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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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DDavid1771
newbie
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Reged: 04/20/13

Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP
      #6380420 - 02/17/14 02:28 AM

I recently purchased a C11 EDGE HD and am planning to get personal with imaging(AP). I'm interested in any suggestions regarding an appropriate mount for under(or close to) $2000. With a CCD camera and all extras, I might be pushing up to 40lbs.
Thanks in advance!


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ewave
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/16/09

Loc: northwest NJ
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: DDavid1771]
      #6380632 - 02/17/14 08:31 AM

In that price range brand new you are looking at a CGEM-DX. But you may only get minimum subs with that class mount. You have a very demanding OTA in terms of both weight and focal length. Also, even if you go with the DX please keep in mind that the DX is a beast of a mount. Please tell us readers if this is going to be a permanent set up or other. There are many options out there, including used, but 40lbs of gear at a native FL of 2800mm usually requires more mount for satisfying results.

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obin robinson
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/25/12

Loc: League City, TX
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: DDavid1771]
      #6380655 - 02/17/14 08:52 AM

Your best option to save money is to buy a quality mount used. Your best option for new is to buy the heaviest duty one you can afford. If you scan the classifieds, ebay, and craigslist you may come across a monster of a mount for a steal of a price.

obin


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Ron (Lubbock)
sage


Reged: 08/17/12

Loc: West TX
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: obin robinson]
      #6383044 - 02/18/14 02:48 PM

I have a hypertuned CGEM, and it could not handle my C11 Edge HD for imaging. It's fine for visual, but the mount is just too imprecise to image with this heavy, long focal length scope. Guide star was shaking all over the place. Fortunately, I got on the waiting list for a Paramount MX before I even bought the C11. Few people would want to spend so much on a mount, and it's way over your budget, but I can tell you firsthand that it performs wonderfully with the C11 Edge at its full focal length of 2800 mm.

Two suggestions here.

1) buy a CGEM class mount (used ones can be had for $1000) and get yourself a lighter, faster scope for imaging like an 8" Astrotech RC (under $1000). Keep your budget intact. Keep the C11 Edge for visual on the CGEM (and make sure you have enough counterweights). It's a great visual scope.

2) Save your money and buy a Paramount MX or Astro-Physics 1200 for use with the C11 Edge. Depending on which you choose, you might be on the waiting list for long enough to save the money.

If you're new to AP, it's probably not good advice to buy really expensive gear and you should go with #1. Many people (a majority?) give up on AP a few months after buying their gear and go back to visual due to various frustrations.



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dragonslayer1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: Ron (Lubbock)]
      #6383163 - 02/18/14 03:56 PM

What is another option is to get f/r down to f4 or faster, use it till you get something faster, or use video... There are quite a few using video with the C11 and some off CPC mounts, Kasey

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JMW
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/11/07

Loc: Nevada
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6383208 - 02/18/14 04:23 PM

If you want to image on a modest mount, consider Hyperstar at f/2. I image with the C11 EdgeHD at f/7 and f/10 but I am using an off axis guider and an AP900GTO.

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nmoushon
super member
*****

Reged: 10/12/11

Loc: Stephens City, VA
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6383211 - 02/18/14 04:23 PM

I'm in almost the exact same boat as you. You do not need a 5 digit budget for a mount. Yes a MX and AP1200 would be great mounts but if your initial budget is only $2k you'd be saving for several years before you have enough to buy either. Even used they are still 3x-4x your current budget.

I'm not saying you dont need a steady mount but you dont need to fork over $10k plus to obtain imaging either. I've been doing research for several months now and the minimum mount thats been suggested for quality AP with a C11 is the AP900. A used one will run you about $6.5k. Still way over your budget I know but with the weight (and more imprtantly) the focal length you will be working with this is about were you want to start.

There are people that have proven you can image with a cheaper mount but they put a lot of effort and tweaking into making it work. Even then they are limiting them selves with their sub lengths. For some that perfectly fine and they are happy with it. But if you want the best possible results then you will need a mount that can support that.

Another possible option is the new HDX110. It has to capacity and with quality guiding it should be able to handle the C11 for imaging. Though its only a couple weeks old here in the states its twin brother, the EQ8, has been out for several months now the the first reports are promising. There are several people sporting a C11HD on their EQ8 and are getting good first results for AP. They have had just horrid weather over there all year, especially in Britian, so there hasn't been much in the way of detailed test and reports yet but what has been done is promising. Its $5k new for mount head and tripod and only $3.7k for the mount head only. So if you are planning an obsy or at least a pier then this could be a very possible sollution if you don't mind waiting a couple months to lets some more reports come in.


