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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: Chopin]
      #6189734 - 11/11/13 11:21 PM

Hi, Jason R...

Yea, start with Rigel. The main problem seeing the Pup is atmospheric and telescopic glare. Here in the tropics, we have a lot of humidity and tend to have a lot of aerosol induced "nimbus." Can't do anything about that, really, but sky transparency seems very important. As well, one should eliminate as much optical glare as possible, say with a good eyepiece, good cleaning, nice coatings, flocking, or what have you.

I think I am right on the verge of observing it, tantalizing glimpses of - maybe - something. Maybe sweat and perseverance will overcome all adversity? Make what's impossible - possible? I sure hope so, otherwise we should abandon all hope. (I'm not quite there, yet...)

See here.


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6189893 - 11/12/13 02:09 AM

Quote:

As well, one should eliminate as much optical glare as possible, say with a good eyepiece, good cleaning, nice coatings, flocking, or what have you.




My Astroview came with a dust cap that has a knock out center piece which effectively reduces my aperture to 1" (I think). This seriously reduces the glare from brighter objects by cutting down incoming light. I'm thinking this might help with Sirius A/B, but I'm also wondering if the reduction in light might also render B more difficult to detect?

Under my Bortle 7 sky, Mag 10 objects are often AV only. If the article that Jason posted is accurate and the Pup is rated at Mag 11, I very well might not be able to detect it even if it were sitting up there by itself with no offending glare.

Hmmm...

-stray-


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: stray1]
      #6189940 - 11/12/13 03:09 AM

Im away playing pool, but I think the pup is 8th or slightly dimmer.

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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6189951 - 11/12/13 03:29 AM

Quote:

Im away playing pool, but I think the pup is 8th or slightly dimmer.




Yeah, I was looking at separation (3-11)...duh on me. The Pup is rated at 8.3. If so...it...is...mine...

Playing pool?

You must be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyhJ69mD7xI



-s-


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: stray1]
      #6190013 - 11/12/13 05:41 AM

Gaaa! "The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Bad to the Bone...LOL. I used to be, actually a body guard/ eye candy/side kick for a gay stand up comic. Until I *BLEEP* off one bar owner. Long story...but one of those stories you might tell your grand kids. Or not. So, yea, used to be...now just kind of getting old nerding out. hehe

Edited by Asbytec (11/12/13 05:44 AM)


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Andrev
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/08/11

Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6190115 - 11/12/13 08:13 AM

Wow, 51 degrees high. Thats something.

Hey Norme, you had no problem with the super typhoon ?

Andre


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6190668 - 11/12/13 01:06 PM

Quote:

Hi, Jason R...

Yea, start with Rigel. The main problem seeing the Pup is atmospheric and telescopic glare. Here in the tropics, we have a lot of humidity and tend to have a lot of aerosol induced "nimbus." Can't do anything about that, really, but sky transparency seems very important. As well, one should eliminate as much optical glare as possible, say with a good eyepiece, good cleaning, nice coatings, flocking, or what have you.

I think I am right on the verge of observing it, tantalizing glimpses of - maybe - something. Maybe sweat and perseverance will overcome all adversity? Make what's impossible - possible? I sure hope so, otherwise we should abandon all hope. (I'm not quite there, yet...)

See here.




Thanks for that link, Norme. I know it's slightly unrelated to this thread, but I had no idea there was an SQM for the iPhone. Must have...


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: Chopin]
      #6191425 - 11/12/13 07:28 PM

Yea, get that dark sky meter. It looks like a must have, but apparently not for Android.

Andre, the folks a few hundred miles south of us took the brunt of the storm. Worst we got, fortunately, was light winds and a bit of rain. It was nothing, especially compared to those folks further south.


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6192029 - 11/13/13 03:21 AM

Well, not "mine" exactly...not yet...

Anyway, I spent about an hour this morning glassing Sirius. I used both UO Orthos and Celestron Plossls of various magnification; red, blue, orange, and moon filters (and without filters (of course); and tried viewing with and without a mask over the dew shield.

Of the 30+ times I observed Sirius drift out of FOV there were 3 or 4 that I thought that I detected a tiny point of light following. This "might" have been the Pup but it could just as easily been an "artifact" caused by a fading diffraction ring or something left over from Sirius' glare.



-stray-


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Achernar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6193308 - 11/13/13 06:57 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

I did this drawing of Sirius A and B, and it'll give you a pretty good idea of what to look for. Look for an ice blue faint pip of light following Sirius A, that is the white dwarf. Rigel is a good object to test the seeing before trying the much more difficult Sirius B. If you don't find it, there is 40 Eridani which contains the only easy white dwarf to see, and it belongs to a triple star system where a orange dwarf is orbited by a white dwarf, itself orbited by a red dwarf. The whole system is just 16 light years away which results in 40 Eridani B having an apparent magnitude of 10. It is some 82 arc seconds away from 40 Eridani A, which does not interfere with seeing either the B or C star which is a very low mass red dwarf with a magnitude of 12.

Taras


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: Achernar]
      #6194045 - 11/14/13 07:11 AM

Thanks, Taras. I think I am barely seeing that star trailing Sirius in your sketch, looks about right distance and PA wise. Also looks bright in comparison.

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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Sirius [Re: Asbytec]
      #6194798 - 11/14/13 03:21 PM

Hmmm...if this is what Tara sees using a 10" and Norme barely see it through his 150mm, I'm wondering what my real chances are through a dinky 90mm?

-s-


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: stray1]
      #6195408 - 11/14/13 08:20 PM

Mark, please us the term "barely" very loosely, I haven't really seen it yet. Refractors are just the right design to achieve it lacking sufficient aperture to make it 'easy.' A few folks are reporting success in 80mm refractors.

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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6197628 - 11/16/13 04:19 AM

According to Andrei (2013), "Even in good seeing, it [the Pup] will wink in and out of existence. Or you'll see it for a few moments, then it will vanish again for a long time. Do not confuse it with a diffraction or seeing artifact from the primary; stars are round, whereas artifacts are typically more linear or oddly-shaped".

With this description in mind, I am 99% sure that I saw the Pup the other morning through my 90mm. It popped into view just after Sirius drifted out of FOV and was visible for maybe 1/2 a second, following the Dog.

Ref

Andrei, F. (2013, February 7). How to see Sirius B. Florin Andrei's blog. Retrieved from http://florin.myip.org/blog/how-see-sirius-b


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: stray1]
      #6197650 - 11/16/13 05:40 AM

Thanks, Mark, missed that read.

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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6199371 - 11/17/13 04:03 AM Attachment (5 downloads)

Questionable Pup sighting. The night was sultry...

Well, it was quite good actually. Very steady skies for long periods of time, about 8/10 everywhere across most of the sky overhead. And it was dry. Even with a full moon, the sky looked unusually black...blacker than normal. Turned to scope to Sirius hoping to spot the Pup. If any night was gonna do it, this one would.

The first thing that struck me was the central few rings seemed to have a darker background. Immediately, it was clear the glow around Sirius was very much reduced. Still, the Pup was not obvious - if it was visible at all.

There is an 8th magnitude Star trailing Sirius further out and at about the right PA. That star was easily seen. Another very faint speck might have been glimpsed north of the Dog Star. As for the Pup, I might have got a couple glimpses of it at 320x and 380x, but cannot go all in.

I saw a fleeting speck in the right spot only a couple of times, or so it seemed. I am hoping someone can verify the existence of the star to the north as a verification of fleeting specks might actually be stars, this one and the Pup, too. Then I checked Rigel and found that speck might be too far out as Sirius simply put up a larger glow and ring pattern. Surely the Pup is lost in the rings.

However, after doing the math, I figure that last ring shown is the 8th maximum that should be 7.73 Lambda/D distant. That turns out to be 7.73 * 113.4 ~877/Dmm ~6" arc. The same math suggests the edge of the glow as illustrated is closer to 7.5" arc. So the Pup would not be lost in the rings, in fact it should be just outside the last ring seen and probably the glow.

So, now there is a chance, if that speck was real, then I saw the Pup! If that speck I saw was not real - then not. So, still not all in on this one. I have some residual doubt, but enough assurance to post the attempt.

The night was sultry, anyway...beautiful actually.


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stray1
sage


Reged: 09/03/12

Loc: SW Ohio
Re: Sirius new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6199407 - 11/17/13 05:08 AM Attachment (4 downloads)

Norme,

I've included a sketch of what I think I saw the other morning. Sirius has just drifted out of FOV and a tiny point of light becomes apparent for a fleeting instant in the diffraction pattern.

From everything that I currently know of the stars located near Sirius, those that I should be able to detect precede the Dog. Hence my belief that the tiny point of light that I detected in its wake should be the Pup. I could be wrong (of course); however, based on your most recent observation I will reduce my "certainty" of seeing the Pup from 99% to 50%...either I did, or I did not see it.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Sirius new [Re: stray1]
      #6199423 - 11/17/13 06:04 AM

Well, it's a difficult thing, for sure. I don't know what to make of Sirius leaving your FOV and barely what to make of it leaving my own. You know, it was so pristine last night, I tried observing the Pup with Sirius in the FOV...thinking the lesser glare would not hinder seeing it.

I tried OU HD Plossls (with a Barlow), but really found the very edge of the FOV was - what looks like - coma...at the very edge. The TMB (also with Barlow) was crisp all the way out even at the very edge. With Sirius just beyond the field stop, clean, thin bright rings bled over into the FOV.

Sometimes seeing effects created a speck here or there, but one seemed to reoccur even shifting Sirius counter clockwise along the edge. I even thought I glimpsed it with Sirius near the center FOV. But, yea, it seems on the edge you gotta be careful with distortions near the edge of the FOV. In any case, you may well have seen it and I may or may not have.

Just gotta keep trying...folks are reporting it in small refractors. So, it seems you might have an advantage here against obstruction effects.


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