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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT
      #6301446 - 01/09/14 07:33 AM Attachment (40 downloads)

Every night you see something new. The other night was Io and Ganymede, tonight Io in transit.

Okay, now, I am not sure if Jupiter has moved sufficiently since the 5th of January to remove the moon's disc from it's shadow. All I can say is it doesn't look to be so. Io's shadow just seeme dto lack it's full bold black circular characteristics. At times it appeared circular but small, at other times it appeared elongated north to south. And, although I did not see Io explicitly, that I can call definitively, it did appear to barely bulge into the EZ against the white stripe of cloud running along the SEB border. This is what I think I saw, pretty sure of it. Not easy, but if so...it was beautiful.

It's pretty close to being rendered correctly. I never saw any distinct cut into the shadow, just a less distinct shadow with hints of north to south elongation at times. So, I strongly suspect Io was overlapping its own shadow.

The seeing was a pretty steady Ant II without many very calm moments. It was just steady enough that LRS-1 was not seen and some NPR detail was washed out most of the time. I could not see WSZ, but I think I can see where it is. Caught three ovals just for a fleeting moment, and again very fleetingly a couple of times on rare occasions. I am not sure they are placed correctly. They're close I believe. Hard to place them when they roll in and out so quickly.

The SPR was darker than usual.

Festooning was a bit difficult. Although above the GRS wake, the southern EZ was noticeably more shaded. And there may have been an SEB festoon sighting near the preceding limb. Something was there, so I noted it while the memory was fresh and don't remember seeing it again...or at least that way. I had to take the rare calm moments at their word and trust my glimpses.

Oh! Yes, finally some interplay of dark and light borders and streaks along the southern SEB. This is one of those things that is hard to interpret. But, this is also a case of knowing what to look for, and once you see it again it becomes clear what it is. These streaks and dark border segments are so close together as to look almost like they are exactly on the border. There was one really special case just less than half way from the trailing limb where the bright path seemed to shimmy along the edge of the SEB. Other streaks were just inside the darker border segments. Never seen it like this before.

One more thing, my favorite NTB cloud formation near the meridian appears to be closing up. For the longest time it was simply a cut in the broader darker formation. Now it's closed over the top and appears both squashed with a faint hint of being divided, as well.

I spent much time with Io and trying to get the festooning right. I also paid much attention to the cloud formation below and following LRS-2 (the dark streak in the north.)

The NEB had some finger like extensions across the top, two major ones and a series of very faint ones. It had one rift (maybe two but my notes are unclear, so I left it off. Not sure.) There was also a nice notch below one forked festoon and a brighter undefined patch near mid NEB.

Okay, that's the best I got for pretty steady small scale roughness and rare moments of clarity, not really textbook Ant II. So, I drew everything I think I saw and crossing my fingers this one is at least close.

On 8 Jan at 1700UT, System I was 349, and System II was 130. Magnification was 240x with 8mm TMB II.

Edited by Asbytec (01/09/14 07:49 AM)


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kenrenard
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/13/12

Loc: Dunmore, PA
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6301503 - 01/09/14 08:21 AM

Norme,
Nice work. I like the way you rendered Io. The transit looks very good. Your work on the NEB is superb, and really shows the festoons very well. I like the wisps to the north as well. The oval shape on the NTez is very well done. Of course the trio of ovals is also stunning.


More fine work.


Ken


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azure1961p
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: kenrenard]
      #6301620 - 01/09/14 09:33 AM

Now isnt that a fine sight! Io on the CM and all the finery of the clouds as well. You do capture these narrow rifts very well - they look Cassini-ish in thickness if not more slender.

The festoon work is really interesting here and in the last 12 months, or even several years has seen it go from chaotic frothy white with a minimalist look to last year with these extensive broad bases grounded in the NEB. Here the broad bases seem more varied and the whips extending up broadened as well - the biggest kicker that I have not seen but you caught another time recently is the festoon projections from the SEB! That'd be a new one on me to pick that off. I still hold out hope .

The first thing I look at here is Io but the detail rendered is interesting here as it involves features not seen the same as in other drawings of late.

Nice work Norme.

Pete


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mike73
super member


Reged: 05/01/12

Loc: UK Plymouth
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: azure1961p]
      #6301707 - 01/09/14 10:17 AM

Excellent as usual Norme.

Question...You quite often seem to be use magnifications over x200 at AII, as Ken and Pete mention you always seem to see a lot of the finer details.
Do you think these details are still visible at around x170 or maybe even x150 with the same AII?

Edited by mike73 (01/09/14 10:18 AM)


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
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Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: mike73]
      #6301770 - 01/09/14 10:56 AM

Norme, I love your interpretation of the SPR. I often see it like that, but struggle to render it accurately. Nicely done!

The transit is very interesting, and I'm impressed with the detail you believe you saw. The shadow often appears like a sharp disk for me, and the roundness is fairly obvious, but I'm using 10" of aperture, so that might be the difference. I can't say I've had the opportunity to see an shadow eclipsed by it's own moon (not sure what the name for this event would be). I still don't know that I'd see a definitive "bite" mark either. I'll go on record trusting your eyes, if it helps. Good catch on spotting Io, too. There's some real challenging albedo, there.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are LRS-1 and WSZ?


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Chopin]
      #6301787 - 01/09/14 11:05 AM

Guys, I put a pkg of frozen fish balls on my scope. Story later along with replies to all. Jason little red spot - 1 and white spot Z (sometimes red oval Z - ROZ.) Back later.

Back: Okay, scope warmed up in the house after cool down and my reusable medical ice pack was spent. Cooled it too early. Needed something cold to chill the scope, so a package of frozen fish balls was it. Screwing seeing tonight...

Edited by Asbytec (01/09/14 01:13 PM)


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6302065 - 01/09/14 01:11 PM Attachment (28 downloads)

Ken, after struggling with this observation, I thank you for your comments. It actually means a little more when you struggle and might have gotten it close enough for folks to appreciate.

Pete, again, this was admittedly a case of knowing where to look and how to interpret it. Cheating maybe, but you know I saw them again tonight...just for quick moments. If I look for them and see them, I will know what they are and include them. Maybe that's learning, maybe it's unfair cheating. I dunno. They are there, it's just a matter of interpreting them as tiny thin rifts very close to the edge of the belt instead of something fuzzy or writing them off as a seeing effect. Anyway, I'm glad I noticed them in an image and remembered to look for them. In the image they should be doable (considering the dynamic range involved and all that.) So, it was worth a try.

Thought I glimpsed some more SEB festoon-like things tonight. Gotta check and see if they are actually there. That's always the kicker, does an image show anything that might be interpreted as a faint wisp? Maybe set off by some white? And of course, there is a mach band illusion where white set off by something darker appears to have a dark edge to it. I think this is what gives festons that loop like appearance we see often.

Mike, that's the trillion dollar question. Rather, "yes, but why" is. SHort answer is, yes, I am seeing things this year at 240 and 260x that I have not seen in the past at 174x. Pete started a thread on that and I tried to explain it.

But, the short answer is yes so I'm sticking with the higher magnifications. It does seem I have to work a little harder, but I don't mind that if the results are better.

I am not sure higher power is more or less susceptible to seeing, either. Still mulling that over and changing between hi and low power to see that's up. I suspect the view at lower power is more pleasing, but when seeing gets a little rough detail fades at either magnification.

It's important to understand raising magnification does not affect contrast, as far as I know. It does make the image dimmer. So, if for some reason some detail becomes too dim to see, I am not sure what those features are. I am getting a bit more at higher power and Jupiter is still plenty bright. I am still at photopic vision, you can tell your night vision is gone by looking at the sky after observing Jupiter.

Now, that said, there is no more resolution at 40x per inch, it's just easier to see in some cases. Rifts are definitely seen at lower power and they are noticeably brighter. They are still there at 240x, but slightly tougher to see on one hand and much easier to notice on the other.

Let me say that again, at higher power detail is slightly harder to see because it's dimmer, but it's easier to notice because it's bigger. I think that's the key. When at 174, I am sure the detail is there, but it's harder to notice. White ovals are a perfect example. At low power, they are very tiny dots about the size of an Airy disc. At higher power, they are larger light patches, instead. Instead of seeing a dime at arm's length, you see a quarter at that distance. It's easier to notice.

