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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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After much anticipation, the AstroWood HD parallelogram mount showed up today via UPS. Of course, a solid deck of clouds, fog and rain preceded the delivery truck by about 3 days and is expected to linger until this coming monday...so much for my self-proclaimed immunity to the "new equipment curse".
Before I show a few pics of this really nice mount, let me detail some specifics about Roy's craftsmanship and business ethic. I have been doing commerce on the web for about 6 years, both as an eBay seller and as a frequent buyer with countless online retailers. I can say without a moment's hesitation that Roy is the most cordial and considerate person I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with. We maintained close email contact throughout the process and Roy called me on the phone to finalize the specifics of the deal and the shipping.
Since this mount is a prototype, there were a few minor issues that Roy clearly outlined to me ahead of the deal, so there were no surprises waiting down the road. The mechanics and the functionality of the mount were laid out in fine detail leaving nothing to guesswork. Given that I possessed an unusual tripod that required custom fitting of the mount, this process of communication was vital to the success of the prototype. Roy made all of this an enjoyable experience, but before I give the impression that he is new to mounts, let me be more specific. This mount is a prototype only in the sense of it's size and load-bearing characteristics. Roy has built several parallelogram mounts for smaller (<70mm) binoculars that are a hit with his astronomy club. This new mount represents an extension and reinforcement of previous designs, and my initial impressions of it are very positive.
The mount arrived disassembled, to save space and shipping charges. We had talked in advance about this part of the process, and I assured Roy that I was capable of putting together the mount and tweaking it. Having it shipped fully assembled was an option, but why pay all that extra money?
The "head" was pre-assembled in one big piece (the actual mount for the bino, pivot points, and "pan handle"). The arms of the parallelogram were bundled seperately, as was the mounting plate and counterweight mount. All the bolts, washers, nuts, knobs, and whatnots were all seperated neatly into ziploc bags.
This is another thing that impressed me. I have bought a lot of furniture and stuff that required assembly. Rarely I have ever seen something so effectively packaged and labeled. Every part was individually labelled with tape, and Roy had enclosed a hand-written booklet of assembly instructions complete with diagram. All that was required of me in the way of tools was : a socket wrench, and #2 square head screwdriver (robertson #2). In about 15 minutes, I had the mount fully assembled. Earlier in the day, I went to the sporting-goods store and bought the necessary counterweights. I bought a 5-lb and two 2 1/2-lb weights. When using the 25x100 binocular, all the weights are required for a total of 10 pounds. When mounting the 15x70 binocular with Pentax adapter, I use a single 5# weight.
Before I get to the first pictures, a few words about the mechanics of the mount. It has four degrees of motion. The Azimuth bearing is teflon and is smooth as butter - no adjustment was needed. It had just the right tension on arrival. All of the other contact points utilize slick plastic washers and either locknuts or tightening knobs. The binocular cradle has an integrated threaded adapter for standard vertical post mounts commonly found on giant binoculars. The cradle has been steel reinforced and has a built-in handle to facilitate panning. A tension knob controls the tightness of the altitude pivot. The binoculars can be moved up or down or side to side independently of the parallelogram. Using the 70mm binocular, tension is easily established and the mount is smooth as butter with an incredible lack of vibration.
How did the mount do with the extra bulk of the 25x100 giant Skymaster? Very well. Once pointed, the binocular stays, granted, one must tighten the tension knob on the cradle-altitude pivot REALLY TIGHT when using the 10-pound 25x100 binocular. Leaving this knob less than TIGHT will result in the binocular slowly sinking under it's own weight until it reaches balance. I also had to remove the plastic washer on the cradle side of the pivot, to get the tightness required. This was not necessary when using a smaller binocular like the 3-pound 15x70. Roy had pointed this out to me well in advance, so it was no surprise. Removal of this washer is not a big deal and I keep it in my goodie bag now, along with the baggy of extra spare parts Roy sent (washers, nuts, etc).
With a minimal of fiddling with the tension knobs (there are a total of three on the mount), the movement becomes very fluid and positive, which just the expected resistance. This mount is NOT bouncy or wiggly. Again Roy exceeded my expectations with a solid piece of wooden engineering. Well done.
It's dark outside right now, but a solid deck of clouds utterly blocks out the sky, so I cannot give this mount first light yet. But initial impressions are very encouraging and I am anxious to start observing with it. A further report and a review of the mount will be forth-coming.
Now a couple of quick pictures of the mount. I could not reduce them to the 60k limit, so I linked them from my own server.
All of these pictures show the 15x70 Skymaster mounted on the cradle with a Pentax adapter. More pics of the 25x100 to come later.
In my opinion, the pics do not do this mount justice. The wood is beautiful and Roy did a masterful job of finishing it. Future pics for the review will be better than these quickies...
Pic 1, the entire rig.
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount1.jpg
Pic 2, close-up of the mounting cradle and pivots.
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount2.jpg
Pic 3, close-up of the tripod mounting plate
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount3.jpg
...
More to come later as I further evaluate this mount...
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
Edited by Glassthrower (02/24/06 09:41 PM)
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11920
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Congratulations to both you and Astrowood, GT! That's quite a work of art!
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astrosaur
member
Reged: 06/30/05
Posts: 39
Loc: San Jose Ca
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That is an exceptionally beautiful and functional mount, congratulations! I like that red-dot finder also,
I've found myself wishing for the very same thing occasionally.
How does it mount on the tripod? Via those two knobs on the base?
AS
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DenisY
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/10/04
Posts: 2048
Loc: Canada / Montréal
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Mike congrats on a fine mount, i am sure you will find it convenient to use. And i agree with Joad, that's really a work of art!
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Denis
I wonder how would the world be different if
Einstein had never lived?
Visit my web site at...
My Astronomical Logbook
Check out
My Astronomical Gear
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ngc6475
Fearless Spectator
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 4790
Loc: Northern Sierra Foothills
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Wow, that's more than a mount; it's furniture! Tht's beautiful! Congratulations
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Walter
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
-Mark Twain
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Quote:
How does it mount on the tripod? Via those two knobs on the base?
Yes, there is a third knob that is hidden behind the center-post of the mount. The mount is attached to the tripod via the mounting plate and the 3 tension knobs. The mount is held to the plate via a steel support and a series of 4 carriage bolts.
I am still amazed by the lack of vibration in this mount. Now if only the skies would clear!
MIkeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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johnno
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 807
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Hi Mike,
That is indeed a fine mount,and seems very well made.
Your final thoughts,after testing,will be very interesting to many of us,I am sure.
All the best Regards.
John
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Hello all -
I just got an email from Roy Hess informing me that I had the beams on the parallelogram inverted. The long beam should be on the bottom, and the short beam on top.
So, I fixed the mistake and now the mount is in proper order. Roy's instructions were very clear, and it was my fault for being neo-dyslexic. I am prone to such mistakes.
More pics to come later...
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10155
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Mike ,
Congratulations on your latest acquisition !
That looks like nice wood .
I had a brief flirtation with WOODEN binocular supporting about a year ago , when trying to justify having spent what I did in the purchase , assembly and erection of a glorified wooden shed which came with the rather grander title of " summer house " .
Having carefully dismantled a glass and aluminium greenhouse and had a new base built on which to stand the proposed summer house , it was only after delivery of the shed that I discovered I couldn't put it where the greenhouse once stood , due to planning permission being required .
A quick study of the latest regulations informed me that do so would fail on FOUR counts , namely on it being too close to a public footpath , too close to a public highway , too far from the house in a certain direction and too TALL to erected within the proposed distance of the house boundary .
Not to be left without a shed , I then made the ridiculous decision to erect it in the only possible place it COULD go , without contravening any regulations , which is immediately behind the house with the doors facing NORTH EAST -- hardly the IDEAL direction for a SUMMER HOUSE !
Anyway , in a valiant attempt to be seen to be making SOME use of the construction ( to justify having spent enough on the project to have had a family holiday or bought a Leica Ultravid instead ) I started placing my binoculars on the pitched roof of the shed ( which just happens to be at a perfect height for me ) rather than bother attaching them to a tripod .
The views WERE ROCK steady , but slightly boring by virtue of the shed not having alt - az , EQ or GO TO mechanisms built into it .
The thought also occured to me , that I could use it as a kind of " observatory " , but the overhang of the porch is so far reaching that the underside of it is all I can see from within the shed , and even that is too close to get into clear focus with any of the binoculars I have .
I then considered purchasing one of these highly regarded Butterfly binoculars , specifically with which to view the underside of the porch roof , but then realised I could get a perfectly good close view of it by simply standing under it .
Wishing you a better return for your outlay with YOUR wood !
Regards , Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Thanks for the positive feedback folks. I took some more pictures, this time with the 25x100mm Skymaster.
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount4.jpg
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount5.jpg
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount6.jpg
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount7.jpg
Still nothing but clouds and rain. According to the local weatherman and the CSC, the next clear skies should be monday night. Then I will put this mount through it's paces.
I gotta admit though, it makes a nice centerpiece for my computer room.....but it will look much better outside under dark skies.
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
I just got an email from Roy Hess informing me that I had the beams on the parallelogram inverted. The long beam should be on the bottom, and the short beam on top.
Interesting! In almost every Pgram mount I know of, the long beam is on the top.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1502
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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I think the benefit of the weights and longer booms on the bottom is a lower CoG. More stable I would think and less stress on the center post. However the booms can limit the upward travel of the mount when they hit the tripod or mount's base.
Roy should have a solution for the bracket slipping very soon. 
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Craig Simmons
Oberwerk 8x56, 20x90
Nikon Action IV 10x50
Barska 15x70
Galileo 20x60
Stellarvue 15x63, 20x85
Orion XT10 pre-Classic
Antares 10
Stellarvue AT1010
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Craig - Re: the slippage problem
I introduced a small lock washer between the tightening knob and the cradle arm, and the bino side of the pivot. This grabs the wood of the cradle arm and allows the bino to hold it's position in the vertical better. But, when attempting to point the big 25x100 straight up to the zenith, the weight of the bino inevitably makes the cradle slip back down until balance is achieved. As of now, this balance point is about 70-degrees upward, then the slippage stops.
Although, having said all of that, I DID get to use the mount under clear skies with the 15x70 Skymaster attached. I was very impressed. This mount is over-engineered for a 3# 70mm bino, and the movement was fluid. Dampening time after movement is 1 second or less, almost instantaenous! I haven't had that much fun with the 15x70 in a loooong time. Panning around Orion and Canis Major was a breeze, and now after a short session with the parallelogram, I am spoiled. Now my trusty old Tiffen camer tripod will be collecting dust in the corner...
Quote:
Roy should have a solution for the bracket slipping very soon.
I am confident of that was well. This slippage from the ~70 degree to zenith positioning is only a minor speedbump on the road to perfecting this mount.
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1502
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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What the bracket needs is to have the pivot hole moved to the big bino's vertical Center of Gravity (GoG) or slightly below it considering the extra weight of the handle and bracket below the bino. The bracket would need very little clamping to hold the binos steady. Looks like a redesign or relocation of the handle and bracket is needed to accomplish that. As you've found out the 15x70 with the normal mounting bracket moves the binos vertical CoG closer to the pivot bolt allowing smoother motion. The lighter bino weight helps too of course. The wood bracket needs to have two pivot bolt holes. One for small binos using a normal mounting bracket and the other for center post mounted binos. An easy change to make in the design.
Another solution (probably easier) would be to add a taller spacer under the big binos.
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Craig Simmons
Oberwerk 8x56, 20x90
Nikon Action IV 10x50
Barska 15x70
Galileo 20x60
Stellarvue 15x63, 20x85
Orion XT10 pre-Classic
Antares 10
Stellarvue AT1010
Edited by Craig Simmons (02/27/06 03:08 PM)
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
What the bracket needs is to have the pivot hole moved to the big bino's vertical Center of Gravity (GoG) or slightly below it considering the extra weight of the handle and bracket below the bino.
Agreed. It looks like the binocular COV is way off from the centerline of the altitude pivot. This places the binocular cradle in cantilever tension when the binocular is pointed at high altitude. There should be no cantilever at all.
Quote:
Another solution (probably easier) would be to add a taller spacer under the big binos.
That would add eccentric cantilever load on the binocular platform. That choice, while seemingly workable to prevent slippage, would be a move in the wrong direction. Actually the lockwasher stops slippage but fits this same condition.
The correct way to solve that problem is either reduce the drop distance to the platform to bring the binocular COV up closer to the pivot or add holes and allow adjustablity at the pivot tension lock.
Unfortunately, I see based on this photo
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount6.jpg
there is not enough room to have the pivot lined up with the center of gravity unless the binocular platform is made wider.
edz
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Rick M
member
Reged: 01/14/05
Posts: 70
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA
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The center of gravity problem can most easily be solved by incleasing the height of your L bracket so it is in line with the pivot point. My parallelogram photos can be seen at http://www.astro-tom.com/projects/binocular_mount.htm
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Rick M
Leica 7x42 BA
Leica 8x20 BCA
Leica 10x30 BA
Pentax PCF III 7x50
William Optics 7x50ED
Fujinon 10x70
Miyauchi NBA-71 Saturn II
Garrett Optical 20x110 Signature
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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After the reading Craig's post about the binocular vertical center of gravity, I decided to tinker. Now after reading EdZ input, I definitely think this is the issue.
So, to lose some weight from the cradle, I removed the hardwood handle and the bolts/nuts that secure it. This didn't appear to help much, but the bino does seem to stay pointed a bit higher than before. When removing this handle, I noticed that there is enough room to drill another hole, further up the cradle and closer to the pivot, but like EdZ said, there is not MUCH more room. Perhaps another 3/4 inch before the body of the binocular would intefere with the tightening knob. Would such a slight improvement (drilling another hole slightly higher than the current one) produce any noticeable result?
These are the two latest pictures of the mount I just took. Both are an attempt to show the maximum altitude possible before slippage starts. If moved perpendicular to the ground (zenith), the binos will slip until they reach this position, then stop.
...???....I'm boggled.
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount10.jpg
http://www.thought-criminal.com/mount11.jpg
Thanks for the helpful input folks...
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Rick -
I checked out the pics you linked. I had seen your mount some time back while I was researching p-mounts. I have Astro-Tom bookmarked, just for that mount. I didn't know it was a fellow CN'er. Nice looking mount by the way.
I'm on a really SLOW dialup, so the pictures timed out on me before all of them could load. The first two did load, and it showed me what you were referring to. The weight of the binocular needs to be higher up and closer to the pivot point. Ideally, I guess the binocular should be on the same level as the pivot.
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Well increasing the height of the L bracket, as I mentioned above
adds eccentric cantilever load on the binocular platform. That choice, while seemingly workable to prevent slippage, would be a move in the wrong direction.
Considering there is not enough room to have the pivot lined up with the center of gravity unless the binocular platform is made wider, it seems what is needed to fix this design problem is lengthen the bottom platform to move the L bracket hole further away from the pivot. Then additional pivot holes can be drilled and the wingnut won't hit the binocular and it would allow adjusting the binocular COV to any binocular. This actually is the design feature built into the previous generation of UA Unimounts.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14693
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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EdZ,
I'm sure Roy will be reading this thread, so I am interested to hear his input on this. He has sent photos to me of his Antares 22x100 pointing to the zenith and it stays, using a minor modification that involves washers. I don't recall exactly what he did, I'll have to check again. But it was something I cannot reproduce here, because I think it involved a teflon washer, which I do not have on hand.
As for raising the height of the L-bracket, I must agree that I don't particularly like the sound/look of that - at least not with a 10# 100mm binocular attached. That is placing a lot of load on a single carriage bolt (ultimately) ...
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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