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Smokeman
member
Reged: 09/27/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Lake Havasu, AZ, USA
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I have an old (25+ years) Sears 7x35 Wide Angle binocular. A search of their website did not find any hits so I do not know any other specs. I have been using them to compliment my new Orion XT8 Intelliscope but would like to purchase another pair so my wife and I can each have a pair. These 7x35 seem to work very nice for what I’m using them for but I don’t have anything else to compare them to.
I have been reading some of the posts regarding binocs and it seems like I could make a career out of researching all the different brands. Unfortunately, I live in the sticks so I can not easily drop in a non-big box retailer to test some out; all we have is Wal-Mart and K-Mart. I’m going to have to rely on recommendations then order online.
Besides star gazing we plan on using the binocs for wildlife viewing when we go on vacations.
I don’t want to spend a lot of money as the XT8 pretty much blew my budget. I’d like to spend in the neighborhood of $75 - $150.
Some folks have recommended I not exceed 7x (or maybe 8x) because I do not plan on using a tripod, we’ll be hand holding them. They say a higher power is hard to steady without a tripod or bracing yourself against a building or chair.
We’re both 50+ so Exit Pupil size comes into play if I’m reading the messages on the forum properly; too high of a number won’t match up to our eyes very well.
We both wear glasses so a high Eye Relief number would allow us to wear our glasses while using the binocs but we both can focus the current 7x35 binocs just fine without our glasses. As a matter of fact, we normally do NOT wear our glasses when using the binocs but it can be a pain taking the glasses on and off.
There are so many models available I thought maybe I’d just stick with Orion. Their Outsider 8x40 seems a little on the low end (fully coated instead of multi-coated; low eye relief number of 17.8, but a good exit pupil of 5.0), their Scenix 7x50 looks better on paper (some fully coated, some multi-coated, fairly high eye relief of 20, exit pupil of 7.1) and their UltraView 7x50 slightly better than the Scenix on paper (multi-coated, eye relief of 22, exit pupil of 7.1) but they also have “twist-lock eyecups” to improve viewing with glasses.
I read an Orion 8x Shootout review on CN and he actually preferred the cheaper Outsider but thought they were more like 9x being compared to 8x. Also, at 9x it is a ways outside my 7x or 8x self-imposed limit.
Are these specs really that important in a binoc of this price range or am I making a big deal out of nothing?
Any comments or recommendations would be appreciated.
-------------------- Orion Skyquest XT12 Intelliscope Dob w/ COL
Celestron G5 on a CG-3 Mount
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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Smokeman,
If I want to recommend a great binocular of 7x35/8x40 available in the pricerange under 150$, it would be the Minolta Activa WP FP. They are fully multi coated and are in my opinion very sharp. But then you mention the eye relief of the Orion Outsider, a number of 17,8mm is good for a wide angel binocular. Almost all 7x35 and 8x40 in the pricerange and quality you want have wide angel oculars. About the Minolta Activa WP FP the 7x35 model is stated to have 19mm ER and the 8x40 18,5mm. They have a large ocular lens of about 22mm and offer in my opinion a complete satisfactory ER with eyeglasses on. Have you tried them? Know that stated ER of binoculars can be very different in practice. You have to try before you by.
Regards, Patric
-------------------- *2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold 6x30 Yosemite
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*No name (Kunming) 15x70
*Scopos ED APO 66
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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KennyJ
   
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10163
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Smokeman ,
You asked :
< Are these specs really that important in a binoc of this price range or am I making a big deal out of nothing >
First : welcome to this forum !
Second : THOSE SPECS REALLY ARE THAT IMPORTANT -- no matter WHAT the price range .
Third : You are NOT making a big deal out of nothing !
For me , it was pleasure to read your post .
You described and explained many important details which many people probably wouldn't have even considered in such a situation .
I think you are in PRECISELY the " right area " with 7 x 35s
Unfortunately , 7 x 35 is nowhere near as commonly found a specification these days as it was a few years back .
But there ARE a few newer models I've come across recently in the 7 x 32 , 7 x 36 and 7.5 x 36 range .
One model which springs to mind which I think may be useful for you within your budget is the Nikon SPORTER 8 x 36 .
Use GOOGLE search to check these out .
Good luck !
Kenny
-------------------- If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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I will agree with Kenny about the Sporter 8x36. They are comfortable and supreme for use with eyeglasses and have a fairly large FOV. Actually I have considered to get them self. But they are more expensive than the models I recommended, and roofs who are not phase coated. That means (I dare to claim it without to have done a side by side comparison) not really the same sharpness. But they are more reliable and better suited for an allround use. A good value for the money.
Regards, Patric
-------------------- *2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold 6x30 Yosemite
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*No name (Kunming) 15x70
*Scopos ED APO 66
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1269
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Have you considered the Oberwerk 8x40 Mariner? Nice binocular with a nice price tag. This is my current grab-n-go unit. Just a (bit) on the heavy side. Built like a tank, as they say.
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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Yes I really have considered the Oberwerk 8x40, but your are the first I know who owns one, and I have not read any review of it. Before I ordered the 11x70 last year I considered to get the Mariner 10x60 but didn't because the lack of reviews. I (and of course many other at CN) would be pleased to read a review of the Mariner 8x40.
Regards, Patric
-------------------- *2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold 6x30 Yosemite
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*No name (Kunming) 15x70
*Scopos ED APO 66
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1269
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Hey Patric,
I will try to do a review of this binocular when I get enough free time, as I would want to do it justice. Standard answer, right?
