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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new
      #6278385 - 12/29/13 01:45 AM Attachment (13 downloads)

Well, hey, this one was a lot of work in about equal periods of Ant II to III seeing. And it took much longer than usual to finish, an hour and a half of active observing and note taking.

Seeing was pretty bad earlier through broken overcast. It looked like a bust for the night until it cleared right up and settled down a little. After Jonesing so long and looking at other people's work, this night was not going to pass me by, regardless.

The rough sketch and notes actually took over two hours, but I had to start over twice. Those three ovals were on the meridian when I started sketching and I knew oval BA was going to come around. So, I tried a complicated technique of "advance" sketching. This is where you place objects seen on the meridian near the preceding limb on the sketch in advance of where they are at the moment. You 'pre-rotate' Jupiter. I tried it so I could include oval BA that was not yet seen. It's so hard to get right, so I scrapped the idea and just waited.

Again, this was a difficult sketch waiting for Ant II moments while battling Ant III. I used Ant III to kind of rough the big stuff and let Ant II seeing bring me the tiny stuff. It was more difficult than usual, so my confidence is a tad diminished. But, here it everything I think I saw.

I'll do a write up later, this sketch took a couple hours. Quickly, though, I was pleased to see some of those angular streaks in the NEB and sort of a fussy appearance on it's northern border. And amazingly, what first appeared as a diffuse blue hue along the northern SEB border turned out to have a rough looking appearance to it. That was cool. Seen it before, but tonight I am very confident there is some blue there. Lastly, that forked looking festoon was interesting, if I saw it correctly.

This was done at 240x with 8mm TMB II. Seeing was Ant II to III, about equal periods of both. Due to the overcast and late start, Jupiter was loosing the battle with Ant III near the end of the sketch as it left the Zenith.

On Dec 28th, 1730UT, System I is 69 and System II CM is 294. It's a beautiful face of Jupiter, was lucky waiting for it didn't cloud over.

Edit: There is a forked festoon that shows up on this 21 Dec image, but not on this 25 Dec image. However, the latter image by Jens Jacobsen shows a little better the diagonal streaks in the NEB. So...hmmm, just gotta go with it. Can't go back now and check it visually.

Edited by Asbytec (12/29/13 02:12 AM)


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dweller25
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Lancashire, UK
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6278561 - 12/29/13 05:59 AM

Hi Norme,

That took a lot of patience in AIII seeing.

I'm tempted to try your advance sketching idea - at the moment I draw a snapshot of what I see in a 10 min time frame which limits the amount of detail I can put on a drawing.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: dweller25]
      #6278614 - 12/29/13 07:45 AM

David, if you have luck with it, you can own it. It get's me confused.

Your style is interesting, we all develop our own. If I limit myself to what I see in 10 minutes, I just barely finish the preceding limb or maybe some of the difficult to observe NEB. For me, either takes at least 10 minutes by itself.

Some folks can sketch in 10 to 15 minutes, I just cannot see everything in that short a time frame. Normally it takes about 45 to get everything in, and a bit longer to make sure everything is included. Of course Jupiter has rotated during that time. And the more it rotates, the more difficult it becomes to place everything and catch stuff missed over the preceding limb. But, its easy to back fill where things were or are in relation to other features.

If they've rotated into better view, it's nice to use Jupiter's rotation to your advantage and observe those details more clearly off the limb. Not unlike those trio of ovals you captured on the limb. Had you waited or your sketch taken long enough, you might have resolved them and could have included them well resolved. Doing so is not exactly a true sketch in terms of what you see in that 10 minute span, but it is just as true a sketch in terms of detail Jupiter has on display at that CM. It's a neat trick to gathering more detail, but it takes time as you wait for Jupiter to rotate from limb to nearly the meridian.

Well, sorry for rambling on, it's interesting you manage to sketch in short time frames. I can't do it.

Clear skies, David.


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6278702 - 12/29/13 09:01 AM

Norme, advance sketching is great practice. I used to do this (with only partial success), until I've recently started this whole strip sketch idea. I have a strip template that I've created that you might be able to use to assist in advance sketching because it delineates time progression for easy visual reference. Let me know if you're interested.

Anyway, back to the observation above, very nice! Those angular streaks in the NEB are fascinating. Did it take Ant II seeing to catch those, because I have certainly not spotted them. That's more of a knock to my own eyes, not a challenge to you. It's a genuine curiosity. I'd love to record them, but wonder if turbulence will just flat out kill such a fine detail.

I'm glad I had an opportunity to spend as much time as I did with Jupiter the other night. Now I can clearly see why I missed the "shifting" NNTeB. It's on the other side of the globe. I was starting to wonder how I miss that yet catch other features like I did.

I'm also adding BA and the tiny blue SEB zipper to my homework list. Huge Nor'easter coming in today, although we are on the wet side. Either way there will be no observing until it clears out. Would be nice to get a stable high pressure hump after it leaves...


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Chopin]
      #6279197 - 12/29/13 01:35 PM

Jason, if you can do it, that;s great. It totally confuses me.

Yes, those diagonal rifts were very fleeting and seen fairly clearly only a couple of times. Yes, and only in the best moments. The slightest ripple on the planet and they are gone like, like...like something that's just gone. Yea, it takes a very steady piece of air, seeing is such a huge part of it.

I might try a strip sketch, will get with you on it if I do. It might be a bit out of my comfort zone, but maybe worth a try. I noticed you viewed Jupiter for over two hours to complete it.


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kenrenard
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/13/12

Loc: Dunmore, PA
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6279252 - 12/29/13 02:09 PM

Norme,
Nice work. I battled with poor conditions as well. You did much better than I with a great deal of detail. I especially like the ovals and the festoons, just wonderful


Ken


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: kenrenard]
      #6279356 - 12/29/13 03:06 PM

I designed the sketching template to help keep things in line. I'm sure it's not breakthrough in concept. A few have commented on how detailed my last sketch is. Yes the BV helped, as did improved skies and of course repeated observations. I think another important factor is my sketching template, as this is the first time I've used it. I probably should have mentioned that in my thread, but I was just so stoked to talk about Jupiter that I neglected so many other things. I think ill start a new thread with a link to the template for anyone that wants to use it.

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Tamas Bognar
sage


Reged: 02/02/09

Loc: Hungary, Zákány
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Chopin]
      #6279371 - 12/29/13 03:13 PM

Norme,

I really like the colors of the drawing. Unique atmosphere of the drawing. I really like your drawings!


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Chopin]
      #6280110 - 12/29/13 10:24 PM

Jason, you know, I find a good template priceless, too. Maybe that would be a good topic for discussion. When a detail pops, it makes the job of recording and placing it so much easier. Over time you look down at the template and it's just chuck full of popped detail that took time to accumulate.

If you rough sketch at the eyepiece without a template, I think you're doing yourself no favors. "Okay, this is what I saw...<sketch> <sketch> <sketch>...BOOM! Done." Na...accumulate detail and finish later instead of drawing it right then and there.

So, yes, I agree your template is a big help. Excellent point. If a thread pops up, may it not be limited to simply sharing templates and tanking everybody. But also discussing their virtues, as well.


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6280117 - 12/29/13 10:26 PM

Ken, thank you. I just saw your sketch and commented there. Want me to cut and paste it here?

Tamas, I am taken by your thoughts. It's a great feeling for others to appreciate your work as much as it is to share it with you. Thank you.


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azure1961p
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6280145 - 12/29/13 10:38 PM

It continues to flabbergast me that I've not seen the white ovals. I know why - I get it - my seeing stinks. But part November that night I had 7 Pickering it was barely a dither!!! Frustrating actually!!

The tri does seen to be morphing in intensity these days . There's that pic you linked to a while back showing that odd disturbance about it and here the brightness is lesser for the two preceding the brighter spot. Perhaps that's a limb shading kind of thing?

I see you hit the interior of BA again. I'm looking to see how this plays out in the possible clear nights coming up . I m cautious in my optimism as the difficulty seems akin to the other small white storms. White storms back in 1998-2000 were so easy to pick off from night to night- now its this fringey thing - and through stinky seeing!!! Are these white storms THE most difficult features for you?

Those slashes through the NEB look like they must've been fine details in their own right. Another great sketch Norme. Your skills are out there Ill say that.

That rough blue edge to the SEB s north edge is worth perusing the latest CCD images for.

Pete

Edited by azure1961p (12/29/13 10:43 PM)


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frank5817
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/13/06

Loc: Illinois
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6280172 - 12/29/13 10:50 PM

Norme,

This is a "Sensational" sketch of Jupiter.
Are you pulling in even more detail?

Frank


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: frank5817]
      #6280272 - 12/30/13 12:08 AM

Frank, it seems so at times. That night, yes, but barely. Last night, not really. I am at higher power with loss of faint contrast and amplified seeing conditions. But, you know what? It seems to be working. And I am starting to like that 8mm TMBII. Twice I saw a tad more color than my standard Ortho set up. I hope you read my reply, I'd like to get your thoughts on it.

Pete, those big ones should be much easier. Some nights, especially on the meridian, they are well resolved and held pretty well. They are huge in comparison to the smaller ones that are more difficult. I'm still pulling for you, though. If you can get better than 6 or 7, you have a real shot especially with the 8". Even the big ones though roll with seeing.

Yea, not sure what was happening with that faint extension. Something going on down there. I have not been able to see it, either. It's just too soft and maybe too small.

Speaking of BA...Dude! I tell ya, after so many time trying, I finally glimpsed the faintest hue in BA on the meridian in excellent transparency. It seems transparency is pretty important for the faintest hues. It was one tick this side of very light gray, but it was there! (Next sketch just finished will show it.)

Back to magnification. Remember I nearly blew an eyeball trying to see BA a few weeks ago? That was at 170x. It might be lower contrast, but it's a cinch at 240 to 260x. On the meridian or close, of course. So, yea, some magnification seems to be working on finer detail even with a fall off in contrast. Again, I'm sure I'm loosing something in the process, but I cannot figure out what it is. Trading some contrast for magnification and working harder waiting for the best seeing to nab finer detail more easily seems to be the ticket - at least here and for me.


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niteskystargazer
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/05/09

Loc: 41-43'-28" N 87-42'-39" W
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6281318 - 12/30/13 02:53 PM

Norme,

Fine sketch of Dec. 28th Jupiter .

CS,KLU,

,

Tom


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Dean Norris
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/05/08

Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT new [Re: niteskystargazer]
      #6281565 - 12/30/13 04:27 PM

Norme,
Another excellent sketch of Jupiter. Oval BA is evident with the dark ring around it. 4 ovals in the STB and I noticed you even have shaded them differently, very nice. The SEB and NEB are beautiful. The wispy narrow streaks through the NEB are cool. The shading and color in these belts is impressive. EQZ looks layered in clouds of different intensities. I especially like the tiny blue dots hugging the SEB.


Thanks for posting and Happy New Year. Dean


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
*****

Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter 28 Dec 1730UT [Re: Dean Norris]
      #6282372 - 12/30/13 10:45 PM

Dean, yea, the one trailing appears a bit "stronger." Now, understand, I resolved them earlier than on the limb as depicted. I observed them while waiting for BA to roll around. It's kind of cheating, but...they were not nearly that clean on the meridian as shown. They were earlier, however.

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