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T1R2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/11/13

Loc: NeverWhere, 35*N
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: nmoushon]
      #6383362 - 02/18/14 05:52 PM

a used Celestron CGE mount will be fine, if you can find one. I wouldn't go with anything smaller like the AVX,CGEM

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PatHolland
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/11/09

Loc: Clever, Missouri
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: DDavid1771]
      #6383407 - 02/18/14 06:31 PM

I would think that the CGE Pro and Losmandy G11 would be contenders as well but more than $2K for these mid-ranged mounts.

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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: PatHolland]
      #6383455 - 02/18/14 06:55 PM

There is a guy on the Celestron CGEM Yahoo group who images with a C11 EDGE, doing 20-minute subs on a CGEM.

But he has an SXAO (Adaptive Optics unit).

If you have an SBIG STF8300 type camera, the AO8 is only $800. With a used CGEM, that totals only $1800, under your budget. You do need to have the right camera, however.

This for me is a very strong reason to buy an SBIG camera since they have the cheapest (and well-integrated) AO unit. You would need the OAG8300 and a suitable guide camera as well, however.


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Ron (Lubbock)
sage


Reged: 08/17/12

Loc: West TX
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6383885 - 02/19/14 12:09 AM

The adaptive optics route is the road less traveled for sure. It is one option I wish I had explored more before I purchased a CCD camera. I still wonder to what extent it can overcome some of the high-frequency spikes in tracking that are common with mid-range mounts like the CGEM? I guess the guy on the Yahoo group is pulling it off, so someone has figured it out.

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orlyandico
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: Ron (Lubbock)]
      #6383986 - 02/19/14 01:59 AM

Ron, in theory the AO8 can update at 5Hz, so spikes should be a piece of cake. Now whether your guide camera can see decent stars at 0.2 second exposures.. is a whole different ball of wax.

AO has pretty much the same challenges as OAG (needs a very sensitive guider) with the additional requirement that you need shorter exposures.

Or you can use 1-2 second exposures like the rest of the world, and just use it to smooth out your mount's hiccups. In that case you will not be compensating for the seeing anymore which is supposedly what tip-tilt AO is really all about.


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dr.who
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/05/12

Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6394721 - 02/24/14 06:06 PM

You can avoid the beastly nature of the CGEM DX by getting a used portable pier, adding castors and leveling feet to it, and a pier plate. There are only two things different on the DX from the regular CGEM. The tripod(spreader included), which is for the CGE. And the weight bar/weight. The bar is longer and thicker and the weight has a bigger hole in it and is a few pounds heavier. The mount head is EXACTLY the same between the two mounts. Same motors, gears, motor control board, etc...

Used AP pier: $600
Castors: $20
Leveling feet: $8
Custom pier plate: $150

Then you can image with it the same way as you would on a CGEM DX. Though you will need two 17 lbs weights plus probably a 11. By the way how are you arriving at 40 lbs?

For example: The SBIG STF-8300 with OAG, guidecam, and FW8 comes in at 5 lbs and the OTA is 28 lbs for a total of 33 lbs. And the SBIG is a heavy CCD. That would put you at just over 60% of the rated weight of the DX. Within the top end of the spec recommended for AP. So it can and will work with patience. But you will want very good polar alignment, run PPEC, and guide. And you should consider the focal reducer for it. 2,800 mm is very narrow...

Alternately you can just bite the proverbial bullet and get the DX.

Orly- Are you sure the AO8 will work with the STF? I thought it only worked with the STT... It would be great if it did though!


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Skunky
sage


Reged: 09/16/13

Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6394877 - 02/24/14 07:43 PM

Quote:

Ron, in theory the AO8 can update at 5Hz, so spikes should be a piece of cake. Now whether your guide camera can see decent stars at 0.2 second exposures.. is a whole different ball of wax.

AO has pretty much the same challenges as OAG (needs a very sensitive guider) with the additional requirement that you need shorter exposures.

Or you can use 1-2 second exposures like the rest of the world, and just use it to smooth out your mount's hiccups. In that case you will not be compensating for the seeing anymore which is supposedly what tip-tilt AO is really all about.




I've had an SX AO up to 17hz.. but of course I was testing on sirius


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: Skunky]
      #6394936 - 02/24/14 08:15 PM

"The AO-8T systems can be installed by the user to any STT cameras (or any former ST-7/8/9/10/2000/4000 camera with USB electronics)."

So I was mistaken.. a dual sensor camera, or one that supports the remote guide head, is needed.

For the rest of us there's the SXAO or the dodgy Orion equivalent.


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Neptune
member
*****

Reged: 04/16/07

Loc: Arizona
Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6395786 - 02/25/14 09:14 AM

Get a nice used CGE. I picked one up for $1,800 with GPS.

David


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dr.who
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/05/12

Re: Best mount options for C-11 HD EDGE Scope for AP new [Re: Neptune]
      #6396081 - 02/25/14 12:15 PM

Sorry Orly but just to confirm you are using the SXAO on the STF? I ask because before I start saving to get it I want to be sure...

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