Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: rolo]
      #6346143 - 01/30/14 10:02 PM

Quote:

...not much you can do with three to four inches. I have never seen a small refactor outperferform a larger quality scope....ever!




Interesting.. not my experience at all. But then, I don't think in terms of one telescope outperforming another, I think in terms of one telescope being better suited for a certain task, better at providing a certain view. The right scope for the job. As I said in my previous post, "Small scopes for large objects, big scopes for small objects."

For example, the large scale nebulosity that extends from the region of the Veil Nebula up past the Cocoon nebula is unseen in even a medium aperture scope because the scale is simply too large, the contrast gradients overflow the eyepiece of even the widest field views. A small (80mm) fast (F/5) refractor operating at a large exit pupil and a 6 degree TFoV shows this region in stunning detail..

If you haven't seen a small scope show you things that are impossible with a large scope, well, I don't why that would be, honestly I can't explain it, the only thing I can think of is that you are using the smaller scopes for tasks better suited for larger scopes. Or maybe you don't have the right small scopes.

This is not to say that there are objects that are impossible to see with a 3 or 4 inch scope and better suited for a large aperture scope, this is also true.. Telescopes are like a photographer's lenses.. Some are good for one thing, some are good for another.

Jon Isaacs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fjs
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/25/13

Loc: Olympic Peninsula, USA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: rcwolpert]
      #6346147 - 01/30/14 10:04 PM

Quote:

Yes, at times. On the 14th I had quadruple bypass heart surgery.




Yikes!

Quote:

Tonight, 16 days later, I was able to place my 4" Vixen f/6.5 on the Losmandy mount (that stays outside), and enjoy a few minutes with Jupiter before clouds rolled in. The 10 lbs of the Vixen is the most I'm allowed to lift at this time. It great to have a few small scopes around. They certainly have their place.




That's great!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Usquebae
sage
*****

Reged: 06/11/13

Loc: 43 N, 73 W
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: actionhac]
      #6346190 - 01/30/14 10:26 PM

I don't know what qualifies as "smaller" and "bigger." My largest aperture scope is 8", which some CNers would call puny. My 4" scope is a meter long, which doesn't exactly seem small. Anyway, last night for the first time I had those two out together. At the 8" dob I found myself hopping from target to target, swapping EPs, testing filters, etc. etc. The only EP I used in the F/10 achro was a 31 Luminos, which gave beautiful views of approx. 32x, 2.6 degrees, and 3.1mm exit pupil that I could not tear myself away from. And it didn't much matter what the scope was pointed at, though I admit it tended to gravitate towards M35. Views through that EP are of similar size in my Z8 (38x, 2.2 deg) but comparatively sloppy at F/6 and with a much brighter background sky. Maybe a finer 8" mirror, parracor, and T6 31mm could compete on open clusters and aimless wanderings, but I'm happy with what I've got.

Edited by Usquebae (01/30/14 10:38 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
choran
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/28/12

Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: rcwolpert]
      #6346210 - 01/30/14 10:39 PM

Way to go, Bob, quick comeback! You'll be as good as new in no time and be back to doing all the things you like.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DocFinance
sage
*****

Reged: 01/14/14

Loc: Clear Lake, Texas
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes [Re: KWB]
      #6346230 - 01/30/14 10:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

...not much you can do with three to four inches. I have never seen a small refactor outperferform a larger quality scope....ever!



I firmly believe in different size and design telescopes for different tasks.





I agree. But I'm always biased toward the scope that gets used the most. Those tend to be smaller for me.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rcwolpert
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/13/12

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: choran]
      #6346341 - 01/30/14 11:54 PM

Quote:

Way to go, Bob, quick comeback! You'll be as good as new in no time and be back to doing all the things you like.




Thank you! Thanks to Frank also! There's a lot years of observing left to do! I just wanted to point out one of the great things about small scopes - even when you are not at your peak strength, you can still get out and enjoy the sky. That is a pretty significant plus.

- Bob


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: DocFinance]
      #6346523 - 01/31/14 05:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

...not much you can do with three to four inches. I have never seen a small refactor outperferform a larger quality scope....ever!



I firmly believe in different size and design telescopes for different tasks.





I agree. But I'm always biased toward the scope that gets used the most. Those tend to be smaller for me.




I probably use smaller scopes more frequently than larger scopes but in terms of hours at the eyepiece, I log more hours at the eyepiece with larger scopes because the sessions are longer.

Regarding clusters in an 8 inch versus a 4 inch... the same cluster should show more detail in the larger scope though the comparison should probably be made at equal exit pupils. A good comparison is M38 and the nearby Ngc1907. 1907 comes to life in a larger scope.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Usquebae
sage
*****

Reged: 06/11/13

Loc: 43 N, 73 W
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6347063 - 01/31/14 11:53 AM

Quote:

Regarding clusters in an 8 inch versus a 4 inch... the same cluster should show more detail in the larger scope though the comparison should probably be made at equal exit pupils. A good comparison is M38 and the nearby Ngc1907. 1907 comes to life in a larger scope.

Jon




The equivalent exit pupil (3.1mm) will mean my 18mm UWA in the Z8, which makes for more than double the magnification and less than half the TFoV compared to the 31 Luminos in C102. Although the bigger scope and higher mag "should show more detail" per arc second, there's gonna be a lot less seconds in the window, right? And might that not make the difference on some objects, like M35? Sometimes the frame makes the painting, and occasionally it even costs more.

But probably I don't know what I'm talking about.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: rcwolpert]
      #6347124 - 01/31/14 12:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Way to go, Bob, quick comeback! You'll be as good as new in no time and be back to doing all the things you like.




Thank you! Thanks to Frank also! There's a lot years of observing left to do! I just wanted to point out one of the great things about small scopes - even when you are not at your peak strength, you can still get out and enjoy the sky. That is a pretty significant plus.

- Bob




Bob:

I am glad to hear everything went well for you.

And smaller scopes are good because the energy required is so much less. I twisted my knee yesterday running for the bus so it looks like I won't be using my big scope this weekend but something smaller.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rcwolpert
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/13/12

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6347236 - 01/31/14 01:25 PM

Thank you, Jon. Each day I get stronger, but it's likely to be 2 weeks before I can lift the C11. I'm so happy to have a Unitron and a 4" Vixen. If not, I'd be having "Observing Withdrawal Systems", just as bad as Coffee Withdrawal!

I'm sorry to hear about your knee. Once again, small scopes come to the rescue. I picture myself in another 30 years, in a wheel chair at the eyepiece end of a Unitron doing variable star measurements. I just got a note from the AAVSO thanking me for 33 years of data taking. Time goes fast!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: rcwolpert]
      #6347484 - 01/31/14 03:55 PM

Quote:

Thank you, Jon. Each day I get stronger, but it's likely to be 2 weeks before I can lift the C11. I'm so happy to have a Unitron and a 4" Vixen. If not, I'd be having "Observing Withdrawal Systems", just as bad as Coffee Withdrawal!

I'm sorry to hear about your knee. Once again, small scopes come to the rescue. I picture myself in another 30 years, in a wheel chair at the eyepiece end of a Unitron doing variable star measurements. I just got a note from the AAVSO thanking me for 33 years of data taking. Time goes fast!




Congratulations on the 33 years, that is impressive...

That dream of the future.. I will be 66 here is less than 2 months, I would like to think that I will still be healthy and strong enough to still enjoy my biggest scope. But if I can't, I have a small collection of decreasing apertures that will hopefully carry me through.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starman876
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/08

Loc: VA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6347653 - 01/31/14 05:18 PM

My biggest scope is the C14 and I still handle it easily. And I have a year on you. Working out is the key to staying healthy. Oh yes, and do not take too much asprin.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #6347759 - 01/31/14 05:58 PM Attachment (4 downloads)

Quote:

My biggest scope is the C14 and I still handle it easily. And I have a year on you. Working out is the key to staying healthy. Oh yes, and do not take too much asprin.




My big scope is a little bigger than a C-14. Right now, my concern with my knee is not so much setting up the scope as climbing up and down the ladder.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starman876
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/08

Loc: VA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6347785 - 01/31/14 06:16 PM

Looks like it is time for one of those electric lifts to get you up and down to the eyepiece. Or maybe one of those rolling stairs like you see at Home Depot. That would work pretty good. Lot better than a ladder

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #6347854 - 01/31/14 06:51 PM

Quote:

Looks like it is time for one of those electric lifts to get you up and down to the eyepiece. Or maybe one of those rolling stairs like you see at Home Depot. That would work pretty good. Lot better than a ladder




I have a rolling folding ladder that's got a couple mods to make it easier and more comfortable. But it still a pretty big scope.

Jon




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starman876
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/08

Loc: VA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6347877 - 01/31/14 07:05 PM

I've seen bigger
Beautiful scope. Wish I had a scope like that. However, I have no place to put it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #6347929 - 01/31/14 07:36 PM

Quote:

I've seen bigger
Beautiful scope. Wish I had a scope like that. However, I have no place to put it.




I had no interest in a scope that big, I was pretty happy with my 16 inch. But then we bought a place with dark skies and a place to store a big scope and I realized I should start looking for a big scope.

You are right, the ladder is the key making the scope practical. With a smaller scope a good chair makes it all work, with a big scope its the ladder.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starman876
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/08

Loc: VA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6347936 - 01/31/14 07:43 PM

Maybe in my next house I will make sure it comes with a garage. I drool when I see these 20" scopes. The image scale in that scope must be overwhelming with that size mirror.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rcwolpert
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/13/12

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6348229 - 01/31/14 10:57 PM

Wow! Nice scope, Jon! I'm salivating here!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Are smaller scopes better than bigger scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #6348235 - 01/31/14 10:59 PM

This question is why a lot of people are quite to live in the 10 to 14 inch Dob world. I ended up with a 12.5 inch, F5 Portaball, which is just the right size for me.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
15 registered and 16 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Rich (RLTYS), Brian Risley 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 824

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics