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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6250532 - 12/13/13 09:37 AM

You're not a heal Norme, more like a probing finger.

Actually this long thread has brought out a lot of useful information from all involved. You got to stir the pot to get the best flavor.


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Paul R.
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/08/07

Loc: Northern Illinois
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Paul R.]
      #6250643 - 12/13/13 10:33 AM

Man, this experience, although exceptional, is just one of *a few* that has transpired over the years with my good friend Adolf. Bottom line the man has a photographic memory when it comes to such things. My memory, although very good, but not as photographic, concurs with this image. Yes, I can indeed see detail in the GRS, (when conditions merit..including a thin cloud layer to act as a filter or 50% twilight conditions) and many varying gradient of hue, color and contrast. Hell, I see color in the Andromeda galaxy with my 20" under very dark skies when the object is placed over head! My friend and I BOTH have superb color perception, and excellent all around visual acuity for such exercise. (although I am now beginning to need reading glasses..bummer )

I could post SCORES of both planetary and deep-sky sketches that have been produced over nearly two decades using 15, 20 and 8" apertures, and all of them are of the same quality and ACCURACY of the image shown here.

As was said earlier, Mr. Schaller is the Franz Liszt of astronomical artists!

I wish I could find a sketch created back in April 1999, the first close Mars opposition utilizing my then new 20" telescope. This one evening the conditions were nearly identical to what they were last week with the exception of the extreme cold. The view of Mars was downright mind blowing resembling Hubble's image on the cover of the month's Astronomy magazine. The upper atmospheric features were stunning including a deep, blue limb haze...of which allowed you to really see in 3-D like fashion that this was a terrestrial world with a sandy surface complete with a transparent, all enveloping atmosphere.

Another outstanding observation of that same evening was Venus. Adolf and I actually saw detail in the upper atmosphere of this planet right along the terminator. Very subtle mottling was apparent..I first saw this, not really believing what I was seeing until my friend saw the same features WITHOUT me first contaminating his thoughts by telling HIM what I saw. I have NEVER seen Venus like that ever since..

btw...I had a very good six inch scope for years. A good 8" DESTROYS a six inch viewing EVERYTHING. Planetary performance is far more revealing at least. The math I believe indicates something like 125% more light comparing a 6-8"...

Edited by Paul R. (12/13/13 12:23 PM)


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Paul R.]
      #6250867 - 12/13/13 12:40 PM

Paul, I'd love to see some of your work. I'm almost ashamed to post mine.

Color in Andromeda is a fine thing to see. I have not done it. Yea, if you find that Mars sketch, let's compare. I got a good one, but definitely nothing like a 20". I bet that was amazing.

Detail in the atmosphere in Venus? I usually give Venus a pass, but some people can see that detail. It's not easy as one can imagine. Too much work for little to see, IME.

Nirv, yea, I kind of enjoyed this thread. It was inspirational. Oh, and I had a chance to pull some crow from the freezer tonight. It turns out, quite ironically, LRS-1 was well placed (13 Dec/1600UT) with Jupiter near the Zenith in Ant II seeing. By George, I think I just barely glimpsed the darned thing. Scientific knowledge of knowing where to look helped a lot.

Accidentally and unknowingly picked up WSZ, too, as a indention in the NEB with something faint protruding above it. Didn't realize that was it until I confirmed LRS-1 location and noticed it just south. Anyway, since LRS-1 was as difficult as expected, I put the crow back in the freezer.

Finish the sketch (observation type, not art) in the morning. It was a descent night, so good night from Asia.


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Paul R.
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/08/07

Loc: Northern Illinois
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6250890 - 12/13/13 01:01 PM

Quote:

Paul, I'd love to see some of your work. I'm almost ashamed to post mine.

Color in Andromeda is a fine thing to see. I have not done it. Yea, if you find that Mars sketch, let's compare. I got a good one, but definitely nothing like a 20". I bet that was amazing.

Detail in the atmosphere in Venus? I usually give Venus a pass, but some people can see that detail. It's not easy as one can imagine. Too much work for little to see, IME.

