Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
TCW
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/05/13

Loc: The North 40
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: aatt]
      #6295147 - 01/06/14 12:24 AM

If light trespass is anyone's light visible from your property how are you going to enforce that? In other words if you can see a light from within your property line it should be illegal? If so I have a 50+ mile radius under my thumb. Entire cities will have to go dark! As an aside what percentage of the population are astronomers, amateur or not?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: TCW]
      #6295620 - 01/06/14 10:22 AM

The "yardstick rule" has been used elsewhere with success, and is simple to for anyone to assess.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Epiphany: Connect indoor shades to outdoor lights new [Re: magic612]
      #6299780 - 01/08/14 10:55 AM

Wow... I just had an epiphany. Here's one that I think should work well - I'll make a graphic when I get a change to take a few photos and put a picture together, but feedback on this idea would be appreciated.

Imagine a typical Facebook-type meme. Two pictures; one of an indoor lamp with a shade on it, with most of the light going down, shielding the eye from the glare of the bulb. On the other side, a poorly shielded outdoor lamp, and these words on it:

"You shield your eyes from direct lighting glare inside your house; why not the ones outside?"

Doesn't mention astronomy. Connects indoor "good" lighting with that which is outside. No mention of cancer, just a simple, logical point that people don't usually connect.

Yes? No? Tweaks to make it better?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Epiphany: Connect indoor shades to outdoor lights new [Re: magic612]
      #6299863 - 01/08/14 11:41 AM

When I saw the title, I thought it was a new thread. Changing the title of the thread will be confusing for readers.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollut new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6299871 - 01/08/14 11:47 AM

People change post titles all the time though in other forums here though...??? And if it's so confusing, why does the forum even allow us to change post titles?



I didn't think it would be so confusing for people, but I changed it back.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollut new [Re: magic612]
      #6299882 - 01/08/14 11:57 AM

Sorry; it just caught me off guard, as I'm been following this thread with interest. I was posting as a member, not as a moderator. Feel free to change it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollut new [Re: csa/montana]
      #6299896 - 01/08/14 12:08 PM

No problem - any thoughts on the meme idea?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rgm40
sage
*****

Reged: 04/15/08

Loc: Western Kentucky
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollut new [Re: magic612]
      #6300719 - 01/08/14 07:38 PM

Take lesson from PETA. Have some scantily clad bikini girls stand on the street corner with signs

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
glennshiller
member


Reged: 07/21/13

Loc: Lakeland, Florida
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #6300727 - 01/08/14 07:41 PM

Light pollution is a growing problem and will not get better unless state, county, and city officials who regulate street lighting understand the impact that their lighting regulations have on our night skies and on the fuel consumption needed to generate the electricity for the lighting. I urge you to support the International Dark-Sky Association (IDA). The IDA strives to preserve and protect the nighttime environment and our dark skies through environmentally responsible outdoor lighting. Join now and become a member of the local IDA group near you. We have to start now. Light pollution will only get worse.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
alrosm
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: magic612]
      #6300982 - 01/08/14 10:03 PM

I understand what you are trying to do but after what I saw in neighborhoods the last 2 years, I think it's an uphill battle.

There is only one solution and it is to move to a quieter and more isolated place.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: glennshiller]
      #6301130 - 01/08/14 11:45 PM

Quote:

Light pollution is a growing problem and will not get better unless state, county, and city officials who regulate street lighting understand the impact that their lighting regulations have on our night skies and on the fuel consumption needed to generate the electricity for the lighting. I urge you to support the International Dark-Sky Association (IDA). The IDA strives to preserve and protect the nighttime environment and our dark skies through environmentally responsible outdoor lighting. Join now and become a member of the local IDA group near you. We have to start now. Light pollution will only get worse.




This is exactly what I am trying to do - get people motivated to do these things. But we can work together, here, to parse language and methods of attacking this problem as only we, amateur astronomers, know how.

BTW, I am a member of the IDA. I work regularly with Scott Kardel, the Managing Director. He often posts the videos I make in IDA newsletters or on Twitter. I spend my own time every week, which take me 8 - 10 hours for each video, that are seen by 2,000+ people each week. Presently I am close to 600,000 total video views. I think I'm making an impact. I always mention light pollution. Every single one of my videos has the IDA's information in it. I also know and work with Audrey Fischer, my local state's IDA point person. So I'm involved, and doing what I can.

But we all need to get more involved, even if it's an hour a week, or an hour a month. This forum is a wonderful place for us to share ideas and strategies. There has been some great feedback here in this thread alone. So let's use those ideas, come up with words and language that is effective and doesn't just sound like, "Oh, Dave just wants to see more stars so I have to turn off my lights!" We need to make light pollution and light trespass matter to NON-amateur astronomers. And the only way we're going to do that is by working together - both with our local IDA chapters, if one exists near us, and/or on our own if not.

We're only going to do that with language and techniques that will have an impact. That means reaching people at an emotional level. That's just basic sales, folks. If we use logic and facts, we'll get nowhere. That's why I started this thread. Let's keep working on effective, emotionally powerful language.

We need to make the most of the voices we have here, and work together, and encourage each other, and share what ideas can make an impact, by doing it in the smartest, most effective ways possible. And that will involved emotionally powerful language, that captures people's minds and makes them think. That's how will start moving public opinion in our favor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: alrosm]
      #6301135 - 01/08/14 11:46 PM

Quote:

I understand what you are trying to do but after what I saw in neighborhoods the last 2 years, I think it's an uphill battle.

There is only one solution and it is to move to a quieter and more isolated place.




And if you look at rural locations far away from cities, the light pollution is just going to follow people who run away from the problem. We need to run at it, or it's going to overtake all of us.

Yes, it's an uphill battle. I'm only in my 40's. I figure I've got a lot of decades worth of fight in me on this "uphill battle."

Who's with me?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
richard7Moderator
Not Quite
*****

Reged: 11/02/07

Loc: Sacramento
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: magic612]
      #6302572 - 01/09/14 05:19 PM

It sounds like a good idea Dave except why not try to approach it from the standpoint of a decorator. Decorators use only the type, size and style of lamps that highlight what they want you to see inside the house so why not outside.
Glare reduction is a big part of decorating so....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution [Re: richard7]
      #6303231 - 01/09/14 11:08 PM

Good point, Richard!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tbuzzi1
member
*****

Reged: 01/14/09

Loc: Rockport,Tx
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6307836 - 01/12/14 10:37 AM

My neighbor, three houses down just installed what looks like a thousand watt yard light on his third floor roof. It makes my backyard look like a prison compound. I am going to approach him with the idea that my wife and I like to sit out on our patio in the evenings and enjoy our dark yard and the stars, which we do (did). It is part of our together time as we are both very busy during the day. I think he/she can respond to the importance of shared couple time. Failing that I will have to go to the town administration as we do have light trespass ordinances but-that will most likely start a "range war" which is totally non-productive. Once a neighbor (via "big brother") thinks you are telling him how he can live he will dig in his heels and than.....
As my proactive wife likes to say, do something positive for yourself in the situation. I stumbled cross a thread in the forums about building a light weight portable light shield for around an observing station. It changed my feelings from being a victim with no recourse to someone positively working on just another problem and has enabled me to be able to approach this neighbor with the body language, etc. of just a neighbor expressing a request. Not demanding anything.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: tbuzzi1]
      #6318228 - 01/17/14 10:08 AM

This thread is a good indicator of what a simple change in language can do (Light Efficient Communities). It's the kind of thing I've been working to get at in this thread.

What other ideas can we come up with? How can those of us in the U.S. and other countries model what we do based on what was successfully accomplished in Alberta Canada?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wargrafix
sage


Reged: 04/10/13

Loc: Trinidad
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: magic612]
      #6318282 - 01/17/14 10:35 AM

what we need are summon-able meteorites to take out streetlights.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Rista
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/10/14

Loc: Colorado
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: careysub]
      #6340116 - 01/28/14 02:25 AM

As much as I hate to say it, there is always the environmental approach. If there is anything that resonates with people, it is environmentalism. I'm not an adherent to anthropogenic climate change myself, I think climate is primarily guided by the earths relationship with the sun...

That said, the most civilized nations on earth burn an EXCESSIVE amount of power lighting our cities, our suburbs, and even our small towns at night. I'd say the best way to get the masses to turn against light at night, it would be to link the amount of power consumption for...what, gotta be at least a couple hundred million street lights in the US alone, let alone Europe...to power plant emissions. Simply turning off those lights...or at the very least turning off a majority of them, would have a HUGE impact on both energy consumption as well as light pollution.

LP would still exist...I don't think you can do anything about large metropolitan regions...downtown will always be brightly lit. But the size and extent of LP bubbles should shrink, become more compact, consume less of our wonderful nightly horizons.


Along the same lines, maybe more advanced and efficient night lighting could be used as a replacement. Low-energy lights could be used to replace bright high energy lights used to light metropolitan areas. Maybe some kind of mass motion sensing could be used to control stages of illumination. During the most active levels of the night, light levels could be kept higher...as the night wanes, and fewer people are active, the average rate of motion and commotion could be used to reduce the power of metropolitan light.

Similar tactics could be used for suburban areas. Earlier in the night, when there are more people out walking the streets, a brighter level of light (but perhaps still dimmer than your average sodium lamp) could be used. As the number of pedestrians and cars drops, the light levels could be dimmed, maybe even turned off altogether (cars still have headlights). Maybe keep a low level of illumination around street intersections for safety purposes, but keep it shielded, keep it diffuse, avoid directing and reflecting skyward as much as possible.

Edited by Jon Rista (01/28/14 02:30 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
alrosm
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/27/10

Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: magic612]
      #6382226 - 02/18/14 06:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I understand what you are trying to do but after what I saw in neighborhoods the last 2 years, I think it's an uphill battle.

There is only one solution and it is to move to a quieter and more isolated place.




And if you look at rural locations far away from cities, the light pollution is just going to follow people who run away from the problem. We need to run at it, or it's going to overtake all of us.

Yes, it's an uphill battle. I'm only in my 40's. I figure I've got a lot of decades worth of fight in me on this "uphill battle."

Who's with me?




I understand but for me what is important is direct light pollution, you need to be a little bit isolated and that's enough, I m in an orange zone, the problem is not for me to live in an orange zone but the neighbor's behavior.
I had the opportunity to live in a very safe area and I was amazed of the level of fear and suspicion, when in fact nothing was happening, you just cannot fight against that.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Emotionally powerful language for light pollution new [Re: alrosm]
      #6395143 - 02/24/14 10:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I understand what you are trying to do but after what I saw in neighborhoods the last 2 years, I think it's an uphill battle.

There is only one solution and it is to move to a quieter and more isolated place.




And if you look at rural locations far away from cities, the light pollution is just going to follow people who run away from the problem. We need to run at it, or it's going to overtake all of us.

Yes, it's an uphill battle. I'm only in my 40's. I figure I've got a lot of decades worth of fight in me on this "uphill battle."

Who's with me?




I understand but for me what is important is direct light pollution, you need to be a little bit isolated and that's enough, I m in an orange zone, the problem is not for me to live in an orange zone but the neighbor's behavior.
I had the opportunity to live in a very safe area and I was amazed of the level of fear and suspicion, when in fact nothing was happening, you just cannot fight against that.




I refuse to have a defeatist attitude.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
1 registered and 2 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  richard7, nitegeezer, PatHolland 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 3854

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics