Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33104
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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I am going to upgrade my handheld bino's from the cheap $35.00 Bushnell 12x50's that I now own to Oberwerk's 9x60 FMC's. The reasoning behind this move - besides the obvious: 12x is a little much for extended handheld sessions. I believe 9x would settle things down considerably. 60mm vs. 50mm - the obvious. FMC vs. whatever $35.00 gets you...
Opinions or Ideas are welcome. Realize that I intend to mount a larger pair of bino's, so these are just for handheld quick look sessions.
Scott
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  Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The only comparable binocular Oberwerk has is the 8x56mm. It's a choice between either slightly higher power and size or slightly lighter weight and a wider field of view. I myself would probably choose the 8x56mm, but the choice is based intirely on the numbers.
With either the 56mm or 60mm binoculars, and either Oberwerk's 90mm or 100mm binoculars, you will have a great range, but I think there will still be a gap which has the best views in my opinion. The 15x70mm binoculars, the field of view is still large enough for scanning and the magnification is high enough that it can compare to the larger pairs.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12601
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Think hard and measure your own eyes before you buy binoculars with 6.5-7mm exit pupils. They are a special breed. best suited for those with very large eye pupils and very very dark skies. otherwise the will not perform anywhere near what the size may indicate.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33104
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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Most of the time they would be used in moderate light polution, but they would also be ensured of use every time I take a trip to dark sites. Would a compromise like the 15x70's on a bogen tripod be a better option for an intro to big bino's? It seems like anything with larger objectives has either too large of an exit pupil, or it has too high of a magnification for handheld use. Are 10x50's the best all around handheld bino's?
Scott
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Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Scott, I think for the magnification you want (8x or 9x), a pair with a large exit pupil will work just as well as something smaller. HOWEVER, if you were to get someting in the range of 8x42mm you would most likely also get a wide field of view. But I think that in this magnification range image quality is more important than field of view, and I would go with the low mag, small, and sharp AFoV.
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33104
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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Thanks Daniel.
Looks like you have some Obie's also.
Scott
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Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12601
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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certainly 10x50s can be considered "one of the best" all around binos. If I were in the market today, I'd be comparing those Nikon Action Extreme 10x50s that Barry is highlighting to anything else I had in mind.
The 15x70s go a huge giant step up from hand helds and yet are light weight enough to be mounted on even a decent but not to hevy tripod/head combo. It's a much bigger step in performance from 10x50s to 15x70s than it is from 15x70 to 20x90or100. And the biggest gain (to 15x70s) can be made for the least cost. Certainly puts 15x70s in the highest end of the cost/benefit scale. For 15x70s, I think the best on the market is the Oberwerk.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Scott, how about a monopod for the Oberwerks 15x70s. That's what I've decided to do.
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2573
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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I don't think you will experience a noticable gain moving from 12X50 to 9X60, FMC or not. Prof Edz has shown us again and again an increase in magnification is more important than an equal % gain in objective size. My own experience with binos ranging from 7X50, 10X40, 12X60 20X80 and 25X100 indicates that a significant gain in limiting magnitude from 12X60 to 20X80. Less so going from 50 to 60mm or 80mm up to 100mm.
Unless you have mag 6+ skies and large exit pupil my guess is you may not notice any gain at all switching from 12X50 to 9X60. I prefer binos with exit pupil of 3.5-5mm for astronomy. Binos with exit pupil of 6mm or larger are best used for night time terrestrial observation.
An owner of the Oberwerk 25X100 Military bino and Fuji 25X150 reported that his Fuji 150mm have an advantage over the Oberwerk 100 only when naked eye limiting mag is 6+. Under mag 5.5 skies his Oberwerk 100mm perfoms just as well.
Erik D
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33104
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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Tom,
I was just on the Oberwerk site looking at the monopod with the hand grip. Looks cool, but how much does it stabilize the view? The 15x70's would be a great match for this.
Erik,
I think that for handheld, I have finally decided on the Oberwerk 11x56's. A little better for handheld than the 12x50's, as far as mag. is concerned, FMC, and 25% more light grasp than the 50mm's. They also satisfy the exit pupil requirement by being 4.5mm. Overall I think for handheld - they should do just fine.
For the "Big Guns", I am still researching. They will be at least 20x90 or bigger. That will be an appreciable jump in performance.
Scott
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Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Scott, the 11x56mm have a listed exit pupil of 4.5mm. If the aperture really is 56mm this would mean the magnification is 12.45.
The Oberwerks will give a much more pleasing view than a $35 pair of binoculars, how deep it can see is a second consideration.
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16419
Loc: Brooker, FL
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In a coupla' weeks, you can try my Ober 22x100s...bigger is better. 
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33104
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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Daniel,
You are right - never trust the propaganda sheets...
Rusty,
I am definitely taking you up on your offer. How do you have them mounted?
Scott
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Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16419
Loc: Brooker, FL
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They're on a Quickset Samson tripod (Long elevator), with a QS head - reversed and with the counterbalance springs removed to get decent altitude without irritation. 
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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777Guy
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 574
Loc: 48'29N 122'37W
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Scott,
Sounds like you are going through the same search I am.
I currently have a 10x70 Fujinon which are great binocs but a tad too heavy for any extended hand held viewing sessions. I use them for both terestrial and astronomical viewing. The main problem I have with the Fujinons is that the individual eyepiece focusing may be ideal for astronomical viewing, but it makes daylight terrestrial viewing difficult, especially if you are tracking a bald eagle that is moving around. So I have been reading every review on Cloudy Nights and have found a wealth of information from members of this forum that know a great deal about binocs. I have considered the Miyauchi 30x77, excellent reviews but individual EP focusers. The Oberwerk 15x70, 20x80, 20x90s and 22x100s, all have good to excellent reviews and have center focusing.
The Takahashi 20x60 also intriqued me but again has center focusers and narrow FOVs. EdZ seems too like his 15x70 Oberwerks as do some other folks who know binoculars. The Nikons are tad too expensive for me as are are the Cannon 18x50 IS. So if you don't want to spend more than you have too to get a high quality, good optically performing binoc, I am leaning towards the Obers 15x70s as a good all around binoc. Again, I am basing my needs on binocs that can be held for tracking birds in flight and can be mounted on a tripod for astronomical viewing. If you are only interested in astronomical viewing, then perhaps a larger objective would be better but would not be good for hand holding for extended periods. You would need a good tripod and mount for anything larger than 70mm I believe.
Hope this helps, how's training coming along? Must be close to being done.
Cheers,
Jim
Edited by 777Guy (03/07/04 11:29 PM)
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Jim, have you considered getting a strictly terrestrial viewing binoc for those bald eagles? Seriously, considering where you are and what you can see, I would think about a dedicated set of high-power binocs for daytime viewing would be essential. If I'm not looking for eagles, I'd be looking for the local orca pod...
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33104
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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Hi Jim,
Training is going well - 6.5 weeks to go.
I am definitely looking for 2 sets of bino's. One simply handheld, the other on a good sized mount. 15x70's would be the best all around single pair - I agree.
I have pretty much settled on the:
Oberwerk 11x56 (handheld)
Oberwerk 20x90 (mounted)
If I went with the 15x70's, I would get the monopod.
Scott
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Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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777Guy
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 574
Loc: 48'29N 122'37W
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Greetings Tom and Scott,
I guess what I was attempting to accomplish is buying just one binocular for viewing Bald Eagles and Orcas and ocassional sweeps of the Milky Way. However, I am sure that I will also want a 20x90 or 22x100 for more serious viewing of DSO's. Scott's choice of 11x56 is an excellent choice for a hand held and a larger pair that would be mounted.
If I could only have one pair, then I would go with the 15x70s. The monopod looks interesting, had not considered that.
I am discovering that I am using my binoculars more than my AT1010, love that 3D effect. I only use my telescope now for planetary and lunar viewing. With my Fujinons my view of M42 and other DSOs are more spectacular to me than my AT1010. I get more viewing in with binoculars simply because I can walk out on my deck and I am viewing, whereas with my scope it takes more planning and time to set up. If I had a 20x90 or 22x100 binocular on a tripod I may not use my scope at all. Unless of course I decide that I want to take up Astrophotography then I would need an APO or 14" SCT! Hey thats the ticket!!
We may get clear skys this week, but of course, I have to go to work, and it is forecast to start raining when I get back.
Clear Skys,
Jim
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Jim, I hope you get to view tonight. I saw you rother post and I think you will be happy with all of your choices. You will really be glad to have the mount with those bigger binocs. Please let us know how they perform for you tonight.
In regards to your nighthawk...Since you are only doing planetary/lunar viewing, you might consider trading that Nighthawk for an 80/9d. It is more tailored for our closer neighbors.
Clear skies to you!
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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777Guy
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 574
Loc: 48'29N 122'37W
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Tom,
Thats a good idea, I had not considered trading. Does Vic take trades? I agree that the 80/9d would be a better planetery scope. My AT1010 is good for rich field views of the Milky Way and have had some nice views of Saturn and the Moon, but was disappointed when I looked at Jupiter.
Cheers,
jim
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