Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi all. It was nice and clear tonight and after some more spectacular planetary views, I decided it was time to try some DSO's with the light thimble.
I started in the big dipper which is placed fairly high in the sky and seemed like a good choice. My first targets were M109, M108, and M97. All of these should be relatively easy since they are very close to some of the major stars in the contellation. Well, to make long story short... I failed and I'm not sure why? 
My 25mm SV Plossl was the EP of choice, but I didn't see anything except for a few stars. M109 should be friggin easy...c'mon...it's right below one of the "bucket" stars. Natta, nuttin, no dice. M108 and M97 are also, IMO, piece of cakes to track down. There is minimal "hopping" involved, but yet...nuttin. 
OK then, let's try the Clown Face in Gemini which is also not a real "toughie". No such luck. Here's what I'm thinking:
- My EQ mount, while great for tracking things is somewhat awkward when just trying to place it somewhere. Ya know, to go straight down, you kind of go in a curved direction, then down...sort of. It's here I miss having an alt-az setup!!!
- Perhaps I am expecting too much, but you read all the time about how people's "light cups" grab most of these objects. Either they are exaggerating or live on top of Mt. Everest. I guess I'm expecting too see atleast a "smudge" or some sign of an object. I realize that detail will be prolly unlikely, but I was hoping to indentify a few of these things.
- I'll give it another go, this is NOT a "whiny" post, rather a post to remind us that DSO hunting with smaller scopes is a tough job. I shall perservere... 
Mike
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29813
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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It's true Mike, it is only 80mm...and some nights are awesome while some are real dogs. I have had great nights with the 80/9 and some really crummy ones. Don't expect more from your scope than it can give.
BTW, on one of the really bad nights, I took the 8" reflector out...still sucked! It was the atmosphere...
Tom
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
It's true Mike, it is only 80mm...and some nights are awesome while some are real dogs. I have had great nights with the 80/9 and some really crummy ones. Don't expect more from your scope than it can give.
BTW, on one of the really bad nights, I took the 8" reflector out...still sucked! It was the atmosphere...
Tom
Good call, Tom. I also didn't take into account that this was from my driveway which does have minmal light pollution and an ocassional car driveby. I'll get those objects... in due time 
Mike
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29813
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Sure is a sweet scope, though...isn't it! I love mine.
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well Mike, I echo at least the part about sometimes having difficulty hopping with the EQ. I had a lot more previous experience hopping in a linear manner using a tripod/altaz, so simply trying to locate objects with the EQ is sometimes difficult (especially at high-power). A few things:
- Were you roughly polar-aligned? I tried to treat my EQ like I treated my altaz/tripod by simply putting it in a location and start viewing, and I can find objects this way; however, it goes against my knowledge of the sky, so saving those view seconds required to rough polar-align is more detrimental than good.
- Do you use a non-magnifying finder? This helps me confirm that I'm at least approximately in the right location if I feel I should be seeing the object in question.
That's my experience anyway. Persistence and optimism is more important than anything else 
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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
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Mike, your experiences are almost identical to mine tonight! I just got back in from observing. I had an excellent night looking at Saturn & Jupiter (including the Great Red Spot), as well as an open cluster or two. But just for the heck of it, I decided to experiment & see if I could view M51 & M87 through my ED80. No luck!! I guess it was not only the aperture (or lack of it), but also the light pollution where I live. I was hoping to catch just a smudge, but there was nothing there.
I also played around with the setting circles on my SVP mount. I've never really done that before. I was pleased to find that the setting circles are pretty accurate. I guess I should add some additional information about that in my SVP review.
Even though I didn't see those 2 galaxies, I'm still happy. After all the horrible weather over here, it was great to be back under the stars again!
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RGM
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/15/03
Posts: 643
Loc: Burks Falls, Ontario, Canada
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Were you out when the moon was up? With 80mm, this could be all it took to wash the galixies out. I am sure you will find them on a moonless night with average seeing.
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Bob
Tak FS78
C8 SCT XLT ASGT
10" LightBridge
Denk Standards and Power Switch diagonal
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Don W
Postmaster
Reged: 05/19/03
Posts: 13175
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
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I live in an area of moderate light pollution and have trouble with M51 even with my NX11GPS. It's a bright object, but it's sort of spread out, blending in with the background. Under dark skies I can sometimes pick it out with an 8X50 finder. Bottom line is that I think you're going to be a tad disappointed hunting down galaxies with an 80mm scope.
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Don Wyman
Obsession 18" f/4.5 #1166
W/Argo Navis DSC and Torus Primary
William Optics Megrez 90
Coronado PST
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Don't feel bad. I'm fairly new to this and I have been shut out on what appeared to be good nights with a 10" Reflector.
Things that helped me (and still help) is a zero power finder. Helps me from getting lost between the sky and the finder.
Go someplace really dark. I thought I knew what dark was but I was wrong.
Get a red flashlight.
Try this with a few friends - set up all your gear in the light (about 30 min before sun set) with your friends. Kick back with some lawn chairs, talk about stars, the moon, and maybe have a bottle of wine. Once it is dark enough one of you can work on the polar alignment. Once the sky starts to darken up try looking observing with the naked eye. This is really just a way to pass all the dark adaption that you need. I have a hard time sitting in the dark waiting for my eyes to adjust but the "hanging out" rituakl with buddies makes this work for me.
I have also learned a lot about what clear really is..
Good luck
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Sure is a sweet scope, though...isn't it! I love mine.
Yup, she's a gem of a scope. I blame myself and light pollution for most of my failures... 
Thanks Tom!!!
Mike
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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Quote:
Were you out when the moon was up? With 80mm, this could be all it took to wash the galixies out. I am sure you will find them on a moonless night with average seeing.
Bob...i think you hit it. It's the moon guys...the moon. I was out last night with an 80mm and an 8" reflector...out in the countryside with very little light pollution. A couple weeks ago, with no moon, I saw SOOO much. Last night, with just a 1/2 moon, there were many fewer objects to be had, and the objects I did find weren't nearly as bright/contrasty as a couple weeks ago. Naturally, the 8" shows a lot more, but even the 8" had a difficult time. The difference between moon (even half full) and no-moon is HUGE.
So, if you can't find these DSOs on a very DARK clear night, and in area with low light-pollution, THEN you can complain about your little 80mm. In the mean time, don't give up on your little scope yet!!
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Hardin 12"
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Don W
Postmaster
Reged: 05/19/03
Posts: 13175
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
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Ahh.......well that wouldn't help much either. I don't know what phase the moon is in. I live in Wisconsin, which is an old Ojibwa Indian word meaning "land of the endless cloud".
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Don Wyman
Obsession 18" f/4.5 #1166
W/Argo Navis DSC and Torus Primary
William Optics Megrez 90
Coronado PST
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
In the mean time, don't give up on your little scope yet!!
Hi Jeff...NOT gonna happen! I'm having a ball with this thing and that won't change.  As I said, I shall perservere!
Oh, BTW...the moon was high in the sky and was pretty bright. I underestimated it's effects, I'm sure. 
Mike
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Don W
Postmaster
Reged: 05/19/03
Posts: 13175
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
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Sheesh, whey didn't you say that before? Go back to sleep and wait until the moon is gone in a week or two. 
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Don Wyman
Obsession 18" f/4.5 #1166
W/Argo Navis DSC and Torus Primary
William Optics Megrez 90
Coronado PST
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desertstars
Deja moo
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 29970
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Quote:
Sheesh, whey didn't you say that before? Go back to sleep and wait until the moon is gone in a week or two.
Or spend your time waiting on a bit of moon watching. What the heck, it's there!
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Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going." Professor Irwin Corey
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Don W
Postmaster
Reged: 05/19/03
Posts: 13175
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
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Ack, never ever point a good telescope at the moon. It's bad.
Just kidding sorta. Been in this hobby for over 20 years and I can proudly say that I can't name a single crater on that horrid bright ugly rock. I detest the moon and wish someone could come up with a way to paint it non-reflective black.
Sorry, I love looking at faint fuzzies and that stinking thing interferes with my pursuit for a good portion of the night.
NUKE THE MOON!!
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Don Wyman
Obsession 18" f/4.5 #1166
W/Argo Navis DSC and Torus Primary
William Optics Megrez 90
Coronado PST
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Echo
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/29/03
Posts: 3320
Loc: So Cal
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Quote:
Ack, never ever point a good telescope at the moon. It's bad.
Just kidding sorta. Been in this hobby for over 20 years and I can proudly say that I can't name a single crater on that horrid bright ugly rock. I detest the moon and wish someone could come up with a way to paint it non-reflective black.
Sorry, I love looking at faint fuzzies and that stinking thing interferes with my pursuit for a good portion of the night.
NUKE THE MOON!!
A man after my heart!  
The only reason to go back to the moon is to paint it.
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Queen of GOTO
Life is short.... get a massage!
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Gardner
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 641
Loc: New Hampshire
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Quote:
Sorry, I love looking at faint fuzzies and that stinking thing interferes with my pursuit for a good portion of the night.
I hear you , Don. I used to love the full and bright moon when I was younger, I thought it was cool to walk around at night with this big light in the sky! But now that I am a DSO addict it's just a big pain in the *&@! 
Mike, last night I was able to find M95, M96 and M105 with the 27 Pan, it was late, around 1am, so the moon was not as much a factor as it had been earlier in the evening. Don't go givin' up on the SV 80/9D just yet. Get thee to a dark sky site at the next new moon and enjoy!
We imaged with the 80/9D and a friends Nikon D100 last night too. I'll post pics if they look ok. It's hard to tell on that little screen on the back of the camera just how good stuff is coming out. The pics of Orion nebula looked cool though! We'll see when he processes them and sends them to me.
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Mini Borg 50 & Q-Guide
SV80S #87
TV 102 #1022
XT8
NHAS
http://mysite.verizon.net/gdgerry/
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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
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Quote:
I detest the moon and wish someone could come up with a way to paint it non-reflective black.
Y'all are right about the moon being up. It was still up when I tried hunting for those galaxies, but it was very low in the west. I guess that was still too much brightness, although at that point of the night the sky was just about back to its usual moonless, light-polluted level.
I really didn't expect to see those galaxies since I only have 80mm of aperture, but I thought, "what the heck?" I'm sure I'll try again on a moonless night.
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Don W
Postmaster
Reged: 05/19/03
Posts: 13175
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
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Quote:
A man after my heart!
The only reason to go back to the moon is to paint it.
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Don Wyman
Obsession 18" f/4.5 #1166
W/Argo Navis DSC and Torus Primary
William Optics Megrez 90
Coronado PST
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