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Equipment Discussions >> ATM, Optics and DIY Forum

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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Powerless new [Re: Jeff Esposito]
      #6345646 - 01/30/14 05:23 PM

Well, as for the double truss, read this:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2571
but if you seriously think about mounting such a scope on an EQ mount, EEK!
That mount will have to be a super-heavy duty mount, perhaps at least
a Losmandy Titan, AP1200 or a Paramount ME or similar. Because not only will you need that capacity for anything even resembling low PE, but because such a large scope will make a huge wind sail. Unless it's to be mounted in a wind-protective observatory environment, you'll need a mount with at least twice the weight capacity of the scope you mount, and a really lightweight version of that size scope will be around 50 lbs.
My advice would be for a standard low COG dob for the 12" (whether ultralight or standard) and a smaller scope for astrophotography (like an 8" f/4 or a catadioptric if you wanted a longer focal length with small size and weight).

It's fun to construct a scope--I've done it a couple times--but unless you value your time at $0 per hour, or have a complete woodworking shop on hand, it's a lot easier and probably cheaper to simply buy a kit or even a finished structure.

P.S. If you want something really unique, try finishing the dob in something like a black piano lacquer finish or a gloss urethane finish several layers thick over a honey-stain. Then, not only beautiful, but fairly unique.


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careysub
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/18/11

Loc: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Re: Powerless new [Re: Jeff Esposito]
      #6345662 - 01/30/14 05:31 PM

Quote:

I really would like to try my hand at building a 12" truss tube dob, but I've no woodworking experience at all.

This means I own no power tools (other than a hand-held drill).

Is there some way I can do this without spending a bunch of money on tools such as a table saw and router?

I know there are "kits" out there that provide pre-cut wood -- but they seem expensive for what you get. Plus designing the dob seems like fun and I would lose out that with a kit.

So should I invest $500-$600 in some basic power tools and maybe take a beginner woodworking class so I don't cut off my thumbs?
...





Unless you are planning on taking up telescope building as a continuing hobby, expecting to build several scopes over the years, get a kit. Seriously. I know what I am talking about.

I went down the road you are contemplating and the total cost to get to where you want to go will considerably exceed what you expect, and it will take far longer than you think. The cost of the power tools is just part of the picture. If you really haven't done woodworking there are a bunch of non-power tools and materials you will find you need as well.

The cost for a Dobstuff kit, ready to assembly with a drill (which you have) other than sanding and finishing, in 12" size is $695. That (unrealistic) estimate of $600 for getting set up plus the cost of the materials for the build (even with no learner's wastage) already exceeds what Dennis charges. You will save money and time (lots of time) by going with the kit. Dennis offers the best prices in this space.

Designing scopes is fun. Lots of fun! But the time and start-up cost is substantial.

Even if you plan to get into ATMing in a continuing way, you could do far worse than starting with a kit to get your hand in.


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cpr1
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/24/12

Loc: Louisiana
Re: Powerless [Re: careysub]
      #6346159 - 01/30/14 10:10 PM

If you have no woodworking experience at all I would suggest a professionally made kit like dobstuff or a telekit.
Both designs are proven and tested and just work. Unless you plan to take up scopebuilding and woodworking as a hobby. Good luck.


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jpcannavo
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 02/21/05

Loc: Ex NYCer, Now in Denver CO!
Re: Powerless new [Re: Jeff Esposito]
      #6346556 - 01/31/14 06:44 AM

And what ever you decide, you should own:
The Dobsonian


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careysub
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/18/11

Loc: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Re: Powerless new [Re: mikey cee]
      #6346909 - 01/31/14 10:35 AM

Quote:

Use a clamped straight edge either wood or metal such as a yardstick etc. Mike




Helps, but jigsaw blades still flex some and then there is the edge splintering from the up and down cutting.

It is hard (I would say impractical if not impossible) to get a clean edge with a jig saw/sabre saw, whatever you get will have to be cleaned up in some other way (like routing or sanding with a sanding block or a belt sander). I made a nifty and simple jig to convert my hand held belt sander into a table belt sander, which works very well - saving space and money. You can shape wood quite well using such a set-up.

I find jig saws handy for rough cutting.


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Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Powerless new [Re: cpr1]
      #6346985 - 01/31/14 11:10 AM

Quote:

Unless you plan to take up scopebuilding and woodworking as a hobby. Good luck.





Hey Chris, hows it going,

last year James was offering unbuilt scope wood pieces and if you asked him he probably do the same.

just looked at the scope you built for your dad. looks really good. especially the black top with the moonlite connectors. Did you ever think about making those connectors? save yourself $150.

but couldn't see the cell...


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cpr1
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/24/12

Loc: Louisiana
Re: Powerless new [Re: Pinbout]
      #6347209 - 01/31/14 01:05 PM

Hi danny. Yes astro sky would be another good option for the OP's question. I don't need it since I build my own stuff now.

No i have not tried to build my own moonlite style connectors yet.
Good idea you have there.

I'll post some info on the scope once i finish. I am building a motorized eq platform for him also. Custom for this scope. It is a surprise for his retirement/ b-day. He has done countless things for me and my family so its the least i could do. Plus i get to build another scope in the process


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RossSackett
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: Memphis, TN
Re: Powerless new [Re: cpr1]
      #6347227 - 01/31/14 01:17 PM

You can easily build an 6-10" classic Dobson-style(circus-cannon)dobsonian entirely with hand tools. Add the luxury of an electric drill and you'll feel like a Rockefeller. A 12" truss would be no big deal--there aren't any dimension-sensitive parts in any kind of dob as long as each part fits to the others. Forget the tools and just do it, and if you catch the bug buy more tools and do it again.

Edited by RossSackett (01/31/14 01:20 PM)


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Jeff Esposito
member


Reged: 09/24/07

Loc: Omaha Ne
Re: Powerless new [Re: RossSackett]
      #6347418 - 01/31/14 03:20 PM

I'm doing pinbout's 12" with a GSO mirror, moonlight focuser, telrad fi1nder, 6 point mirror cell.

There's still a bunch of work to do, and I expect to mess up several times. If I mess up one of the plywood pieces, I'll just buy a minimum tools to fix it, which may involve a jigsaw for rough cuts and a router for smoothing them out.


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RossSackett
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: Memphis, TN
Re: Powerless new [Re: Jeff Esposito]
      #6347686 - 01/31/14 05:31 PM

My power tool priorities would be a cordless drill, then a circular saw for breaking down sheet goods, then an oscillating combo spindle- and belt-sander (like the Rigid), and only then a router. Though maybe a jigsaw before the router.

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brave_ulysses
super member


Reged: 04/19/09

Loc: far outside the wire
Re: Powerless new [Re: RossSackett]
      #6347773 - 01/31/14 06:07 PM

my .02 - get a cheeeeep table saw and upgrade the fence and then a cordless drill. many reckon that the table saw is the most dangerous tool in the shop and possibly the most useful. keep the blade cover on, use push sticks and don't wear loose fitting clothing while using the saw. if you don't want a table saw, i'd add a quality straight edge to mr sackett's post above and call it a good start. if you do get some power woodworking tools, you will be interested in dust collection shortly after you start the first project. this may help:

http://www.amazon.com/Oneida-Molded-Dust-Deputy-Cyclone/dp/B002JP315K/ref=sr_...


good luck!


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cpr1
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/24/12

Loc: Louisiana
Re: Powerless new [Re: brave_ulysses]
      #6347794 - 01/31/14 06:20 PM

Jeff, I actually meant "Good luck with your build". I was not trying to be sarcastic.

I have that Ridgid spindle/belt sander that Ross mentioned. It is a pretty nice sander and has a large table. A random orbit sander or you could just hand sand.

Lots of bar clamps get more than you think you need.


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Powerless new [Re: brave_ulysses]
      #6347863 - 01/31/14 06:57 PM

Quote:

this may help:

http://www.amazon.com/Oneida-Molded-Dust-Deputy-Cyclone/dp/B002JP315K/ref=sr_...





+1 on the dust deputy No need to buy paper filters for the shop vac again.

Don


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rboeAdministrator

*****

Reged: 03/16/02

Loc: Phx, AZ
Re: Powerless new [Re: don clement]
      #6348047 - 01/31/14 08:59 PM

Something a kit will give you; a well designed and built scope design straight out of the gate. If you decide to branch out on your own you will the basis of good design to start with already in your hands - and on hand.

Do not under estimate the usefulness of that.


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Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Powerless new [Re: cpr1]
      #6348730 - 02/01/14 09:38 AM

Quote:

. I don't need it since I build my own stuff now.





so..........mr. chris...........

when are you going to try your hand at grndng a mirror?



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cpr1
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/24/12

Loc: Louisiana
Re: Powerless new [Re: Pinbout]
      #6348859 - 02/01/14 10:57 AM

Ha, Yeah maybe I should try that next. How many have you made and how did they turned out?

Edited by cpr1 (02/01/14 10:58 AM)


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Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Powerless new [Re: cpr1]
      #6349537 - 02/01/14 04:39 PM

5 if you want them 1/8wave take it to delmarva

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