Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi all. Yeah, I could have thrown this post in the Bino forum...  BUT it's scope related so bear with me.
In addition to my red dot finder, I was thinking of investing in some decent Bino's to use as a finder or finder-helper. The small ones I have now have come in handy with a few objects and bigger ones can be used for even more stuff. Does this make sense to do? Anyone else employ Bino's as finders? My red dot finder is nice...SOMETIMES! Other times, I want to chuck it in the woods. 
The Celestron 15x70's look reasonable for $79.99 and I suspect they would help me "hop" to various objects that I cannot grab with the zero power finder.
Thanks gang,
Mike
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12599
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I use tripod mounted binoculars as a finder all the time. Last two nights I had my 12x50s on a tripod next to my scope. When I was having trouble hopping from dGem to NGC 2932, the binocs allowed me to look at the star field and compare it to my chart directly. Same thing last night. Used the binocs to look at 16,17,18,19 Aur, compared to my chart, got a picture of the star field in my mind,then jumped right to M38.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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I think the key with the 15x70s is to have them mounted in some way, as Ed does. Otherwise, go to a 10x50 size for handholding. I have 8x40s that work great for finding stuff when hand held.
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I think the key with the 15x70s is to have them mounted in some way, as Ed does. Otherwise, go to a 10x50 size for handholding. I have 8x40s that work great for finding stuff when hand held.
Hey Tom. 10x50, huh? Thanks for the info, it's hard to tell what would be too big for handheld use. Plus, I'll save some cash too! 
mike
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Rockman
super member
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 113
Loc: Midwest
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I always have a set of binos close by to help find object. I use a set of Meade 9X63's..
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Meade AR-6 GOTO with stuff
Meade 9X63 Binos
Wanted Meade 12.5 Starfinder
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33098
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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My 12x50's are pushing it for handheld use. Light enough, but 12x for me is a little shaky after a few minutes. 10x would be fine for me though. I definitely need to upgrade my equipment. I might buy a monopod to steady the 12x50's.
Scott
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  Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Mike, I've read from our binocular gurus time and time again that 10x is the realistic limit for handholding binocs and that 7x or 8x are ideal. If you have a chance, try to go try some on for size at your local sporting goods store. The new Nikon Action Extremes are getting great reviews over in the binoc section.
Personally, I have a hard time looking up at the stars with my 8x40s for more than 30 seconds...which, fortunately, is about right for scanning and star hopping.
Seriously, try as many as you can before buying some.
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Mike, I've read from our binocular gurus time and time again that 10x is the realistic limit for handholding binocs and that 7x or 8x are ideal. If you have a chance, try to go try some on for size at your local sporting goods store. The new Nikon Action Extremes are getting great reviews over in the binoc section.
Personally, I have a hard time looking up at the stars with my 8x40s for more than 30 seconds...which, fortunately, is about right for scanning and star hopping.
Seriously, try as many as you can before buying some.
I will definitely try some out. Comfort is the key along with the ability to hunt around without tearing a bicep muscle.
I have a local Celetsron dealer and the assorted sporting goods shops. I shall hunt around and look for the biggest/best I can get for some starhopping.
Thanks gang!
Mike
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33098
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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Mike,
See the thread in the Binoculars Forum titled "Thanks for the Help - I just bought 2 Oberwerks". I just went through the same thing you are going through. My torture is now over - yours is just beginning... 
I asked so many questions, I thought someone was about to donate a pair of binos to me just to get me to quit PM'ing them. 
The people on CN's are fantastic !!! They helped immeasurably in my choice.
Good luck Sir.
Scott
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Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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stepchild
sage
Reged: 02/24/04
Posts: 468
Loc: Roy, Utah
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You mean I'm not the only one with a lot of questions?
However you made up your mind and acted on it. I'm still debating it in my mind.
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Mike
Stellarvue 80/9D Refractor
Oberwerk 11x56
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 33098
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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I was debating until about 2 hours ago. A few nice people convinced me to quit goofing off and get some binos. I am much happier now. (So are the people I was pestering...)
