

Certainly Hikari! There are definitely longer lenses out there--I put forward 300mm merely as the most practical limit in terms of what a standard large format camera can handle and the availability of the lenses. Likewise, a camera with a 300 will readily work on the majority of equatorial mounts as it will be in the four to ten pound weight range.

Anything over 300 is definitely in the area of specialized use. The lenses are unusual and harder to find. Extra long bellows beyond the normal are needed as is physical extension of the camera. Vibration becomes an issue at these magnifications, so extra-solid camera support is also mandatory.

As an example I've attached a photo of my 600mm f/9 telephoto lens. To make this optic work it needs a minimum of 480mm of bellows. To focus closer than infinity (such as landscapes), it needs even more bellows than that. The lens by itself is five pounds. The metal camera and extra fittings place the whole setup around twenty pounds of weight. The camera assembly in its entirety is over two feet long--for a camera that's not compact by any means. At this magnification vibration in the system can easily render the image on film unsharp so it also needs very solid support.

To use this lens for astrophotography it would need a substantial equatorial mount far more robust than what I have. While the requirements of this lens on a camera are tough, it is an amazing optic. (This lens allows me to isolate details in landscape photos with great clarity). Yet it's not for everyone--one look at the setup readily shows the extraordinary requirements needed for a long focal length optic.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
whwang
sage


Reged: 03/20/13

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Kona]
      #6208895 - 11/22/13 08:20 AM

Wow. This is very impressive, Kona.

I quit film astrophotography not a long while ago. Until 2009, I shoot medium format. The reason is exactly what you said, print quality (although I don't do real dark room work myself). I thought about going to large format for years, but I'd never pulled the trigger, primarily because the limited choices of films. Another reason is the worry of camera flexure. I was not convinced that large format cameras can be rigid enough for hour-long exposures. (Your results proves me wrong.) To overcome this, I was thinking about making an astrophoto-only large format camera without using any moving parts like the monorail. I never had a chance to actually do this. On the other hand, I mosaicked digitized medium format images (from 2 6x7 images, to mosaics as large as 20 6x7 images) to achieve the print quality that's equivalent to large formats.

Now I am a completely digital shooter, but your pictures remind me the good old days. Hope one day I will pick up film again. Please do share with us if you make new pictures.

Cheers,
Wei-Hao


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
galaxy_jason
Vendor


Reged: 05/22/07

Loc: Texas
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Kona]
      #6209086 - 11/22/13 10:10 AM

That is going to flex like crazy during a long exposure on a moving mount. Not only flex relative to the tracking mount but the lens relative to the film plan

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kona
member
*****

Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: galaxy_jason]
      #6209745 - 11/22/13 03:48 PM

Thanks Wei-Hao! Much appreciated to hear your thoughts.

Jason, that's very likely true. That a normal large format camera with all the moving and folding parts can be used at all for astrophotography still strikes me as amazing. Every instinct would say it couldn't be done and yet surprisingly it can.

The 600 is an extreme example. It's a seriously long lens on a 4x5 and rare to see. Its use is within possibility yet I figure with my equatorial mount it would also be about as stable as a tank balancing on toothpicks. That's why I suggested 300mm as the comfortable and practical limit. I've successfully used my 300mm f/5.6 (pictured at the beginning of the thread) for years without problems.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
gillmj24
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Kona]
      #6216615 - 11/26/13 08:00 AM

Is it an 8x10 lens?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hikari
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/05/11

Loc: Maine, USA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: gillmj24]
      #6217320 - 11/26/13 02:22 PM

Kona, the Horseman is a fine camera and the 600mm a fine lens.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kona
member
*****

Reged: 10/22/08

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Hikari]
      #6220606 - 11/28/13 12:46 AM

Sure is Gillmj! I primarily use it on the 4x5.

Thanks for the compliment Hikari. The Horseman camera is a pleasure to work with. It's my hope to continue to put it to good use for many, many more years to come.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sc hokie
member


Reged: 08/16/09

Loc: Greenville, SC, USA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #6237510 - 12/06/13 02:16 PM

Very nice presentation! Definitely food for thought.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mopman
sage
*****

Reged: 10/14/06

Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: sc hokie]
      #6242913 - 12/09/13 03:32 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

Thanks KONA! You motivated me to assemble my f4 / 24" 4x5 film camera. I drug it out last night and it does seem to focus and have resonably decent optics. You can't see it in the attached pic, but it has an old 2.7" AP focuser. Hopefully images to follow soon (weather is not looking good). Gary

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Mopman]
      #6244136 - 12/10/13 06:10 AM

Looks like a solid setup. Load some Acros 100 in it and make some wide-fields for us to gawk at! Does the 2.7" focuser allow full 4x5 coverage?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mopman
sage
*****

Reged: 10/14/06

Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6244425 - 12/10/13 10:22 AM

That is a very good question!!! I could not tell in the driveway, bye eye, what the image covered. It was 10* F with wind ... I'm sure the neighbors think I am insane I might start with HP-5 that I need to burn up; Acros 100 is on my list to Santa though. BTW, this setup has a nifty shutter (air bulb control) and the AP focuser should allow attaching other goodies (flattener, filters, Barlow). Thanks for the encouragment Nightfly. I sure love your work. Gary

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Mopman]
      #6245498 - 12/10/13 06:51 PM

Your too kind Gary. I've been off film for over a year. Lots of things actually. Back again soon.

The 2.7 focuser worked well for 6x7 work if I remember correctly. I think the 4" focuser was used for 4"x5". Either way, I'd like to see what your getting with this setup. I've contemplated a project using a fast Aero Ektar or equivelent lens and a rigid lensholder with 4x5 film holder.

Post 'em when you get 'em.

Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hikari
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/05/11

Loc: Maine, USA
Re: Large format astrophotography new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6245745 - 12/10/13 08:47 PM

4" focuser is for medium-format 6x7. You will a 6" focuser for 4x5.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
0 registered and 3 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  1965healy, WOBentley 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 4574

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics