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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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Olee
member


Reged: 05/01/13

How many AP Travelers
      #6338407 - 01/27/14 09:59 AM

I was just curious if any one knows (best guess) how many AP Travelers may have been made. What the final year of production was, highest serial number??

Steve


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silverking
member
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Reged: 03/11/08

Loc: Canada
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Olee]
      #6338629 - 01/27/14 12:10 PM

Still grinds me that I was on the Traveler "wait" list for over 5 years and then R.C. terminated Traveler production without offering an option to move to another list.

Although the playing field has changed since production of the Traveler ended, such that scopes of a similar optical excellence in the 100mm size range are quite easily available (unlike back in the original Traveler time period) - there's still nothing quite like the physical presence of an AP Traveler!

I still want one

As to numbers, those who've spent any time on the AP Yahoo group site know that AP has always played the size of the "wait lists" and subsequent production run numbers pretty close to the vest, but the Traveler was in production for just over a decade...which might imply that there's probably just a couple to a few hundred of them out there.
R.C. didn't make an actual run of them every year they were officially in production, so that tends to further imply that any "guesses" should be lower rather than higher.

That's my best guess.


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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

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Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: silverking]
      #6338771 - 01/27/14 01:12 PM

They show up periodically on Amart if you still want one.

Roland has posted that he isn't going to do another 4" scope since there are so many 4" out there, but if you narrow the criteria to airline portable and under f6 with excellent color correction the list is actually pretty small.


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Derek Wong
sage
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Reged: 04/27/08

Loc: Glendale, CA
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Olee]
      #6338778 - 01/27/14 01:21 PM

We have a database on the AP User Group on Yahoo. These numbers are NOT verified by the folks at AP. The Traveler was made between 1991-2003 and the best estimate of the total number is ~600, with one serial number of 610 possibly seen on Astromart.

Edit: This represents a lower bound (see Charlie's message)

Derek

Edited by Derek Wong (01/27/14 01:23 PM)


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ryderc1
sage
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Reged: 04/15/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Olee]
      #6338779 - 01/27/14 01:22 PM

Mine is number 620 and was delivered in April, 2001. I may be selling it.

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PJ Anway
Double-Star Observer
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Reged: 06/04/03

Loc: North Coast
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: silverking]
      #6338784 - 01/27/14 01:23 PM

Quote:


- there's still nothing quite like the physical presence of an AP Traveler!





The TEC 110FL Eclipse is pretty similar physically:

The AP Traveler - 105mm f/5.8 refractor; 19" long

The TEC Eclipse - 110mm f/5.6 refractor; 19" long


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silverking
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Reged: 03/11/08

Loc: Canada
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: PJ Anway]
      #6338872 - 01/27/14 02:11 PM

Is it known for sure that the AP serial numbers represent actual numbers of scopes manufactured?
...or is it a "known unknown" in the words of Donald Rumsfeld

It does seem to make a reasonable amount of sense that the serial numbers are sequential.
I wonder if the serial numbers run up without jumping any numbers, or if he began a new multiple of one hundred for each run?

Although the Traveler was in production for 12 years, he only made a run of them every couple of years - didn't he?

Which would imply a batch of approximately 100 for each run?

I do see those Travelers on Astromart, but unfortunately Astromart has developed into a "I only ship to the CONUS" kinda place. For those in Canada, Alaska, and Hawaii there's hardly any point (there actually isn't any point) even logging in any more.


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Olee
member


Reged: 05/01/13

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Derek Wong]
      #6338913 - 01/27/14 02:38 PM

I know of one Traveler with serial #686 if that tells us anything

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Derek Wong
sage
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Reged: 04/27/08

Loc: Glendale, CA
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Olee]
      #6338942 - 01/27/14 02:50 PM

Quote:

I know of one Traveler with serial #686 if that tells us anything




Yes, we can update the database. I will try to post something later here so that we can have updated numbers and share info. As far as serial numbers and actual numbers produced, no one knows. Marj said that they were trying to catalog all of the AP products, but it sounds like they are so busy that it will years off.

Derek


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Markab
super member
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Reged: 12/15/12

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Derek Wong]
      #6339153 - 01/27/14 04:42 PM

Hello,

I own a 1999 Traveler and its model is in the high 300s. Funny thing is, I've compared it many times directly with my Tak FS-102, and honestly believe for a purely visual observer, the Tak provides somewhat more contrasty images. The color correction of the AP is marginally better, especially outside of focus. Additionally, the cool-down time of the Traveler is greater than the FS-102, especially noticeable in our sub-zero Fahrenheit nights we've been having frequently in Mid-America this unusually cold winter.

I have often thought of selling my Traveler. But I cannot bring myself to do it. It is still the most portable, high performance, color corrected, well-built, and well-supported (by Roland) 4" APO. And from an artistic point of view, no other telescope looks like it! You can certainly find plenty of Chinese-clone scopes for 1/5-1/10 the cost of the Traveler with perhaps 90% of the performance. But there is no substitute for the ultimate in build quality and *magic* with this scope.

Granted, the Traveler does not bend or circumvent the laws of Physics...it does everything very well for a compact 4" telescope. It just has an emotional appeal that defies description.


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Olee]
      #6339173 - 01/27/14 04:50 PM

Quote:

I know of one Traveler with serial #686 if that tells us anything




Are you sure that you are speaking about an AP Traveler and not an AP130? I'd sure like to see photos of that serial number and the corresponding 105F6 on the edge of the lens set. Don't need names locations, etc, but some decent clear pictures would be really nice.


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Markab]
      #6339202 - 01/27/14 04:57 PM

Quote:


I have often thought of selling my Traveler. But I cannot bring myself to do it. It is still the most portable, high performance, color corrected, well-built, and well-supported (by Roland) 4" APO. And from an artistic point of view, no other telescope looks like it!




I sold my first Traveler and went through some horrid sellers remorse for six months until I managed to replace it with another one which turned out to be one of the first few made. Until I sold it, I never realized exactly how much I liked and used it. It seems to me to be the ultimate 4"/105mm for size, weight, and performance.


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Markab
super member
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Reged: 12/15/12

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6339224 - 01/27/14 05:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I have often thought of selling my Traveler. But I cannot bring myself to do it. It is still the most portable, high performance, color corrected, well-built, and well-supported (by Roland) 4" APO. And from an artistic point of view, no other telescope looks like it!




I sold my first Traveler and went through some horrid sellers remorse for six months until I managed to replace it with another one which turned out to be one of the first few made. Until I sold it, I never realized exactly how much I liked and used it. It seems to me to be the ultimate 4"/105mm for size, weight, and performance.




+1! Agree completely. There are plenty of telescopes that can upstage the Traveler for specific things at a lower cost...but, IMHO it is the best "compromise" telescope that can do everything from wide-field to AP to planetary to daytime without ever feeling like you're missing something.

I've had seller's remorse way too many times...to me, the $5k-$5.5k price tag of a mint Traveler is worth it. And, with them showing up far less on the used market than even a few years ago, if you sell it...you may never get another opportunity to own one again.


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Malabargold
member


Reged: 07/15/12

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Olee]
      #6339327 - 01/27/14 06:08 PM

I have a last run Traveler, pretty sure the serial number is into the 600's.
Got it about a month before production ended


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Jeff Gardner
member


Reged: 09/12/11

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Malabargold]
      #6339368 - 01/27/14 06:26 PM

My Traveler is from the last production run AP did. Shipped on 4/1/2004 serial number 105EDF688. It's a lifetime keeper for sure.

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RAKing
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Markab]
      #6340337 - 01/28/14 07:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


I have often thought of selling my Traveler. But I cannot bring myself to do it. It is still the most portable, high performance, color corrected, well-built, and well-supported (by Roland) 4" APO. And from an artistic point of view, no other telescope looks like it!




I sold my first Traveler and went through some horrid sellers remorse for six months until I managed to replace it with another one which turned out to be one of the first few made. Until I sold it, I never realized exactly how much I liked and used it. It seems to me to be the ultimate 4"/105mm for size, weight, and performance.




+1! Agree completely. There are plenty of telescopes that can upstage the Traveler for specific things at a lower cost...but, IMHO it is the best "compromise" telescope that can do everything from wide-field to AP to planetary to daytime without ever feeling like you're missing something.

I've had seller's remorse way too many times...to me, the $5k-$5.5k price tag of a mint Traveler is worth it. And, with them showing up far less on the used market than even a few years ago, if you sell it...you may never get another opportunity to own one again.




+2 I agree that the Traveler will not violate the laws of physics, but it shows me the best views I have ever had from a 4 inch scope -- period. Plus, the small size and easy portability make this the ultimate grab and go scope for me.

Mine is an early model. It passed through several hands before it got to me - still in near-mint condition. I'll sell everything else I own before I let this one slip away.

Cheers,

Ron


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Olee
member


Reged: 05/01/13

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Jeff Gardner]
      #6340373 - 01/28/14 08:26 AM

OK we have #688 do I hear #690???? #700???

I sure enjoy using mine...mounted on an alt-az it's quick & easy to go out for a quick look or to move around the yard.


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Jeff Gardner]
      #6341082 - 01/28/14 01:56 PM

Quote:

My Traveler is from the last production run AP did. Shipped on 4/1/2004 serial number 105EDF688. It's a lifetime keeper for sure.




Well, that has to be really close to the last one out the door for sure! Time to update the database I guess.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6341120 - 01/28/14 02:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My Traveler is from the last production run AP did. Shipped on 4/1/2004 serial number 105EDF688. It's a lifetime keeper for sure.




Well, that has to be really close to the last one out the door for sure! Time to update the database I guess.




Do you see any big gaps in the database that indicate maybe each run started at 100, 200, and so on?

Jon


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Derek Wong
sage
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Reged: 04/27/08

Loc: Glendale, CA
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6341130 - 01/28/14 02:18 PM

Quote:

Time to update the database I guess.




I think we should put the info from the database (at least for the popular models) in a post here and have people PM us if they have other serial numbers so we can give the AP group updated info and disseminate the info to CN members as well.

I would do this but I am crushed at work for weeks.

Derek


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HunterofPhotons
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/26/08

Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6341206 - 01/28/14 02:47 PM

Quote:

...Do you see any big gaps in the database that indicate maybe each run started at 100, 200, and so on?

Jon




Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the the lens sets given sequential numbers early in the manufacture? When the sets are subject to attrition from anomalies, bad coatings, etc. that number is dropped from the finished list. In practical terms, if you have a run that begins with # 001 and ends with # 100, that doesn't mean there were 100 scopes produced since a number of them will have been lost to attrition.

dan k.


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: HunterofPhotons]
      #6341407 - 01/28/14 04:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

...Do you see any big gaps in the database that indicate maybe each run started at 100, 200, and so on?

Jon




Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the the lens sets given sequential numbers early in the manufacture? When the sets are subject to attrition from anomalies, bad coatings, etc. that number is dropped from the finished list. In practical terms, if you have a run that begins with # 001 and ends with # 100, that doesn't mean there were 100 scopes produced since a number of them will have been lost to attrition.

dan k.




Dan:

I am wondering if a run begins at 200 and if it's 50 scopes, the last scope will be 250... Does the next run start at 251 or 300? That was all..

Jon


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photiost
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/14/06

Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6341630 - 01/28/14 06:45 PM

I have looked through a couple of travelers and they are excellent scopes for sure.

Anyone know why did AP stop making them?
.


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Tak North
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/28/07

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6341658 - 01/28/14 07:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My Traveler is from the last production run AP did. Shipped on 4/1/2004 serial number 105EDF688. It's a lifetime keeper for sure.




Well, that has to be really close to the last one out the door for sure! Time to update the database I guess.




Do you see any big gaps in the database that indicate maybe each run started at 100, 200, and so on?

Jon




No need to go to all this trouble. I'm sure the NSA must already have all of this data collected.


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gillmj24
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/06/05

Loc: PA
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Tak North]
      #6341850 - 01/28/14 08:42 PM

My guess to why they stopped making them is, Same amount of figuring work for less profit margin relative to the bigger scopes (you'd cry to see what prices they actually sold for new back in the day) and at some point there became a lot more 4" APOs on the market as someone said above.

I started way too late to get any scopes from them new. But I've been fortunate enough to own a traveler or two over the years. Missing them now

Edited by gillmj24 (01/28/14 08:44 PM)


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ichdien
member


Reged: 11/27/08

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: gillmj24]
      #6341851 - 01/28/14 08:44 PM

Get out the hankies: $1900 in 1995.

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silverking
member
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Reged: 03/11/08

Loc: Canada
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: photiost]
      #6341852 - 01/28/14 08:44 PM

Photoist asked "Anyone know why did AP stop making them?"


R.C. started making the 105mm Traveler at a time when apochromatic scopes of such a size were somewhat scarce, if not nonexistent.
The Traveler enjoyed increasing demand as a few competitors in its size range started to appear in the marketplace, although none of them hit all the numbers as well as the Traveler did, often falling just short in one or another of the important categories amateurs demanded, lack of color, overall length, etc.

Over time, and in increasing numbers, 4" apos originating in Asia started appearing in the marketplace at a price point far lower than the Traveler.
As well as the lower priced Asian scopes, competent high-end makers were increasingly putting out similar scopes to the Traveler.

All this caused R.C. to reevaluate the marketplace for scopes under 130mm, and he eventually choose cease production of the Traveler, as he felt the limited marketplace had become saturated with far lower priced scopes that competed directly with the Traveler.
Further, in the minds of many potential purchasers, the Asian scopes operating at 90% to the Travelers 100%, and doing so at 1/5th the price was deemed by increasing numbers of amateur astronomers as "good enough".

As well, one could posit that AP has to operate at an appropriate profit. It would appear that management felt the efforts of the company would be more productively and profitably served and advanced with scopes sized 130mm and above, presumably with more attractive margins for the work involved.
Although the demand for the Traveler was still there in spades, the margins apparently weren't.

The above is my "Coles Notes" version, and has some personal opinions inserted......but has been stated in as much by R.C. in the years since the Traveler was discontinued.


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Markab
super member
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Reged: 12/15/12

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: silverking]
      #6342080 - 01/28/14 11:08 PM

Quote:

Photoist asked "Anyone know why did AP stop making them?"


R.C. started making the 105mm Traveler at a time when apochromatic scopes of such a size were somewhat scarce, if not nonexistent.
The Traveler enjoyed increasing demand as a few competitors in its size range started to appear in the marketplace, although none of them hit all the numbers as well as the Traveler did, often falling just short in one or another of the important categories amateurs demanded, lack of color, overall length, etc.

Over time, and in increasing numbers, 4" apos originating in Asia started appearing in the marketplace at a price point far lower than the Traveler.
As well as the lower priced Asian scopes, competent high-end makers were increasingly putting out similar scopes to the Traveler.

All this caused R.C. to reevaluate the marketplace for scopes under 130mm, and he eventually choose cease production of the Traveler, as he felt the limited marketplace had become saturated with far lower priced scopes that competed directly with the Traveler.
Further, in the minds of many potential purchasers, the Asian scopes operating at 90% to the Travelers 100%, and doing so at 1/5th the price was deemed by increasing numbers of amateur astronomers as "good enough".

As well, one could posit that AP has to operate at an appropriate profit. It would appear that management felt the efforts of the company would be more productively and profitably served and advanced with scopes sized 130mm and above, presumably with more attractive margins for the work involved.
Although the demand for the Traveler was still there in spades, the margins apparently weren't.

The above is my "Coles Notes" version, and has some personal opinions inserted......but has been stated in as much by R.C. in the years since the Traveler was discontinued.





I think you nailed it!


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Traveler
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/19/07

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Markab]
      #6342271 - 01/29/14 02:17 AM

RC not only stops making Travelers but he also stops producing small high quality mounts like the 400QMD/CNC and 400GTO.

Always wonder why A-P is selling a 130mm GT Apo because as the same reason, there are many alternatives out there which are at least on the same level.

My Traveler snr starts with 105EDF and then a number low in the 400's. I bought it in 1999 after a 5 months wait.


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Traveler]
      #6344097 - 01/29/14 08:55 PM

Quote:

RC not only stops making Travelers but he also stops producing small high quality mounts like the 400QMD/CNC and 400GTO.





Umm, ever heard of the Mach1GTO? A little more weight, a lot more capability.

Quote:

Always wonder why A-P is selling a 130mm GT Apo because as the same reason, there are many alternatives out there which are at least on the same level.






Really? There is a take-down 130mm extremely high quality, both mechanically and optically, telescope "out there" other than the AP130GT. WHAT IS IT?!?


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Traveler
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/19/07

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6344453 - 01/30/14 01:47 AM

Tec 140, TSA120, Toa130,CFF127, CFF140, Officina Stellare Hiper APO 130, APM-Lzos 123, APM-Lzos 130...
Enough?

Of course i know the Mach1. A little more weight? Yes. But the point is that this Mach1(in the field) is not as small as the AP 400 mounts were. Did you compare the two in the field?


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Traveler]
      #6344811 - 01/30/14 10:00 AM

AP lens sets only get serial numbers when all of the elements successfully come out of figuring. If Roland serialized them early, there would be random gaps throughout the serial number sequence, with about 15% to 20% missing, depending on the run. The point where they get serialized is where someone gets a call. Note, with the AP130 EDFGT at 468 after the last run, it's clear there are fairly substantial numbers of AP optics out there.

-Rich


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Traveler]
      #6346048 - 01/30/14 09:13 PM

Quote:

Tec 140, TSA120, Toa130,CFF127, CFF140, Officina Stellare Hiper APO 130, APM-Lzos 123, APM-Lzos 130...
Enough?

Of course i know the Mach1. A little more weight? Yes. But the point is that this Mach1(in the field) is not as small as the AP 400 mounts were. Did you compare the two in the field?




Not one of those telescopes you mention is a take-down optical tube - NOT ONE - and you left out the Zeiss APQ. It can't be taken down either by the way.

At to the AP400 and the Mach1GTO, yes, I have. As a matter of fact I have one, of each! To top it off, I have had them both out "in the field", side by side, many times. Have you? And, to bring this back on topic, the Traveler is perfect on the AP400. I really like the shiny anodized black of each.


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oldtimer
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 11/13/08

Loc: Lake County Illinois
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6346090 - 01/30/14 09:40 PM

Were not the Travelers made in two differnt focal lenghts. Early ones being F5 and later ones being like 5.8 or so?

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Traveler
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/19/07

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6346482 - 01/31/14 02:49 AM

Pardon me, I missed your "take-down" point But besides that i stand by my point that there are several great alternatives for the AP 130GT scope like there are also great alternatives for the traveler.

Yes i did make also a field compare with the two mounts.

That is true: an A-P Traveler on the A-P 400 mount is a perfect match Even after almost 15 years i much enjoy these perfect pieces of equipment.


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RAKing
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: oldtimer]
      #6346604 - 01/31/14 07:27 AM

Quote:

Were not the Travelers made in two differnt focal lenghts. Early ones being F5 and later ones being like 5.8 or so?




You might have the Traveler confused with the 90mm Stowaway. It came in two focal lengths, f/5 and f/7.

My Traveler was one of the first 100 made and it's an f/5.81 (610mm focal length). The Astro-Physics website only mentions one focal length in their Traveler history.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my Traveler is the best 4 inch scope I have ever owned or looked through. It can easily ride on my Gibraltar as well as the Mach 1 and delivers stunning views every night.

Cheers,

Ron


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: RAKing]
      #6346880 - 01/31/14 10:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Were not the Travelers made in two differnt focal lenghts. Early ones being F5 and later ones being like 5.8 or so?




You might have the Traveler confused with the 90mm Stowaway. It came in two focal lengths, f/5 and f/7.

My Traveler was one of the first 100 made and it's an f/5.81 (610mm focal length). The Astro-Physics website only mentions one focal length in their Traveler history.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my Traveler is the best 4 inch scope I have ever owned or looked through. It can easily ride on my Gibraltar as well as the Mach 1 and delivers stunning views every night.

Cheers,

Ron




My "new to me" Traveler is also a very early model with an anodized finish and with a serial number less than 10. The one I sold is a late model pebble finish with a serial number in the high 400's. They are both in the f5.8 to f5.9 range. I like the black anodized finish better although it shows fingerprints exceptionally well. There is only one possible contender for a similar telescope in all respects and that is the TEC APO110FL.


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Paul G
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Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6346964 - 01/31/14 11:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Were not the Travelers made in two differnt focal lenghts. Early ones being F5 and later ones being like 5.8 or so?




You might have the Traveler confused with the 90mm Stowaway. It came in two focal lengths, f/5 and f/7.

My Traveler was one of the first 100 made and it's an f/5.81 (610mm focal length). The Astro-Physics website only mentions one focal length in their Traveler history.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my Traveler is the best 4 inch scope I have ever owned or looked through. It can easily ride on my Gibraltar as well as the Mach 1 and delivers stunning views every night.

Cheers,

Ron




My "new to me" Traveler is also a very early model with an anodized finish and with a serial number less than 10. The one I sold is a late model pebble finish with a serial number in the high 400's. They are both in the f5.8 to f5.9 range. I like the black anodized finish better although it shows fingerprints exceptionally well. There is only one possible contender for a similar telescope in all respects and that is the TEC APO110FL.




Company 7 had either SN 001 or 002 on display at their showroom (not sure if it was stolen in the burglary) and it was ~ f5.8. The early ones were anodized, then a shiny black paint was used, then the pebbly black paint. My first Traveler from the late 1990's had the shiny black paint and was produced just after they changed the designation from EDT to EDF. My SN started with EDF but the engraving on the focuser still said EDT and hadn't yet been changed. I now have a newer pebbly paint version. I wanted to upgrade to the dual speed greaseless focuser and rather than buying a new focuser it was cheaper (net cost nearly zero) to sell my old one and buy a newer one with the dual speed focuser already installed. I like the pebbly paint better than the shiny paint which showed fingerprints like crazy and was very slippery when wet with dew.

The TEC looks like a very nice scope. One difference is the Traveler is aspherized and the TEC is not.


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Paul G]
      #6347044 - 01/31/14 11:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:


My "new to me" Traveler is also a very early model with an anodized finish and with a serial number less than 10. The one I sold is a late model pebble finish with a serial number in the high 400's. They are both in the f5.8 to f5.9 range. I like the black anodized finish better although it shows fingerprints exceptionally well. There is only one possible contender for a similar telescope in all respects and that is the TEC APO110FL.




Company 7 had either SN 001 or 002 on display at their showroom (not sure if it was stolen in the burglary) and it was ~ f5.8. The early ones were anodized, then a shiny black paint was used, then the pebbly black paint. My first Traveler from the late 1990's had the shiny black paint and was produced just after they changed the designation from EDT to EDF. My SN started with EDF but the engraving on the focuser still said EDT and hadn't yet been changed. I now have a newer pebbly paint version. I wanted to upgrade to the dual speed greaseless focuser and rather than buying a new focuser it was cheaper (net cost nearly zero) to sell my old one and buy a newer one with the dual speed focuser already installed. I like the pebbly paint better than the shiny paint which showed fingerprints like crazy and was very slippery when wet with dew.

The TEC looks like a very nice scope. One difference is the Traveler is aspherized and the TEC is not.




I'll have to check on the old focuser body when I get an opportunity; I don't know what it says. It was changed out for the greaseless FT model by the previous owner but the original focuser came with the scope when I purchased it. Mine is not serial number 01 or 02 but it does not carry any sort of EDF or EDT designation on the edge of the lens. Now that you mention the painted version, I just had a closer look at it. I can't tell if it is a heavily polished tube which has been deeply anodized or a tube which has been painted gloss black. In fact, there is a strong possibility that the tube has been refinished and powder coated! In any case, it works very well indeed. I sent it away to Astro-Physics to have it re-collimated and some other mechanical work done. I am very glad to have it back. I never thought about the slippery with dew aspect. Dew is something I don't often encounter - and unfortunately so is really excellent seeing. I have some extra lightweight 7" SB. I'll have to look into making a carrying "handle" for it using one of them.


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vahe
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/27/05

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Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Paul G]
      #6347118 - 01/31/14 12:18 PM

Quote:


The TEC looks like a very nice scope. One difference is the Traveler is aspherized and the TEC is not.





The difference between Traveler and TEC110FL is the ED element, Traveler employs FPL-53, TEC uses fluorite.

In an apo lens design when the speed is increased to near borderline, such as the Traveler the need for aspherization enters the picture, fluorite allows the design to go a bit further before the use of aspheric elements become necessary.

But do not take my word for this, here is what Roland had to say on this subject in a post on tec-ug (#9797):

“To make a fully color corrected triplet with oil space, where the color correction extends all the way to 400nm, the choices are threefold. You can use an FPL-53 aspheric oiled triplet design which makes production a bit slow and dependent on highly skilled opticians. You can use and FPL-53 airspace design with all spherical surfaces, which requires that all 6 surfaces be very smooth and accurate. You can use Calcium Fluorite oiled triplet with all spherical surfaces.”

Vahe


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Paul G
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Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: vahe]
      #6347144 - 01/31/14 12:33 PM

Vahe,

Thanks for the info.


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RAKing
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Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6347347 - 01/31/14 02:39 PM

Quote:

There is only one possible contender for a similar telescope in all respects and that is the TEC APO110FL.




The TEC 110 is probably the closest thing to a Traveler, but I wouldn't dismiss the TeleVue NP-101, either. The Traveler and TEC are really hard to get; the NP-101 is a nice, easy to find substitute and the few that I have looked through had superb views.

Cheers,

Ron


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M13 Observer
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/09/06

Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: RAKing]
      #6347667 - 01/31/14 05:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There is only one possible contender for a similar telescope in all respects and that is the TEC APO110FL.




The TEC 110 is probably the closest thing to a Traveler, but I wouldn't dismiss the TeleVue NP-101, either. The Traveler and TEC are really hard to get; the NP-101 is a nice, easy to find substitute and the few that I have looked through had superb views.

Cheers,

Ron




Nope, the TV101 won't do. "In ALL respects." It is immediately disqualified as it is around 26 inches long.


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Jayo
super member


Reged: 02/03/07

Loc: Quebec City
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: M13 Observer]
      #6348465 - 02/01/14 03:08 AM

The TEC110 fluorite is indeed a worthy, high quality successor to the legendary Traveller. And it's robust TEC-designed 3.2'' rotating focusser is a pleasure to use.

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Fomalhaut
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/16/08

Loc: Switzerland
Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: vahe]
      #6348535 - 02/01/14 05:15 AM

Quote:


“To make a fully color corrected triplet with oil space, where the color correction extends all the way to 400nm, the choices are threefold. You can use an FPL-53 aspheric oiled triplet design which makes production a bit slow and dependent on highly skilled opticians. You can use and FPL-53 airspace design with all spherical surfaces, which requires that all 6 surfaces be very smooth and accurate. You can use Calcium Fluorite oiled triplet with all spherical surfaces.” (Roland Christen)

Vahe




There is a fourth way, which Roland obviously never dared (or was technically able to?) go: You can also use Calcium Fluorite air-spaced triplet design with all spherical surfaces.
Takahashi have gone this fourth (FCT-) way and are still going it for their big (200 - 300mm) top of the line apo-triplets. But their producer of those objectives (Canon Optron) seems to be the only one being able (and/or daring) to do it this way up to the present moment.
Two or three years ago their was a poll on "Uncensored Tak" (Yahoo) if there were at least 25 people interested in a new production run of at least 25 FCT-125. Obviously, they considered going that way again with smaller apertures. And as for me, whenever I'm using my by now 20 years old FCT-100, I'm still one of the happiest 4-inch observers out there...

Chris


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SteveC
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Re: How many AP Travelers new [Re: Paul G]
      #6349536 - 02/01/14 04:39 PM

Quote:


The TEC looks like a very nice scope. One difference is the Traveler is aspherized and the TEC is not.




Oh yeah, well...................my TEC110 is stupendisized, I don't need no stickin aspherizing.

Edited by SteveC (02/01/14 04:50 PM)


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