**I have done some sketching in the 1990s, but it was NOTHING like this. I'm sure your skills far exceed mine! I am not the artist/illustrator in that fashion, my friend does all of that. I just merely assist in describing verbally or in text what I've observed. Yes, color, or as the Brits would say: 'colour' in M-31, can be seen with my 20", HIGHLY optimized (that is an essay in itself)instrument using top quality oculars under dark skies. This apparition when it occurs is fleeting, and I only see it for moments until my eye becomes saturated with light. The color I see is a purple/blue/magenta typically placed near the dust lanes. I almost *sense* this color more then actually see it... Again, like with Venus, I doubted my own observations until I saw the SAME exact color in the same approx. region within a club member's CCD image of M-31. That CCD image btw did win 'best in show' at a photo contest back in the glory days of Astrofest.My larger instrument is optically on par with my 8" and optimized in the same fashion. On nights of near perfect conditions the views are jaw dropping! The 8" scope is killer, but the 20" just completely dominates it. After all, the physics never lie man, big fish EAT little fish LOL!!

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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6250909 - 12/13/13 01:16 PM

Quote:



Nirv, yea, I kind of enjoyed this thread. It was inspirational. Oh, and I had a chance to pull some crow from the freezer tonight. It turns out, quite ironically, LRS-1 was well placed (13 Dec/1600UT) with Jupiter near the Zenith in Ant II seeing. By George, I think I just barely glimpsed the darned thing. Scientific knowledge of knowing where to look helped a lot.

Accidentally and unknowingly picked up WSZ, too, as a indention in the NEB with something faint protruding above it. Didn't realize that was it until I confirmed LRS-1 location and noticed it just south. Anyway, since LRS-1 was as difficult as expected, I put the crow back in the freezer.






Nice one Norme. Almost sounds like you had a mental block in place with regards to getting these low contrast features

I've seen features on the earth from a couple of hundred miles distant, but sometimes I just giggle when I think about a curved piece of glass allowing me to see these things on Jupiter several hundred million miles away. I watched a documentary on Newton last night and he was most joyous about making his own telescope, but was genuinely surprised when everyone else was so enthusiastic about it. It was just 6 inches long. These little 3 inch mini dobs on a single arm base that are for sale these days (Celestron FirstScope) remind me of his scope - and they are much like the first Newt scope.


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Paul R.
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/08/07

Loc: Northern Illinois
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Paul R.]
      #6251024 - 12/13/13 02:21 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

Here is a pic of the scope that allowed us to see Jupiter like that... I LOVE this scope...you simply cannot buy one like this...

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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Paul R.]
      #6251075 - 12/13/13 02:52 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

Nice scope. I feel the same way about my 10" with its superb optics:

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Paul R.
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/08/07

Loc: Northern Illinois
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: nirvanix]
      #6251264 - 12/13/13 04:33 PM

These smaller scopes really come in handy when you've got a larger one that just requires more time to setup and use.

When I decided on making this 8" scope, I wanted it to be the best dob I could acquire without having to spend over a grand. You just cannot buy anything that comes close without having to spend at least a grand.

I wanted large altitude bearings for maximum stability with the correct contact surfaces, (teflon/formica)and real plywood construction. I also chose this design in which is actually sort of a copy of a Parks dobsonian from the early 1990s.

This design facilitates the usage of a tube cradle in which allows you to spin the tube 360 degrees in seconds, AND to slide it forward or aft to accommodate differing balance issues without having to use counter weights. It works flawlessly EXCEPT for nights when the temps drop below zero contracting the entire structure to a point in where the tube will slide downwards if raised towards zenith.

I also rebuilt with talented friends help, the OTA using old tried and true Newtonian methods, NOT that cost saving *BLEEP* that people are stuck with today when buying a common commercial dob. This includes a real Novak like mirror cell that allows for pinch free solid support, AND excellent ventilation. The spider was replaced with a traditional Novak like holder (protostar) with protostar quartz secondary mirror. All of this is placed in an over sized fiberglass tube that not only allows for excellent ventilation, but proper secondary & primary baffling as well.

With the help of a couple close friends, we built this thing in just a couple weekends including the finished woodwork.

The end result is views like the one featured in this thread and 'Obsession like' movement and stability.


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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Paul R.]
      #6251435 - 12/13/13 06:00 PM

Yes they are very convenient. Glad you enjoy yours - it looks good. At 45 lbs I can carry mine around in one piece. Although it has commercial dob bearings, proper use of materials and design of the base has given me buttery smooth movement all around, even in -30C. I even went so far as to stretch the springs, cut them, and then re-coil them to give the correct tension. I can slice an arc through the heavenly dome without even thinking there is an alt and an az. Throw in a moonlite focuser and it's a real joy to use, especially since I can stay seated regardless of the object I'm viewing.

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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: nirvanix]
      #6251742 - 12/13/13 09:18 PM

Nirv, yea maybe some mental block was present, but mostly it was determination. After this thread, I was absolutely determined to observe and render it accurately, ala Adolf.

Paul, just the shiny appearance of you tube tells me it's a fine scope. Of course one cannot tell form the shiny paint, but it makes it easier to believe you. It's at least f/8?

Nirv, same words.

My own small commercial CAT is pretty descent, not 10th wave but pretty good. The big advantage in the tropics is very often excellent seeing, nights much like Paul spoke about. Actually, being a 6" it's a bit of a challenge, much like using my own 6" homemade Newt as a teenager. Reliving childhood, in a way. It's kind of enjoyable struggling to use every trick in the book while observing.


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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6251781 - 12/13/13 09:47 PM

My primary mirror was made in Taiwan and it's fantastic

You're in a yellow zone in Asia, so you can't be in a big city?

A few years ago I backpacked through Asia with a 4 inch achro and had a blast with it. Saw the Omega Centauri for the first time. I had lots of locals who had never even seen a telescope let alone look through one view the moon - they were blown away.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: nirvanix]
      #6252002 - 12/14/13 12:20 AM

Yea, here too. Lot of folks never get to observe through a scope and are often impressed. I know what you mean, even my girlfriend seems amazed. Still.

There is an active community, mostly in Manila, and they do some nice work. Three of us live scattered about the country. One is Chris Go, he lives pretty far south. Another world class, Jack Newton quality imager further north. I'm in the middle, yea kinda small town.

If you were here in dry season, I hope the seeing was good for you. There is one local spot further north that is consistently good. Here it's more variable.

Yea, Omega! Looks like finely broken glass to me. I was in Panama, it was so high you got a kink in your neck looking at it.

Okay, boys, this is the best I got on Jupiter. It's not Adolf quality and it's not even that scientifically accurate.

Edited by Asbytec (12/14/13 12:24 AM)


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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6252167 - 12/14/13 06:36 AM

That's a beautiful sketch Norme. One of the better ones I've seen on CN.

Yes I know of Jack Newton, fellow Canuck. Didn't know he moved to the Philippines.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: nirvanix]
      #6252182 - 12/14/13 06:51 AM

Thank you, no not the original Jack Newton, just a guy who's work is as good as your fellow Canuk.

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nirvanix
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6252491 - 12/14/13 11:35 AM

Quote:

Thank you, no not the original Jack Newton, just a guy who's work is as good as your fellow Canuk.




Hmm, parallel universes?

Heard of Chris Go of course, he's done some good stuff. I would have tried some Jupiter sketches this summer had he been up. Right now I'm observing in -20 to -30C so can't really sketch. You should definitely keep sketching Norme.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. [Re: nirvanix]
      #6252527 - 12/14/13 11:56 AM

Thank you, Nirv. Jupiter is fascinating.

You mean stiff fingers and intense shivering inhibit your willingness to stand outside in the dark, with your ears and the tip of your nose burning in a crisp breeze, conspire to make it difficult to draw?

In that case, just enjoy.


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Kris.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/16/04

Loc: Belgium
Re: Recent Image of Jupiter from Dec. 6th. new [Re: Paul R.]
      #6309901 - 01/13/14 10:06 AM

Quote:

Nice attempts, good detail and information, but extremely amateur in comparison...





Seriously? Unbelievable...


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