I will go through this again when I start looking for some really big binos....
Scott
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Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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I've heard time and again that 50mm is about as large as you can go for handheld.
Given 50mm, the question is which power? As Tom L and others have said, 10x is probably the highest for handheld...not just because of shakiness...but I personally think because of exit pupil, too. 10x50s give 5mm exit pupil. 12x50s give just over 4mm exit pupil and will be significantly dimmer. 7x50s give a huge 7mm exit pupil, which is arguably too bright and less contrasty. Washed out sky kind of thing.
Seems like 5mm exit pupil is a good one to shoot for...pretty bright to see fainter objects, but not so bright as to oversaturate your dark un-adapted pupil.
Consider that image brightness/contrast in 10x50s is the same as in 8x40s (because exit pupil = aperture div by mag). So, if you want a 5mm exit pupil (or a given exit pupil of your preference), consider that there are multiple-sized binos you can achieve this with, and choose according to what you are comfortable with weight-wise.
Personally, I'd let the largest I could handle, just so I could have more magnification. I'd prefer 10x over 7x in this sense, so if I ever get a pair of dedicated handheld astro-binoc, they will probably be 10x50. But if I just wanted 8x, I'd get 8x40 (nice 5mm exit pupil), not 8x50 (6.2mm exit pupil...maybe too bright).
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Hardin 12"
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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Oh...I was also wondering...more in direct response to Mike's question about mounting binocs....what about mounting/piggybacking those big binocs right on to your scope? Now that's what I'd call a finder scope! Would this be viable??
Ooooh...this is an exciting thought/possibility to me. Tell me this is possible, and I just might rush out for a pair of 20x100s!
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Hardin 12"
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Well, think about it Jeff...in order to view through both sides, it would have to mounted in such a way that the visual path would remain parallel with the path of the scope...Might not be worth all the trouble to engineer it.
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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yeah, I figured it would be tricky or awkward, but I'm sure someone could come up with something clever. A long bracket that keeps the binos sufficiently far from the scope so that both eyes could look through them. But then you'd have balancing issues I guess.
Probably wouldn't work with a Newt at all, but I imagine you could pull it off with a Mak or SCT. The bino eyepieces could be right behind the back of the scope. And these are scopes that would benefit most from a good finder, since their FOV is small. But I guess they'd only be convenient when the scope was at an angle to allow upright view through the binos. When you get the funny scope angles, it would be lame.
Ok...nevermind....probably wouldn't work.
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Hardin 12"
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Well, for the Mak, if you have a dovetail bracket, you could get an L-bracket and modify it to fit so that they sat at the right distance to use as a finder...it would still be pretty low and you'd have to crouch or whatever...but it could be done.
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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You mean there's folks that don't use binoculars to find their way around the nightsky?
I'm gobstruck.
Hie thee to a good set of 10x50s, and quick!
Mike Swaim
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18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
....what about mounting/piggybacking those big binocs right on to your scope?
I've heard of someone using a Giro-2 alt-az mount that way: a telescope on one arm, and Miyauchi 20x100 binocs on the other arm to use as a finder. I can't remember what telescope he used, perhaps an 8" SCT. You'll need to fabricate an L-shaped bracket to hold the binocs, but otherwise it should be easy.
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RandyR
Enginerd
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 14082
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
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Buck Rogers,
I love my Fuji 16x70's, use them on a tripod right next to my main SCT all the time. Now the real trick would be to find a way to mount them on the scope. Hmmm, the tripod mount has a couple of screw holes in it... the scope back plate has a couple of screws... Ah, but how to look aroud the TV85 that's already mounted there. Nope, guess I'm sticking with seperate tripod.
By the way, the 16x70s are pretty amazing to look thru even if I don't set the scope up....
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"Dark Skies & Great Viewing"
RandyR / NQ0R
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch
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