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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
How Did Your Interest In Science Develop?
      #6195885 - 11/15/13 02:26 AM

A while back there was a thread about whether a formal education is a necessary ingredient to scientific literacy. That got me thinking about a related topic -- everyone on this forum, whether trained scientist or not, is part of a self-selected group of intelligent people who have a keen interest in one or more of the sciences -- almost certainly astronomy, but often other sciences as well or even all of them.

I wondered whether this kind of interest is something inborn, something that grows spontaneously, or something that's triggered by experience. I'm hoping that most people will be willing to share their experience of science enjoyment.

As for myself, I don't remember a time, ever, that I wasn't interested in scientific topics of all kinds. When I was very young, my parents did the best thing they ever could have done (besides refraining from strangling me on numerous occasions), by buying me the Life book called "The World We Live In". I poured over that book, and intensely studied all the wonderful illustrations. Several of those images remain with me to this day, including this one by Chesely Bonestell depicting the violent infancy of the Earth, Rudolph Zallinger's Age of Reptiles, and plates from the Mount Palomar Hale Telescope, showing galaxies at the then-unimaginable distance of 5 billion light years.

My interest in all things space-related was permanently affixed by the Apollo program. I watched Neil Armstrong's first steps on the Moon with my Grandmother, born in 1892, and the look of rapturous joy on her face made just as much an indelible impression on my mind as did the television images themselves.

In junior high, my parents responded to my incessant nagging by buying me the Edmund Scientific 3" reflecting telescope. Illustrated here from the blog of CN's own Rod Mollise. Through that I had my first view of Saturn, of the Moon's craters, of Mizar, of the Orion Nebula, and I was hooked. In high school I got a part time job so that I could buy with my own money, the next higher model, the 4 1/4" Deluxe Space Conqueror. I used that during the Apollo 15 mission, and with it I could actually glimpse Hadley Rille at the same moment that the astronauts were driving their rover alongside it. I couldn't imagine a better rush.

In the late 1970's, while serving in the U.S. Navy, I bought a 10" Coulter mirror for $105.50 and built a telescope around it. It had a square plywood tube and a fork mount made of 2 x 4s. It was a bouncy mount, but I didn't care. I had a BIG telescope, and that mirror was wonderful!

During that same period I made a couple of backpacking trips to Big Bend National Park in far west Texas, my first experience with the desert and my first real exposure to geology after growing up in the Louisiana swamps. That, combined with a seemingly minor observation on a beach in Spain, cemented both my interest and my confidence in things geological. Much as I loved and still love astronomy, geology gave me things I could hold in my hand, turn over, dig into, and stomp on. By the time I left the Navy in 1980, I had the GI Bill available to me, and I knew where I wanted to take it.

I began working professionally as a geologist in 1987, and with the exception of an ill-considered year as a database developer in the mid-1990s, I haven't looked back. Science of all kinds has enriched my life in incredible ways, and not for a single minute have I ever regretted developing a passion and following it wherever it might lead. I can't imagine ever having wanted to do anything else with my life.

So, that's my story (And I'm sticking to it!) What about the rest of you? How did you get interested in science, and how has that interest expressed itself in your life? I'm really curious to know.


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UND_astrophysics
sage


Reged: 01/19/13

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6195941 - 11/15/13 04:35 AM

I grew up mainly overseas in Africa and the Middle East for my formative years,(watched COSMOS on BETAMAX cassettes mailed from the states)but my determination grew In 1987 when I had just enlisted in the Army, I had to serve 4 years to get my G.I. Bill. By then I was ready to get out to become a civilian and I enrolled at the university for my first degree in 1991. I had always loved science, but did not really have the money to start formal training until I could afford it. My next stint was working for 10 years in the former Soviet Union, (Worked with everyone from former members of the Soviet/Russian VVS to one of the designers of the BURAN heat shield system) and then back in the USA as a hardware software designer and technician. Now I am back at it again working on yet another degree. Learning never stops no matter what age. But yeah, G.I. Bill helped me too.

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Charlie B
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/22/08

Loc: Sterling, Virginia
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: UND_astrophysics]
      #6196163 - 11/15/13 09:30 AM

Quote:

But yeah, G.I. Bill helped me too.




It helped a lot of us. I joined the USAF at seventeen, wanting to be an astronaut. However, my eyesight kept me out of the Air Force Academy. I served 12 years before deciding to leave and go to school on the GI bill (Viet Nam era). I managed to complete my BSEE and half of my MSEE on the bill and finished my MS on my own.

At that time, I thought that I was finished with school, but I was always interested in astronomy and space and started taking a few graduate courses (e.g., High Energy Astrophysics) and a couple of my professors convinced me to continue for my doctorate. I completed my dissertation in radio and x-ray astronomy and pursued this course part-time for a number of years, but could not afford to actually work in the field (engineering paid much more). Now I am an avid backyard astro-photographer. I have not submitted to a professional journal in three years and likely will not in the foreseeable future.

Like Dave, I ruined my eyes reading Compton's Encyclopedia on science subjects. I'm also an avid SF reader and have been since about age 8.

Regards,

Charlie B


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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #6196188 - 11/15/13 09:45 AM

When I was 8 years old, an older friend told me that if I traveled faster than light I would go back in time. That thought fascinated me and I started to learn about physics and science from then on. My mother was also very involved when I was very young. We used to solve math problems together. I started studying electrical engineering but quickly changed major to physics and went on to graduate work in physics. I never finished. The academic world was not attractive to me at the time. I am still trying to figure out how to go back in time.

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UND_astrophysics
sage


Reged: 01/19/13

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6196221 - 11/15/13 10:05 AM

Quote:

When I was 8 years old, an older friend told me that if I traveled faster than light I would go back in time. That thought fascinated me and I started to learn about physics and science from then on. My mother was also very involved when I was very young. We used to solve math problems together. I started studying electrical engineering but quickly changed major to physics and went on to graduate work in physics. I never finished. The academic world was not attractive to me at the time. I am still trying to figure out how to go back in time.




You can always finish when the time is right for you


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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: UND_astrophysics]
      #6196264 - 11/15/13 10:24 AM

going back to graduate physics is not all that easy. the level of math is quite involved so it's not easy to relearn after 40 years. While I remember most concepts, solving an involved differential equation would be hard for me now. The field has also changed quite a bit. A lot of new developments.

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: UND_astrophysics]
      #6196279 - 11/15/13 10:37 AM

One of the interesting consequences of reading lots of science books while very young, for me at least, was seeing how different sources can contradict one another. Where I grew up the school culture was rather authoritarian in the sense of "if that's what the textbook says, it can't be wrong." Realizing that the textbook CAN be wrong, and that there are ways of figuring out where the mistakes are, turned me away from blind trust to authority at a fairly young age.

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Charlie B
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/22/08

Loc: Sterling, Virginia
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #6196285 - 11/15/13 10:39 AM

Quote:

I joined the USAF at seventeen, wanting to be an astronaut.



As a postscript, I did get close to astronauts. I was stationed at Patrick AFB FL and maintained down range communications for Cape Kennedy. Neil Armstrong once held the door for me to carry equipment into ARIA control. However, I did not recognize him and later a co-worker told me who he was. I regret to this day that I did not look at his name tag, but only at the eagles on his shoulder. The launch while I was there was Apollo 13 (go figure).

Regards,

Charlie B


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #6196327 - 11/15/13 11:00 AM

Fantastic story, Charlie! I never met an astronaut (unless you count events where they were public speakers -- I did meet Alan Shepard that way), but one of the highlights of my professional life was a visit to the Lunar Lab at the Johnson Space Center. I was trying to develop a tracking and distribution system for samples from the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste project -- we had a limited number of samples(although at that time in the 10's of thousands and growing rapidly), and a pretty large group of national laboratories and university research centers that wanted access to them. It was a similar, but certainly not as intense, problem that the Lunar Lab had already faced and resolved. So, I was able to go visit and talk to them about their issues. In the course of it, I was privileged to be on hand for the extraction of one of the Apollo 14 core samples. It was like a group of surgeons gathered for a major operation, except in this case the patient was 3.8 billion years old. But the sterile masks, the hoods, the gloves, the positive pressure airlock in the room, and the white suits were all part of the atmosphere, The technician very carefully removed tiny segments using a 1cc scoop, and placed each one in an individual bin. Each core tube and each sample bin was individually catalogued.

In some respects their system was less sophisticated than ours, being pretty much pre-desktop computer, but it was quite rigorous, and we had plenty of ideas to consider adopting. I still smile when I think of that day.


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Charlie B
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/22/08

Loc: Sterling, Virginia
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6196343 - 11/15/13 11:07 AM

Quote:

Where I grew up the school culture was rather authoritarian in the sense of "if that's what the textbook says, it can't be wrong."




Me too and my kids! I remember how shocked they were when I once corrected their textbook.

Charlie B


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Charlie B
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/22/08

Loc: Sterling, Virginia
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6196347 - 11/15/13 11:12 AM

Quote:

going back to graduate physics is not all that easy. the level of math is quite involved so it's not easy to relearn after 40 years. While I remember most concepts, solving an involved differential equation would be hard for me now. The field has also changed quite a bit. A lot of new developments.




True, but it really depends on how much you want it. I did not go back until my kids were grown and in many cases I sweated blood. Plus, I was working full time and going to school at night. It took about 10 years to finish, but I thought it was worth it. It really was a labor of love.

Charlie B


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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #6196427 - 11/15/13 11:53 AM

When I was a child we went to Florida on vacation and one the stops was the Kennedy Space Center. I was in awe of the huge rocket laying on its side and the building they built it in. I was only about 5 years old. My father died in a snowmobile accident when I was 9. I had a twin brother (who has also left us) and we used to sleep under the stars in the back yard with our older brother who was running the planetarium at UWL as a teenager. He was and still is quite brilliant, I didn't get that gene or I had to split the family smarts with my twin so I only got half. Anyway we would ask him questions all night long. He bought us a 3" refractor that we dabbled with but couldn't find much. I remember finding Saturn once and it quickly moved out of frame and was lost. Frustrated, I stopped looking thru things and just looked up when I had the chance. I watched a program hosted by Carl Sagan (not sure if that spelled right) and really loved everything I heard. I was really interested in aerospace and space exploration in my teens years and wanted to be a fighter pilot. Then I had an unfortunate period of drug and alcohol abuse thru my teens and all the great childhood plans went out the window. What a waste!! Thru even that I loved science magazines and tv programs. In the late nineties I finally got my act together and quit the idiotic things and got serious about living my life. I got a pilots license and even joined the CAP. I have not flown in years due to the expense and my family life became too busy for CAP. But my brother got me a meade ETX 90 soon after I stopped using and been back at it since. This year I was able to get a large telescope and I will probably buy a few more.

The good folks in this forum have been giving me their knowledge freely and that is why I am very happy to have discovered CN.

Way more info than anyone wanted to know I am sure.


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ColoHank
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: western Colorado
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: maugi88]
      #6196516 - 11/15/13 12:48 PM Attachment (7 downloads)

I grew up in Cincinnati, and my parents took me to a number of lectures and films sponsored by the local museum of natural history. As a youngster, I also attended mineralogy and fossil classes at the museum on Saturday mornings and, at home, I immersed myself in our set of Compton's Illustrated Encyclopedia.

I majored in geology at the University of Cincinnati, but was accepted into the Marine Corps' MARCAD program and dropped out of school in the middle of my junior year. While at Pensacola, I was privileged to hear Werner von Braun speak. After washing out of flight training due to an eye problem, I was still qualified to train as a navigator, but I wasn't interested in riding in the back seat. So... I opted to return to school and my geology studies (also served as a grunt in the Marine reserves to fulfill my six-year military obligation). Following graduation, I entered grad school. There, increasing pressures to specialize were a turn-off for me. A fellow student (who went on to a career of teaching at Tulane) suggested I might be interested in a career with the National Park Service. Just for laughs, I took the entrance examination, and quite by coincidence, ran into a Park Service rep on campus soon thereafter, one among many federal recruiters pitching their agencies at the student union. During our conversation, he told me that if I passed the examination, he'd probably be the person who would later interview me, and he was right.

Upon receiving an offer from the NPS, I left grad school and reported to Grand Canyon NP for twelve weeks of training. That was in the spring of 1967. The Park Service was a generalist's dream, and over the course of my career, I was actively involved in just about every aspect of field operations. Living and working in some of the neatest places in the country was a delight, too.

Long retired, I still volunteer at Colorado National Monument, where I spend most of my time wandering around alone in the backcountry with a GPS and camera locating archaeological sites.

Postscript: My boyhood home was about a twenty minute walk from the Cincinnati Observatory. My older sister was a classmate of Marilyn Herget, whose father Paul was director of the observatory and also ran the IAU Minor Planet Center at the time. I had my first view through the observatory's venerable old Merz und Mahler refractor (early 1840s vintage) when I was five or six years old. Some years later, while in college, I attended a seminar where Dr. Herget spoke about orbital calculations. Attached is a picture of me removing the lens cover from the Merz und Mahler a few years ago at one of the observatory's public viewing events.

