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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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WardyNew
super member


Reged: 09/17/13

Loc: UK
CGEM / CGEM DX new
      #6334130 - 01/25/14 03:44 AM

Can you image with a 1100 SCT (or if not, with a short fl APO) with a CGEM?

I was looking at this or the CGEM DX but was put off reading here about the 8/3 PE but then I have seen images using these mounts with an SCT. Is it just that they need guiding or are they just no good for imaging (or is it just a few bad ones that have this issue with PE and can't be used for imaging)?

Also how much difference does the sturdier tripod for the DX make? Does this make it any better for imaging? My understanding is the CGEM should now be able to handle the same capacity.

As I say, reviews here have put me off but the local stockist insists they are fine for both visual and AP. He could obviously be giving a biased view but he did advise that the DX was overkill and the CGEM perfectly fine for visual and imaging with 1100 Edge (with guiding...and did warn me as others here have that much harder at long fl), so doesn't seem to just be trying to push me to the most expensive Celestron mount.


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StarWolf57
member


Reged: 01/22/14

Loc: (North) Los Angeles, CA
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WardyNew]
      #6334359 - 01/25/14 09:09 AM

Funny, I just posted a related question. I would be pretty wary of doing any time exposure AP with that kind of FL on a CGEM. I'm not saying it would be impossible, but I think it could be quite a struggle. That kind of FL acts like a big magnifying glass pointing out every flaw in your system.

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dragonslayer1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: StarWolf57]
      #6334494 - 01/25/14 10:37 AM

I have the CGEM with a 9.25, before I bought I bought mine heard same stuff, posted same questions, there are some that beat the Celestron to death,,,, well I went with the CGEM and really like it. Am doing video with it right now so no long 10 min exposures (my light pollution would never allow that). I do a polar align (ASPA) and get good 2 minute unguided exposures. Kasey

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WardyNew
super member


Reged: 09/17/13

Loc: UK
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6334732 - 01/25/14 12:36 PM

Thanks both. I am interested in video as well but would want something where you could do 5-10 min exposures ideally.

What do you think of the DX, would it make any difference?

There's the CGE Pro with the 1100 Edge but if I get into that price bracket, at the moment the LX850 seems to be better value for money...both would stretch my budget.


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StarWolf57
member


Reged: 01/22/14

Loc: (North) Los Angeles, CA
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WardyNew]
      #6334827 - 01/25/14 01:13 PM

Your situation sounds very familiar...

I've been out of the game for a long time (career, marriage,kids, etc.) but with two soon-to-be astrophysicists in the family, it seemed to be a good time to get back in

I wanted to do AP on a larger (11" ) scope and I was very determined to get what I needed to do it. The more I researched it though, I began to (very reluctantly) admit that I was biting off more than I could chew. In the right hands and with the right equipment, a C11 can create amazing images. I just had to come to terms with the fact that I wasn't going to be that person for awhile and adjust my goals.

Personally, I ruled out the DX for time exposure because I felt it was too "iffy" for AP, based on reviews and user reports I have read, but others with direct experience may say otherwise. In the end, it comes down to what your expectations are and your tolerance for experimenting.


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WardyNew
super member


Reged: 09/17/13

Loc: UK
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: StarWolf57]
      #6334860 - 01/25/14 01:24 PM

That's exactly the same story for me. Used to be keenly into astronomy as a kid and teen but had to sell my telescope to help pay for university. Now have 3 kids of my own and my eldest (7yo) is into everything space, physics and science more generally and I am also still into this so felt like a good time to get back into it.

My basic plan is to buy a large sct, get back to being used to visual oberving over a year then buy a small apo for imaging but eventually also work up to imaging with long focal lengths. However, with 3 small children I doubt I'll ever be able to save this amount of money again so want to get a mount / OTA combination which can do it all (with the exception of intro to imaging apo which I can hopefully save for)further down the line. Hard to make the choice though as I can't afford the really top end AP mounts everyone seems to talk about. Top end of my budget is CGE Pro or LX850 but was re-visiting the idea of buying the CGEM / DX for imaging and getting a big dob for visual now (like the looks of the Orion xx16g).


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StarWolf57
member


Reged: 01/22/14

Loc: (North) Los Angeles, CA
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WardyNew]
      #6334930 - 01/25/14 01:48 PM

Ha ha! I hear you. With 3 little ones, you'll be in the poor house for the next... 20 years or so They are fun though, so it's completely worth it. My three are all grown up now. One is married and one is engaged (my soon-to-be astrophysicist).

Funny, I was looking at the same Orion scope! I finally decided that it was probably going to be too much hassle to set up for casual observing and I couldn't image with it, so I skipped it.

The LX-850 looks promising, but I'm still a little wary of Meade at the moment. I think the worst is behind them, but we'll have to see what the future brings. Even though I'm in the Celestron camp for now, I really *want* Meade to succeed.


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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WardyNew]
      #6334931 - 01/25/14 01:49 PM

You could certainly image with a short focal length APO on a CGEM.

As visual astronomers, we are conditioned to think that aperture is the most important thing. In imaging, I would say that focal length is the most important thing. For a given camera, focal length determines both field of view and imaging scale.

New imagers are often tempted to think that bigger scopes are better, when nothing could be further from the truth. When you are getting started out imaging, the most important thing is to keep the focal length short. Shorter focal lengths make *everything* easier. After you learn the ropes with a short focal length (I usually recommend 600mm as a good starting point), you will have a set of skills to help you get going with longer focal lengths.

Much has been said about the importance of focal ratio in imaging. I don't want to open the can of worms here (there are plenty of threads to read already), except to say that I think of focal ratio this way: Pick a focal length that, for your camera, gives you the field of view you want and a reasonable image scale. And then pick the most aperture your budget and mount will easily allow at that focal length. This strategy tends to get you to the best focal ratio that meets your goals and budget.

I hope that this is helpful,
-Wade

Edited by WadeH237 (01/25/14 01:50 PM)


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WardyNew
super member


Reged: 09/17/13

Loc: UK
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WadeH237]
      #6335017 - 01/25/14 02:39 PM

I am a bit nervous about Meade I must admit but weighing this up against the quite big price difference in the UK (for the visual aspect I can get a 14" SCT on a LX850 for the same price as 11" CGE Pro + autoguider and guidescope or OAG. I guess this is a personal weighing up of the risk and I'd be lying if I said I was a 100% on this but edging toward the LX850 at the moment.

Wade, was wondering with regards to the above...would you say the Edge HD optics are not worth the extra vs. the ordinary Celestron SCTs on anything other than a premium mount? Conscious their main advantage is for AP but they are f10 and very long focal length so I'm assuming you'd need a top end mount to image with them?

Cheers

Paul


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dragonslayer1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WardyNew]
      #6335185 - 01/25/14 04:14 PM

I will say with video its great for kids, a small monitor and they see what you see... Have been to a few star parties with E/P and little kids, you lift them up to view and their eye is cocked 90* off and they will say " I can see it" LOL.. I think most video users have not used an E/P sense started to use video (I know I haven't).. You can view so much more also and even with haze, light pollution etc its amazing what you can see vs E/P.. As I said, I have my c9.25 on mine right now with a Orion ST 80 on it and it moves so smooth. Kasey

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StarWolf57
member


Reged: 01/22/14

Loc: (North) Los Angeles, CA
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6335266 - 01/25/14 04:57 PM

Oops... Wrong thread

Edited by StarWolf57 (01/25/14 05:06 PM)


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WardyNew
super member


Reged: 09/17/13

Loc: UK
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6335271 - 01/25/14 05:01 PM

I might be being ignorant but wasn't sure what you meant by E/P...do you mean the Edge optics?

Think you're right that my kids would really like the video aspect of observing as it would be easier for them to make out what they are looking at.

Thanks

Paul


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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WardyNew]
      #6335351 - 01/25/14 05:35 PM

Quote:

Wade, was wondering with regards to the above...would you say the Edge HD optics are not worth the extra vs. the ordinary Celestron SCTs on anything other than a premium mount?




In my opinion, the EdgeHD optics are worth every penny above the standard Celestron SCTs. If I were in the market for another SCT, I would definitely get the EdgeHD.

And this is not just about imaging. I think that the EdgeHDs are much better visual scopes than standard SCTs.

For imaging, I would not recommend that anyone start out with any SCT. An 80mm ED refractor is a much better starting instrument.


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WardyNew
super member


Reged: 09/17/13

Loc: UK
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WadeH237]
      #6335381 - 01/25/14 05:54 PM

Cheers Wade, I'd been told by others they didn't think the Edge would make much difference to visual but I don't know whether they had first hand experience of this (I don't).

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dragonslayer1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX new [Re: WardyNew]
      #6335702 - 01/25/14 10:06 PM

I meant Eye Pieces, with all the abbreviations going on I should have spelled it out, Kasey ,,,,,, So before you invest in any E/P, try the Mallincam first

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WardyNew
super member


Reged: 09/17/13

Loc: UK
Re: CGEM / CGEM DX [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6336027 - 01/26/14 04:35 AM

Cheers Kasey, should have realised that's what it was.

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