Actually, even tho it's a CF, it's construction reminds me a bit of the M13A1 6x30 military binocular produced during WWII.
I think it is a he__ of a bang for the buck, but, as I have stated, it's rather heavy.
Regards,
Dave.
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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According to what I recently have read I think I should have ordered the Mariner 10x60 instead of the 11x70 (or maybe the Mariner 7x50). "Built like a tank" and even heavier than the 11x70, but I think it's shorter. The Mariners are actually like Fujinon but with center focusing. I look forward to your review of the 8x40.
Regards, Patric
-------------------- *2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold 6x30 Yosemite
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*No name (Kunming) 15x70
*Scopos ED APO 66
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Smokeman, Can I suggest that you buy a higher spec model (e.g. a Zeiss 8x30 or 7x50)from a reputable seller on ebay? This approach would seem to fit your geographical position, you can buy "as new", and perhaps get a bargain! If you don't like them, sell them again on ebay! I have quite a bit of experience of this, being a pensioner who has taken up collecting binoculars after retirement. After 3 years of buying and selling on ebay, trying out many different types and specs, I now have a far better idea of what suits me than I ever did over the 50 years of using binoculars during my working life. It is a great hobby, and providing you are careful about who you buy from, it can even be profitable! Please let me know if you need any advice or information. Kind regards, Eric.
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KennyJ
   
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10163
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Eric ,
Welcome to Cloudy Nights !
It may be worth mentioning that although I'm sure MOST binoculars bought and sold on e - bay are the genuine article , there is evidence recently that there have been some FAKE models doing the rounds , particularly with ZEISS logos on them .
Kenny
-------------------- If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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ChrisR
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/11/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Washington
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Hey DJB that M13A1 you mentioned. Was it ever made by Wollensak of Rochester New York. The reason I ask is I have a 6x30 that I am restoring. From what little I have been able to find it may have bee produced sometime between 1910 and 1930. I was just curious if it may be the same bino, and if you might have some suggestions to were I may want to do my research. If you need pictures I have them.
Chris
-------------------- Journeyman Optical Technician
Amateur Astronomer.
All around good guy
Orion, StarMax 127
Canon, 12x36 IS
Minolta, 8x25 WR
Halco, 7x50
Nippon Kogaku, Micron 7x35
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1269
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Hi Chris,
My M13A1 was mfg. by Westinghouse, and it has coated optics. I bought it on eBay a couple of months ago. I was surprised as to just how excellent the build, quality, and condition it was in, considering it's age (+ coated optics).
I cleaned it up which was not much of a job. I removed the reticle, which was "dirty," and set that aside.
A good reference is "A Guide to Handheld Military Binoculars" by Dr. Stephen Rohan.
On page 22 is a very similar unit, the M3 Army, and the M13A1 is referenced. The book on Amazon is ~$90.00. There are a few typos and ambiguous entries, but it includes a wealth of info. I trust this helps you out some.
Regards,
Dave.
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1269
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Hi again Chris,
No, this unit was mfg. circa 1943-1944. Sorry, forgot to mention in previous post.
Regards,
Dave.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Kenny, Thanks for your welcome! As you know, I am new to Cloudy Nights, and I am not sure of the boundaries for the discussions yet, but whilst I agree that there has been the occasional "fake" Zeiss Jena model on ebay, most of the ones that most people regard as fakes, in my experience have turned out to be Japanese made Zeiss Jena, under license by Zeiss, not strictly fakes. The optics are normally up to normal Zeiss standards, but the build quality is somewhat inferior to the East German "original". I think also, whilst on this subject, it should be pointed out that it is very easy to recognise the "fakes" by the screw positions in the prism plates. This has been discussed within the Cloudy Nights forum by, I believe, Holger Merlitz, providing detailed information on recognition. I must emphasize again, though, that there are, and have been, very few cases of this problem, and prospective purchasers need only be advised to familiarise themselves with the aforementioned recognition details, and bear them in mind. I have specialised in Zeiss from a collecting, buying and selling perspective for some time now, and have not had one "fake" experience yet. I do have a warning note, however, on my ebay "about me" page, and guarantee that any I sell are the "geniune" article, made in Germany. This is one of the reasons I recommend anybody buying binoculars on ebay to ensure they buy from a reliable seller, as can be seen from their feedback profile. I do hope that this discussion does not contravene the Cloudy Nights terms of reference. By the way, Kenny, thank you for all the fascinating and valuable input to Cloudy Nights. I have been reading the reviews and discussions for some time now, but since I am not an astronomer, only a pensioner who has started collecting binoculars since retiring, I have not felt qualified so far to make any worthwhile contribution myself. I am keenly interested in the site though, and hope, as my experience grows, to be able to contribute more. Kind regards, Eric.
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ChrisR
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/11/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Washington
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Thanks DJB i'll look for that book. Of course I will check the library first since I'm cheap. Again thank you.
-------------------- Journeyman Optical Technician
Amateur Astronomer.
All around good guy
Orion, StarMax 127
Canon, 12x36 IS
Minolta, 8x25 WR
Halco, 7x50
Nippon Kogaku, Micron 7x35
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1269
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Chris,
It probably is the defacto book to have, unless one has access to some MIL stuff.
You are quite welcome. Happy I could help here!
Regards,
Dave.
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