Edited by ColoHank (11/15/13 04:14 PM)


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Qwickdraw
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: ColoHank]
      #6196556 - 11/15/13 01:19 PM

Apollo and space shuttle programs without a doubt.

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #6196561 - 11/15/13 01:22 PM

Hank, I'm jealous. I wanted to be a Park Ranger from the time I first visited Big Bend until the time I had my first kid. After that, I knew it couldn't work out.

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GregLee1
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/21/13

Loc: Waimanalo, HI
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6196570 - 11/15/13 01:29 PM

My parents bought me a chemistry set, a little toy microscope, and some other things, but mostly I got interested in science from how-to books, and most of those I found in our local public library, down in the basement, where few other people went. There was a book on amateur telescope making that went into great detail on grinding a mirror, a big book on the collecting of moths and butterflies that said how to make a killing jar and how to paint a sugar mixture onto trees to attract moths. A book on rock-hounding said how to use scratching and streaks to identify minerals. A book on linguistics that told how to take words apart into morphemes and determine how syllables were formed in various languages.

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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: GregLee1]
      #6196587 - 11/15/13 01:39 PM

Hank's story reminds me that I had a rock collection from State and National parks. I am sure that can get you in trouble now. When your a kid you don't understand such things. We also have lot of relatives in the U.P. so beach combing lake superior for agates was always a fun time.

Edited by maugi88 (11/15/13 01:58 PM)


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: ColoHank]
      #6196590 - 11/15/13 01:41 PM

I'm science-illiterate compared to the rest of you and my history isn't interesting.

I've been interested in science since childhood but actually received very little training in any of the sciences throughout grade school and high school in California. I'm a product of the New Math era and the experiments in teaching techniques of that time. Fifth grade, for example, was a complete free-for-all where no math was taught and all I was encouraged to do was paint murals for the walls...this was not helpful to me. In spite of these things, I continued being interested in science primarily and was the only kid in my high school Biology class to get an "A" (the teacher tried to also keep my insect collection without my permission). I had "Independent Study" classes in many other subjects where I didn't even have to go to a class, just turn in work and reports from time to time. I was very interested in astronomy but nothing was offered on the subject beyond a few chapters in general textbooks and I knew no other students interested in astronomy. My parents didn't see any value in these interests for me and would not buy me a telescope. They felt I should concentrate on secretarial training or real estate (I tried these and hated working in them both). I didn't go to college, my parents wouldn't pay for it, instead I married my high school sweetheart (still happily married 33 yrs now) and his career in Coast Guard aviation transferred us every few years across the US. Living in different areas and travel has been an education in many ways.

I finally was able to save up money for a telescope (a Super Polaris mt C-8 sct) when Comet Halley arrived and I joined an astronomy club - SVAS - while living in Sacramento, finally meeting others with this interest (Paul has never been interested in astronomy other than taking a rare casual view through the eyepiece). That was a wonderful time!

Cloudy Nights is a place, besides books & magazines, where I enjoy reading about others' participation and interests in astronomy and other science topics now. I enjoy the forums very much. I also have rock (had a rock grinder/polisher) and sea shell collections, and enjoy painting wildlife scenes.

Edited by Crow Haven (11/15/13 02:14 PM)


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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #6196625 - 11/15/13 02:10 PM

I wanted to very briefly say to you veterans.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!

God Bless

Edited by maugi88 (11/15/13 02:14 PM)


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gavinm
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/26/05

Loc: Auckland New Zealand
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #6196646 - 11/15/13 02:26 PM

I think I was born a scientist - left brain/right brain sort of stuff, but I guess I was encouraged in this direction by all the books my dad had at home. I remember all the pictures before I could read. Most on astronomy and the space program. He was the science editor for our NZ national newspaper at the time of the moonlandings and actually wrote a book on it. We even have Neil Armstrong's autograph on a letter he wrote to us in reply to a letter we wrote to him as kids.
I did everything at university including a few science degrees and an arts degree, and now I teach it (and as happy as could be training the next generation of scientists).


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: gavinm]
      #6196665 - 11/15/13 02:37 PM

I made the long journey to New Zealand by myself 10 years ago and loved everything about it (I can still hear the Bell Birds). It felt like a home away from home in the month I spent there. The green landscapes so vibrant, turquois sky, fantasic mountains and volcanos, keas, etc., is all so amazing -- a beautiful country!

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ColoHank
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: western Colorado
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: maugi88]
      #6196763 - 11/15/13 03:57 PM

Quote:

Hank's story reminds me that I had a rock collection from State and National parks. I am sure that can get you in trouble now.




The statute of limitations never runs out, and we know where to find you. Better start packing for a long stay at Ft. Leavenworth.


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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: ColoHank]
      #6196790 - 11/15/13 04:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hank's story reminds me that I had a rock collection from State and National parks. I am sure that can get you in trouble now.




The statute of limitations never runs out, and we know where to find you. Better start packing for a long stay at Ft. Leavenworth.




uh oh er ah I mean what rocks?


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Mxplx2
sage


Reged: 09/12/12

Loc: PA USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: maugi88]
      #6197092 - 11/15/13 07:58 PM

My interest in science probably got its liftoff as a kid watching Walt Disney on TV when he featured a series of space and rocket episodes with Werner VonBraun. Sadly, there was only one TV in the house at that time, and as a kid I had a tough time controlling what was on, but I managed to see those episodes. I even tried building my own rocket by stuffing match heads in a pipe and was lucky I didn’t blow myself up. I was also pretty good at math in school and electronics in the Air Force, so I think it’s only natural to enjoy something if you’re having success at it.

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PeterR280
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/27/13

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Mxplx2]
      #6197103 - 11/15/13 08:02 PM

Mr. Wizard definitely influenced me as well.

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maugi88
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/25/13

Loc: SE MN
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6197114 - 11/15/13 08:08 PM

I completely forgot about model rockets. Destroyed several. My favorites were big bertha and this little silver bullet? I think? That was over thirty years ago. Great fun

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gavinm
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/26/05

Loc: Auckland New Zealand
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: maugi88]
      #6197198 - 11/15/13 09:03 PM

And today, Im just helping my parents clean out their basement so they can move to an apartment...

Boxes of all those old science and space books..

Boxes of old Airfix kits (unmade)..

Boxes of wine that are about 20 years past their enjoyable stage...

Anyone want some old/classic science books?


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UND_astrophysics
sage


Reged: 01/19/13

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6197214 - 11/15/13 09:12 PM

Quote:

But the sterile masks, the hoods, the gloves, the positive pressure airlock in the room, and the white suits were all part of the atmosphere,




Ok one of these days when I get time I am going to have to get your opinion about the Surveyor 3 film canister return.


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choran
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/28/12

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: gavinm]
      #6197265 - 11/15/13 09:52 PM

Don't toss the books. There might be some you can sell right here in the classifieds. Some of the old books are valuable.

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: UND_astrophysics]
      #6197267 - 11/15/13 09:52 PM

Quote:

Ok one of these days when I get time I am going to have to get your opinion about the Surveyor 3 film canister return.




Heh. Sounds like the search for "The Golden Rivet" I had to do when I was qualifying for submarines.

And then there was the ever-popular snipe hunt...


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: maugi88]
      #6197274 - 11/15/13 09:55 PM

Quote:

I completely forgot about model rockets. Destroyed several. My favorites were big bertha and this little silver bullet? I think? That was over thirty years ago. Great fun




We had a Big Bertha too! My whole family enjoyed model rockets well into adulthood -- and so have our kids. We used to have launchfests at every family reunion, but we're unfortunately too scattered for those nowdays.


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LivingNDixieModerator
TSP Chowhound
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Reged: 04/23/03

Loc: Trussville, AL
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6197318 - 11/15/13 10:10 PM

I got started in science in general when I was very young, but what got me interested in space was a NOVA episode about the Voyager Grand Tour when I was in 4th or 5th grade. Then I was hooked. I was blown away at the idea that there were volcanoes in other parts of the solar system on Io at Jupiter and Titan at Neptune. I got to go to the Community College of Southern Nevada Planetarium and see a show and look through a C8 at Jupiter, M42 and M78 not too long after that. I remember having to wait a month because the earliest show I was sick with the flu and having to stay home from school. I begged my Mom and Dad to take me to the college and that I would go to school the next day (mind you I was probably jacked up on cough syrup and with a fever! After that I got my first magazine Astronomy. It had an article about how you could stay up all night and see Jupiter for the whole night and see a "day" on Jupiter. I think that was the Feb 1994 issue, I don't have it any more sadly.

Edited by LivingNDixie (11/15/13 10:18 PM)


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UND_astrophysics
sage


Reged: 01/19/13

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #6197550 - 11/16/13 01:21 AM


Who loved the Collier series books?
I still have some in pretty good condition!


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GregLee1
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: UND_astrophysics]
      #6197588 - 11/16/13 02:18 AM

Quote:


Who loved the Collier series books?




I loved the magazines -- probably before your time. Don't have any, though.



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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: GregLee1]
      #6197938 - 11/16/13 10:52 AM

I was curious about everything, but the first thing of all was light and electricity. My Dad caught me with a fingernail file approaching a wall socket. I wanted some of whatever was in that socket that made the lights go on! I was lucky to have parents who supplied me with telescopes, microscopes, chemistry sets, allowed me to fix things around the house, etc. I have never lost my fascination with light and electricity.

-drl


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PeterR280
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: deSitter]
      #6197975 - 11/16/13 11:26 AM

My parents stopped buying me expensive toys because I would take them apart to figure out how they work. Of course I could never put them back together again.

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deSitter
Still in Old School


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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6197989 - 11/16/13 11:34 AM

Quote:

My parents stopped buying me expensive toys because I would take them apart to figure out how they work. Of course I could never put them back together again.




ROFL I don't think there was anything in the house that didn't get disassembled, including my Dad's prized Royal typewriter! THAT was hard to reassemble!

-drl


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choran
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: deSitter]
      #6198211 - 11/16/13 01:44 PM

deSitter, my parents weren't quick enough. When my older sister was 2, she put a bobby pin in a wall socket. Left an imprint on her finger. Maybe this is why she went into law and not science.

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Matthew Ota
Hmmm


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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: choran]
      #6198300 - 11/16/13 02:51 PM

When I was young my parents subscribed us to the Science Service book series. At the time (early 1960s) science got a lot of major attention in the schools due to the Sputnik scare and the subsequent manned missions. Later, as a teenager, I got hooked on Issac Asimov's science books as they were easy to digest. they gave me a good grounding in science and the scientific method. My interest in astronomy began in 1969, and though an amateur I view astronomy from the science perspective, not the skygazer perspective.
My interest in astronomy outreach and science education came from my participation in the Telescopes In Education Foundation, an affiliation that I maintain to this day.


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Charlie B
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: deSitter]
      #6198888 - 11/16/13 08:41 PM

Quote:

I was curious about everything, but the first thing of all was light and electricity.




Me too! However, they did not catch me before I stuck scissors into the socket. Melted the ends and ruined the scissors and scared me a lot, but not enough to stop fixing (or tearing apart things).

Regards,

Charlie B


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derangedhermit
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #6200724 - 11/17/13 09:18 PM

In part, from reading Isaac Asimov's science writings in my youth.

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Mister T
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #6200752 - 11/17/13 09:42 PM

World Book Encyclopedia

Watching the Apollo missions at home and sitting in the hall in elementary school in front of the only TV

reading reading reading...


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choran
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Mister T]
      #6200861 - 11/17/13 11:11 PM

Ditto the World Book Encyclopedia. Dear old mom bought a set from the door to door salesman, paid them off over a period of years, but we had 'em. I used to just pick up a volume and read. Wish I still had a set.

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llanitedave
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: choran]
      #6200914 - 11/17/13 11:57 PM

Quote:

Wish I still had a set.




In a certain sense, you still do.


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StarWars
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #6205059 - 11/20/13 02:32 AM





Watching 1960's TV shows like Fireball XL5, Thunderbirds, Outer Limits, Ed Wood films...


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macpurity
super member


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Loc: Quad Cities, Iowa, USA
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: StarWars]
      #6215902 - 11/25/13 07:14 PM

I started by staring at the Rand McNally USA road atlas at about the age of six. By eight years of age I was reading the World Almanac, studying lengths of bridges and heights of tall buildings!

I think I was at my most curious in my eighth year. I spent several days with a baby scale weighing just about everything not nailed down in the house. That year, I got H. A. Rey's The Stars, for Christmas. That's about the time I started looking up. I used the family 8x40 binocs until about age 12 when I got a 4" Newtonian from Lafayette Electronics (half paid for with paper route earnings). I received gifts of slide rules in late junior high and learned how to use every scale. So engineering, astronomy, geography and math were all set in my bones by then.

It keeps going from there. Had a couple keen eyed teachers in junior high and high school who put me in advanced classes to keep me from getting bored. On to college to earn a BS in Surveying and Photogrammetry and MS in a Geodetic Science. Took all courses for PhD when folks at NASA invited me to join the team. Still with them to this day, with a telecommute agreement, all without a PhD. Never needed that piece of paper -- already have five or six dozen publications under my belt and working on more...

Science has treated me well. Love looking at the night sky for relaxation and inspiration.

John


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scottk
sage


Reged: 08/29/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: macpurity]
      #6216194 - 11/25/13 10:02 PM

I always had an interest to some extent. Even during high school when I was sort of insane, I still looked forward to science class. I watched a history channel doc on Einstein 5 or 6 years ago. I didn't understand what they were talking about the first time with "curved space" and so on, so I watched it 2 or 3 more times. Then I understood. That sparked some sort of reawakening, because since then I've been obsessed with science - especially astronomy and cosmology... oh and dinosaurs.

Edited by scottk (11/25/13 10:08 PM)


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choran
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: macpurity]
      #6217650 - 11/26/13 05:11 PM

"The Stars" is still a great book. Got mine a couple of years ago. How fortunate you are to be working for NASA! Just great!

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russell23
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: choran]
      #6217749 - 11/26/13 06:02 PM

In Kindergarten my teacher showed a movie on the Moon landings and the planets of the Solar System. I was hooked on science from that moment on.

Dave


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Glassthrower
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: russell23]
      #6218174 - 11/26/13 09:41 PM

It developed early on through a respect and fascination with nature and natural forces. This was bolstered by a couple of really good science teachers along the way, especially a Physical Sciences teacher (8th grade) and a Marine Biology teacher (11th grade). I was also lucky enough to have a few other good teachers in general and they collectively taught me that learning and reading were good things.

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vickster339
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #6226292 - 12/01/13 01:43 AM

I built a 6 inch F8 telescope at 10, read a brief history of time at age 11, and went to Mount Wilson at age 12. And yes, I knew at age 12 the significance of what had occurred at the Hooker 100inch scope both historically and scientifically. That being, Einstein saw the expansion of the universe for himself and know his cosmological constant used in quantifying the energy density of the universe was *BLEEP*.

This prompt me to come up with a philosophical argument leading to an 8th solution to the black hole information paradox. A solution which creates a final paradox with only one solution. It is a solution I have copyrighted. If you want a quantum theory of everything, first you must go through jerks like this apparently.

Do you like apples?

From Farsight:

Jimmy:

You have repeatedly made long, rambling, redundant posts to the "Word salad and gravitational astronomy" thread in the science forum that everyone else finds hopeless to understand what scientific proposition you're trying to prove or describe, let alone how any of the points or links to other sites tie together in any coherent fashion. Accordingly, I've permanently locked the thread. Do not attempt to further revive this subject or use the CN science forum as a platform for any further ramblings, unless you have a clearly articulated, logical point relevant to the sciences, and not some vague grand idea you don't have a grasp yet of yourself. PERIOD.

My response (which he does not seem to be getting):

Before outright censorship would you and others rather not indulge yourselves in an inquisition? I sent you a reply the other day, but nothing is showing up as sent (or my sent items counter is not incrementing when PMing a moderator). I posted my pervious ideas in the fashion I did to allow individuals to come to their own conclusions. Moderators seem to have no problem with others throwing egg on my face in the form of dismissive and ad hominem attacks. Science sold out philosophy long ago and maintains a collective amnesia that it is not itself a philosophy. What I have written is the penalty for this hubris. I will spell my argument out for you and the reasoning behind the calculations.

Allow us to consider a handful of cosmological paradox's and problem in terms of Big Bang cosmology before we begin. Paradox's and problems where by their very nature, if you solve one you render all others impossible to solve.

1. Big Bang cosmology is shackled to the Metallicity schedule it predicts, the observed Metallicity of the young universe is low by a factor of up to 50 percent.

2. The level of homogeneity necessary to make the big bang feasible renders it impossible to create large scale structures structures as we have observed in ancient quasar super clusters. Essentially, there is no structure nor efficient means by which to create structure fast enough.

3. Big bang cosmology begins with no primordial magnetism in any version I have encountered. How can you form stars without primordial magnetism?

4. The pesky G dwarf, M dwarf, and K dwarf problems continue to plague Astronomers.

5. 68.3% of the mass of the universe is a modern version of Aether known as Dark Energy.

6. Galaxies that deviate drastically from the M-Sigma relationship are very troublesome for the Big Bang Cosmologists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henize_2-10

7. Consider what I am arguing from the context of the Faint young Sun paradox.

8. Objects such as this are found nearly every day
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130924141701.htm

9. How can stars of varying masses form a spherical hydrostatic equilibrium of plasma from a localized thermonuclear fusion ignition without ejecting the very fuel in the process of ignition? The more massive the star, the bigger the problem becomes.

10. Low Metallicity stars in globular clusters and elliptical galaxies are also cosmologically problematic for any model. Not to mention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westerlund_1 is very problematic for current stellar evolution models.

11. A unified theory of everything that is compatible with all existing observations remains at large.

(I did not come up with the previously mentioned information on my own, I have used mostly observations from publically funded projects. Since I helped pay for the projects through my tax dollars I have rights to the observations made by them. I also have an exhaustive list of over 400 references that I will provide upon request. I am not taking credit for individuals observations and work so much as it is nearly impossible to keep track of everything.)

"The path to understanding the rational universe" is a philosophical argument regarding implied consequences of conserving physical information within the entropy of a black hole horizon. This argument assumes you are familiar with a few concepts:

1. Current black hole theory, whether you believe black holes exist or not is independent of knowledge regarding theory concerning them. Ironically, some in the anti black hole crowd are more receptive to my ideas than the current black hole consensus.

2. As a prerequisite to the black hole information paradox, knowledge of:

Quantum determinism - given a present wave function, its future changes are uniquely determined by the "Unitary Operator", which is the "Time Evolution Operator" or propagator, of a closed quantum system.

Reversibility - refers to the fact that the evolution operator has an inverse, meaning that the past wave functions are similarly unique.

Which can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox

3. Finally, The black hole information paradox and current list of possible solutions to the paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox
There are currently 7 proposed solutions to the paradox, my solution is currently an 8th unrecognized and never considered possibility.

I use mostly words to describe my model, because that is what is necessary right now. Following the tried and true methodology of observation, followed by a philosophical argument, which is followed by a model, which is followed by a theory. The theory I am proposing has extreme and understandable scale limitiations, for that reason, the model is mostly words for now. Good math takes time and words will transition into numbers capable of making precise predictions and giving more universally understandable answers.

A synopsis of "The path to understanding the rational universe"

The philosophical argument I wrote proposes an alternative solution to the black hole information paradox, whereby physical information is preserved within black hole entropy only to be deterministically reassigned later. This alternate solution to the black hole information paradox did not exist until I considered it. However, my solution to the black hole information paradox leads to a new paradox, "The black hole merger paradox" and this paradox has only one possible solution. Moreover, the solution to the black hole merger paradox is also the only proposed solution to the black hole information paradox that does not require an observer to commit certain suicide to verify.

Solving "the black hole merger paradox" calls into question everything man has ever assumed or even thought about the nature of black holes as they are currently understood. To solve the black hole merger paradox, entropy and physical information must be reassigned to mass. This calls into question, what is mass to a black hole? Black holes are temporally neutral states of mass at temproally perceived infinte gravity which simultaneously represent non temporal mass and non temporal mass is the force of magnetism in a volume of space.

Black holes at the binary relativistic orbital velocity of the speed of light will excite magnetism deterministically into temproal state governed by the inverse square law through the deterministic assignment of entropy and physical information. Black holes will deterministically strip wave functions and deterministically reassign them in a binary system. While the process I argued for is complex it can ultimately be duplicated because this is how our nook of universe began. A massive scale simulation is required to replicate the process on even the smallest theoretical scale. I am in development of the only conceiveable model for simulating the detertiministic assignment of duality. Anyone capable of understanding my simulation idea can easily conceive of the only possible way to model it. While this simulation building is in the works, my 2nd post "Dark Matter in the Singulosynthesis Universe" is a further argument and mathematical deduction that can be made without the formerly mentioned simulation being completed.

The reason I link people to my facebook page is because th idea is evolving and I have diagrams to aid in the illustration of the idea and model for it. I spend a great deal of time in this paper explaining away some very strong and commonly held assumptions. In the end, if you follow the reasoning, you be able to figure out why everything from globular clusters to elliptical galaxies take the shape that they do. Here is the latest version.

DARK MATTER IN THE SINGULOSYNTHESIS UNIVERSE

In “The path to understanding the rational universe” I describe a new possible solution to the black hole information paradox. That solution being, physical information and entropy maintained (by an unknown method) within a black hole horizon only to be reassigned later. “The path to understanding the rational universe” is a pre requisite to anything I put forward in this paper. That paper argues that the universe began through an event of black hole synthesis and not a big bang. Please take time to read it before continuing for I will move forward in this paper under the assumption it has already be read and understood.

“Rational Universe Theory” philosophically plants a flag in favor of an information conservation principle for the universe. Now the question becomes, can a philosophical argument lead to a superior mathematical model of our universe? This approach has been taken in the past by others and that is my goal. While a full blown computer simulation proof of the theory remains in the works, there are some sound ideas that can be inferred from a cosmology or universe model based upon the idea of Singulosynthesis (binary black hole synthesis). The following is a statement regarding what we perceive and what is a consequence due to limitations on our perception. One can waste an entire lifetime arguing against an irrational consensus or attempt to destroy an irrational consensus through use of superior reasoning.

The Current Scientific Consensus Composition of the Universe

4.9% - ordinary matter

26.8% - dark matter

68.3% - dark energy

(Note: Totals are from Wikipedia and cross referenced with a few other sources. I am not sure how black holes fit into these totals.)

The Singulosynthesis Universe Current Composition

15.5% - ordinary matter (mass with entropy and physical information)

84.5% - dark matter (Singulosynthesis remnant of non-temporal mass and energy which is magnetism in a volume of space)

0% - dark energy - Is a perceived effect of Singulosynthesis converting temporal mass and energy into magnetized volumes of space.

(Note: These totals may need adjusting due to how black holes are classified by the current scientific consensus; black holes being a temproally neutral state of mass may require their own category.)

What could dark matter be? What could perceived dark energy be? What is a black hole? What is mass? What is magnetism? How can an argument be formulated when there is no consensus even regarding the terms being used? How can we find some answers? First some distinctions need to be made. There is a temporal state of the universe governed by the inverse square law that most are familiar with and there is a non-temporal state of our universe which is not governed by the inverse square law that even I am just beginning to figure out.

The following is based on a cosmologiocal theory that exists completely outside the context of the big bang and is based on the best current observations. While Singulosynthesis (binary black hole synthesis) should ultimately be simulated there are some ideas that can be inferred just considering it. A black hole in the Singulosynthesis (binary black hole synthesis) model of the universe is a temporally neutral state of mass with a temporal horizon which is governed by some rules. From the temporal side of a black hole horizon (our side which is governed by the inverse square law) there is a physical information and entropy boundary at the gravitational radius (Schwarzschild radius). Once a black hole’s entropy and physical information boundary fills up there is an overflow mechanism (likely based on the Bekenstein bound) at the Planck length scale (this ideally should be simulated to pin down the three way process). The non-temporal side of a black hole horizon (inside the gravitational radius) ignores physical information and entropy that exists on the temporal side on the gravitational radius. In that sense, a black hole horizon is a temporal filter for mass. This then brings into question, what is temporal mass and energy? “Mass” in the Singulosynthesis universe is “temporally assigned magnetism”. A black hole temporal radius will accept mass (temporal magnetism) regardless of what is going on outside the gravitational radius, so long as a gravitational horizon exists from the temporal side.

From the temporal side (outside the gravitational radius of the perceived temporal horizon) there is an entropy and physical information horizon which determines how duality is stripped from mass, how physical information and entropy are stored at the Planck scale, how physical information and entropy are reassigned during an overflow state, and how duality is reassigned back into duality by the Singulosynthesis process mechanism [The Singulosynthesis process will reassign existing horizon physical information and entropy by establishing or re-establishing duality to non-temporal mass and energy during the Singulosynthesis process (ideally must to be simulated]. Relativistic jets are an over flow mechanism which offload the difference between what a black hole horizon can and cannot handle in terms of physical information and entropy volume.

Once Singulosynthesis is finished and the reassigning of physical information and entropy at the temporal side gravitational radius is done, a temporal horizon will remain over the remaining non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space). A temporally neutral black hole gravitational radius will always accept temporal mass and energy (temporally assigned magnetism) or reassign non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space) through Singulosynthesis, a non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space) with no entropy or physical information horizon remaining will no longer accept temporal mass and energy (temporally assigned magnetism), for it is no longer a black hole which is a temporally neutral state of mass (magnetism in a volume of space). If magnetism in a volume of space is a property of non-temporal mass and energy, then a black hole temporal gravitational radius must govern how the Pauli Exclusion Principle interacts with temporal matter (temporally assigned magnetism). If temporal mass and energy is temporally assigned magnetism and non-temporal mass and energy is magnetism in a volume of space one can see how considering such a scenario could get confusing. This confusion has led to a number of semantic difficulties when attempting to communicate with “professionals” various concepts regarding my ideas. So why do I not yet have a final proof? Please consider the following model while I explain why I haven’t fully figured this out on my own yet on my own.

I suspect general relativity governs everything in the universe, even the assignment of duality which is temporal mass and energy (temporally assigned magnetism) and the stripping of duality into non temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space). While a deterministic process, all conditions for this occurring are extreme. Black holes will synthesize their temporal physical information and entropy horizons based on their mass at the binary relativistic orbital velocity of the speed of light. If relativistic jets are temporal gravitational radius overflow mechanisms which have reached a Bekenstein bound type limit, I have an idea of what may be occupying a temporal black hole gravitational horizon. As I figure out what is actually fundamental and critical to the simulation, I am figuring out some other things in the process. Hence, enough for this second paper.

Even without a comprehensive simulation of the former, allow me to put forward a universe model governed by such a mechanism as Singulosynthesis. In the Singulosynthesis (binary black hole synthesis) universe model Dark Energy is a perceived effect, I will do my best to interpret my ideas clearly to avoid any potential semantic confusion. Going forward I will refer to terms such as “temporal mass and energy and energy” which is also “temporally assigned magnetism” and “non-temporal mass and energy” which is “magnetism in a volume of space” to avoid confusion (Note: previously I used named place holder theoretical objects for the sake of my modeling which has only led to further confusion. I will attempt to use those place holders as seldom as possible). Going forward I am going to just state some things and explain them along the way to the best of my ability.

To figure out where we are going, we must first consider where we have been. Singulosynthesis fuels the universe by converting temporal mass and energy into non-temporal mass and energy. Applying the percentage of perceived dark energy 68.3% to the true existing dark matter which is 84.5%, you get a total of 57.7135% of the total currently perceived 84.5% dark matter has actually been produced through Singulosynthesis since the initial event of Singulosynthesis at the beginning of the universe. Increased non-temporal mass and energy (magnetized volumes of space) have been produced through Singulosynthesis and galaxies are progressive buildups of these magnetized space volumes. If the universe is comprised of 57.7135% more dark matter and no dark energy, where is this extra dark matter or extra magnetized space volume hiding? It is hiding inside of every star and galaxies are speeding up because they are converting temporal mass and energy and energy (temporally assigned magnetism) into non temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space).

The Singulosynthesis universe began with 26.7865% dark matter, 73.2135% matter, and 0% dark energy. This accounts for the 46.427% metallicity discrepancy we observe based on predictions made by other more popular cosmological models. Singulosynthesis (black hole synthesis) performs two functions in the universe. One, it recycles physical information and entropy. Two, it permanently exiles temporal mass and energy and energy (temporally assigned magnetism) into non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space). Since this is how I argue our universe began and the process also deterministically repeats itself, out of any black hole's 100% mass, the Singulosynthesis process should always end leaving at minimum a 26.7865% non-temporal degeneracy mass remnant of the formerly temporal neutral black hole, which is actually a magnetized volume of magnetized space. Binary black holes must maintain the relativistic binary orbital velocity of the speed of light to perform Singulosynthesis. While the process of Singulosynthesis should be ideally simulated in order to be fully understood, there are some things we can infer for the existence of this process I am arguing for. Singulosynthesis occurs at the metallicity rate we observe in the universe overtime through the reassignment of entropy and physical information and Singulosynthesis is responsible for the expansion of the universe through the conversion of temporal mass and energy and energy (temporally assigned magnetism) into non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space).

According to big bang cosmology, the first generation stars in the universe formed without any magnetism at all. How can you form a hydrostatic equilibrium of plasma (a star) without any magnetism to begin with? You can’t, and it is impossible despite all the cool graphics you see in TV programs. Population 3 stars are impossible entities under any version of big bang cosmology and yet the first stars had to come from somewhere. The Singulosynthesis universe begins comprised of a 26.7865 percent non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space). The beginning of the Singulosynthesis universe occurs at the CMBR, it is the birth of our original cosmic duality and nothing exists in our perceived Singulosynthesis universe before that point. This means at minimum 26.7865% percent of all stars are formed around magnetized volume of space which is non-temporal mass and energy.

All stars must form around a magnetized volume of space which becomes compacted into a stars internal magnetic core dynamo, and that would include our own Sun. How can we attempt to calculate what the non-temporal mass and energy (magnetized volume of space) quantity compacted within our own Sun should be?

Apply perceived percentage of dark energy to the true existing quantity of dark matter (which is actually a magnetized volume of space): 84.5 x .683 = 57.7135 % is to total magnetized volume of space produced through Singulosynthesis.

Subtract Singulosynthesis produced magnetized volume of space from currently perceived magnetized volume of space (currently called dark matter): 84.5 - 57.7135 = 26.7865% magnetized volume of space at the beginning of Singulosynthesis Universe.

The Singulosynthesis Universe Composition Beginnings

26.7865% magnetized volume of space (Singulosynthesis will always end with a magnetized volume of space and this is the best number I have right now, thanks to the Planck Satellite data)

73.2135% matter

0% dark energy

Our Suns magnetized core is made up of a compacted non-temporal mass and energy (magnetized volume of space) created during its formation. It is a non-fusible magnetic mass which not only assisted in formation, it adds to maintaining the hydrostatic equilibrium of the star.
1 solar mass x .267865 = .267865 solar mass non fusible magnetized volume of space: 53266 X10^30 kg

Our Suns has .732135 solar mass fusible mass: 1.45589 X 10^30 kg

A temporal Gravitational radius is a neutral non-temporal mass and energy (magnetized volume of space): radius as well:

2GM/c^2 = Rs (Schwarzschild Radius)

(2 (6.67384e-11) (.53266 X10^30 kg)) / 299,792,458^2 = 791.069180m

7.10977523e19 / 299,792,458^2 = 791.069180m

Calculating minimum final degeneracy for temporal neutral mass density at perceived infinite gravity

Volume of a Sphere= 4/3 Pi R^3

Volume of a Sphere = 4/3 Pi 495043536.1919463m

Volume of a Sphere = Pi 6.60058048e^8 m^3

Volume of a Sphere = 2.07363351e^9 m^3

Density = M/V

D = .53266e^30kg/2.07363351e^9 m^3

D = 2.56872778e^20 kg m^3

You need to start from somewhere. That is my mass density calculation for a magnetized volume of space to become temporally neutral mass. It is also the mass density calculation for what is now called the black hole "Singularity" which is actually a temporally neutral state of mass. Regarding space, non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space) abides by some different rules. A magnetized volume of space is a mass existing outside of our temporal horizon.

Once Singulosynthesis is finished and only a temporal horizon remains over the once temporally neutral mass, if a temporally neutral black hole horizon is governed by 2GM/C^2 law, the horizon of non-temporal mass and energy should be larger because it is at infinite gravity, infinite gravity does not abide by the inverse square law and therefore displaces more space 2GM/C. This is how temporally neutral mass is transferred into non temporal mass and energy in the form of magnetism within a volume of space time when Singulosynthesis ends.
Calculating a Temporal Horizon area of a non-temporal final degeneracy mass at infinite temporal gravity (magnetized volume of space)
(nt) = non temporal

The inverse square law does not apply since it is Non Temporal horizon

2GM/c = R(nt)

2GM/c = (2 (6.67384e-11) (.53266 X10^30 kg)) / 299,792,458 =

7.10977523e19/299,792,458 = 2.37156574e11 m

R (nt) = 2.37156574e11 m

R (nt) = 2.37156574e8 km

R (nt) = 237,156,574 km

This is the maximum calculated magnetized volume of space can be occupied at .53266 X10^30 kg (max volume of non-temporal mass and energy). When a star forms, this volume of magnetized space is crushed into the core dynamo of every star. Creating a large enough star from a large enough volume of magnetized space and a neutral horizon in the form of a black hole can be re-established during core collapse. While our star lacks enough mass to re-establish a temporally neutral state of mass, it is a rational starting point for considering a number of exotic magnetized objects in the universe.

Apply the same reasoning to M87's supermassive black hole, or any object with roughly calculated central black hole mass. Do you notice a pattern emerging? Now, reverse the reasoning and predict the mass of black holes in globular clusters you are looking for. Keep in mind some clusters like Westerlund 1 may not have one for understandable reasons.

This is my first attempt at a rough dimension of how non temporal mass and energy displacement occurs in the form of magnetized volume of space and is probably the cause for error range in a number of constants. While primitive, this is a business major graduate’s first attempt at calculating space time geometry. Magnetized volumes of space are displaced by converting temporal mass and energy into non temporal mass and energy through Singulosynthesis (a deterministic process that should ideally simulated). I am starting to get some numbers for my program. Mass density starting point for Rambo = fairly reasonable to me and is the beginning point for the simulation mentioned in my other paper.

If the inverse square law does not pertain to a temporally neutral gravitational horizon, it will also not pertain to mass energy equivalency for mass in a non-temporal state. The perceived effect of Dark Energy is a byproduct of converting temporal mass and energy (temporally assigned magnetism) into non temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space). Einstein's Mass Energy Equivalency assumes a temporal state since a temporal state is governed by the inverse square law C^2.

E = MC^2

Mass(temporal) Energy(temporal) equivalency

E(t) = M(t)C^2

Mass(non-temporal) Energy(non -temporal) equivalency

E(nt) = M(nt)C

Mass(non-temporal) is magnetism in a volume of a space. Mass(non-temporal) is not governed by the inverse square law for it is outside our perceived temporal horizon. E(nt) is the perceived effect of Dark Energy and progressive concentrations of magnetism as seen in galaxies as they evolve. Our universe is not speeding up due to a Dark Energy accelerating it. The universe is speeding up because it is progressively converting temporal mass and energy into non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space). Galaxies are progressive concentrations of magnetized space volumes created by the conversion of temporal mass and energy (temporally assigned magnetism) to non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space). I suspect that all non-temporal mass and energy (magnetic volumes of space) produced after the first occurrence of Singulosynthesis (which occurred at the CMBR) have produced a different charge. As galaxies increased in non-temporal mass and energy (magnetism in a volume of space) over time they have progressively repelled the original magnetized volume of space that allowed the first stars to form. There are some other possibilities in the works as well. It is through the simulation of black hole synthesis that I hope to discover if and why this is the case.

Magnetic volumes of space are compacted during stellar proto star accretion to form the internal dynamo of all stars. However, I suspect a universe model comprising of 73.2135% matter and 26.7865% magnetized space would boil over through Singulosynthesis progressively (this is like stage 4 or 5 on my simulation list). Every star ever formed had to have formed in the presence of existing magnetism, the big bang model does not have this. Forming a star in the big bang model of the universe creates 2 out comes via any model I have seen ranging from, stars blowing themselves apart during ignition before they can reach a hydro static equilibrium or all large stars collapse into an Un-nova. At present, I see a whole bunch of stars and not any Un-nova’s have yet to been observed. The internal magnetic field of all stars cause’s drag on a star’s rotation is not generated completely by core fusion. All stars have the burden of needing enough core mass to crush through existing compacted volumes of magnetized space which exists today in the core of every star. Certain type 1a supernovas offer an opportunity to reveal a non-temporal degeneracy mass around which a star once formed.

Unlike any other form of super nova, a type 1a remnant or event with a known existing companion star will leave behind a non-compacted magnetized volume of space we can indirectly observe. It is the magnetized volume of space around which the star had formed. For the sake of modeling I will use Tycho's remnant as a guide. Since type 1a supernovas occur at the Chandrasekhar limit of 1.44 solar masses my cosmology predicts a minimum of a .3857256 solar mass magnetized volume of space within the remnant, it is what the star formed around. Following the path from the remnants blast shadow created by a companion star, past the companion star will lead you to the vicinity of the progenitor star's original magnetized volume of space. Lurking within Tycho's remnant 8 - 9.8k light years away will be a .3857256 solar mass magnetized volume of space. This object will be transparent and may gravitationally lens light in the way galactic scale dark matter does. All type 1a supernova remnants with identified companion stars should have these non-compacted magnetized volumes of space if my ideas have any basis in reality.

I suspect Einstein's choice to invoke a cosmological constant when describing the energy density of the universe was not so much a blunder as it was an act of self comfort. A universe governed by a cosmological constant is more intellectually palatable than one that is deterministically converting temporal mass into non temporal mass (the perceived force of magnetism) at roughly the rate of the hubble constant.

I also suspect that when Einstein looked through the 100 inch at Mt. Wilson he was less concerned by the fact he had been incorrect as he was disturbed by the implications of what he was observing. Quantum mechanics is incomplete and there is only one way to complete it, a simulation. There are other things I am working on but I would hate to spoil the surprise.

'When one of our inevitable super-geniuses of the future discovers some new mankind-annihilating device, and this genius is insane, perhaps undetectably insane, he will willingly perish as he murders the rest'. - Harlow Shapley

Farsight, can you please point out where I am in error?

How about them apples?

Jimmy Vick


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PeterR280
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: vickster339]
      #6226932 - 12/01/13 12:24 PM

you are showing the exponential form of large numbers incorrectly. you shouldn't show .53266X10^30. It should be 5.3266X10^29.

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llanitedave
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Re: How Did Your Interest In Science Develop? new [Re: PeterR280]
      #6227000 - 12/01/13 12:52 PM

Hey, what's a factor of ten between friends?

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