Below is a sketch from last year, I like the views from this year.

Its the difference between seeing the resolution the scope puts up at 1mm exit pupil, and noticing it at smaller exit pupils.

Jason, yes, the shadow to me, as well, is a nice dark spot with some definition and apparent size. This is what got me clued in something was up, it did not look or behave normal.

I am still curious if it was actually overlapping, but I suspect it was. Maybe not, maybe it was seeing effects. But analyzing transit images from 30 Dec, there is a clear separation of about 1 disc diameter 6 days before opposition. One day after opposition, there was a thin crescent. If the math is right, 3 days after opposition there should be a tiny bit of overlap. Does anyone know?

Edited by Asbytec (01/09/14 01:17 PM)


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
*****

Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6302166 - 01/09/14 01:57 PM

Quote:

Guys, I put a pkg of frozen fish balls on my scope. Story later along with replies to all. Jason little red spot - 1 and white spot Z (sometimes red oval Z - ROZ.) Back later.

Back: Okay, scope warmed up in the house after cool down and my reusable medical ice pack was spent. Cooled it too early. Needed something cold to chill the scope, so a package of frozen fish balls was it. Screwing seeing tonight...




Cool, thanks.


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kenrenard
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/13/12

Loc: Dunmore, PA
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6302171 - 01/09/14 02:00 PM

Norme,
I can see the headline on the TV.

"Man uses Frozen Fish Balls to See Jupiter!"

Hey whatever works. I am getting a permanent mount fan for my Dob with a small battery pack.

I am happy you have been pushing the power. David Gray was speaking about the magnification in a post on the solar system observing forum. He got me into experimenting with the apodizer and what a difference.

Did you ever try the W21# orange filter? Pete recommended it to me and I can say the festoons were amazing.

I am always learning something from you guys every day.


Ken


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
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Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: kenrenard]
      #6302197 - 01/09/14 02:08 PM

Ken, the fan is very important, good choice. I run mine so that it draws the air down the tube toward the primary. Brian Greer has a great article on his Protostar site that explains the advantages versus blowing air against the back of the primary.

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Dean Norris
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Reged: 11/05/08

Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Chopin]
      #6302436 - 01/09/14 04:24 PM

Norme,

A beautiful rendition of the Io shadow transit. When reading your description of Io's shadow changing as it traversed the globe I was wondering if this might be due to different elevations of Jupiter's cloud deck? That might effect the appearance of the shadow. You caught some tiny ovals in the SSTB and to my eye they all look smaller than the disc of Io. Great sketch.

Dean


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Chopin
Canis Insanus
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Reged: 02/03/05

Loc: In the doghouse.
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Dean Norris]
      #6302541 - 01/09/14 05:06 PM

Quote:

... When reading your description of Io's shadow changing as it traversed the globe I was wondering if this might be due to different elevations of Jupiter's cloud deck? That might effect the appearance of the shadow....




Dean, brilliant. How amazing would it be if this is actually what Norme was catching.


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niteskystargazer
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Reged: 10/05/09

Loc: 41-43'-28" N 87-42'-39" W
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6302729 - 01/09/14 06:38 PM

Norme,

Nice sketch of the Transit of Jan. 8th on Jupiter

CS,KLU,

,

Tom


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Jupiter Io Transit 8 Jan 1700UT new [Re: kenrenard]
      #6302812 - 01/09/14 07:09 PM

Ken, yea, I've tried filters. Admittedly cheap ones, but never took to them. The off color just seems too odd and unnatural. Maybe it's time to give them another look though. Surely they work, but I have not had much luck with them and have been thrown off by the unnatural feel.

Dean, never though of catching the shadow contour off the cloud tops. Wow, amazing if so. I just took it as a seeing effect. Interesting, but seeing was just good. Not great and very few really crisp moments, but doable. Only saw the white ovals maybe twice and nothing in the north seemed to really sharpen nicely. So, yea, it looked to be affected by the mild blurring (and rechecking focus this time more often.) Neat thought, though. Gosh, that would be so cool to see, if it's even possible. Maybe it is, great insight Dean, never thought of that (I'm trying to rule it out, while at the same time tantalized by the possibility.) Has anyone ever reported such a sighting?

Tom, thank you, again.


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