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miniventures
Something Else
Reged: 09/13/03
Posts: 11054
Loc: Powell Butte, Central Oregon
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 we're here to please, Carol 
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LarryC
Volunteer
http://www.sunrivernaturecenter.org
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YankeeJeff
sage
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 439
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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Pardon my ignorance (I'm still a newbie ). If I properly place the laminated pdf circle [az] at the base and purchase a digital 'smart tool' for the tube inclination (alt), is it then a simple matter of moving to the object's alt/az position as indicated by software? [I have the "2sky" for the Palm TX]
If so, my follow-up silly question is:
How do I place the circle on the base? (e.g. where is 0, where is 180) - also what glue, etc. is best?
Lastly, I have a Zhumell 10" on the way - if anyone has tried this successfully on that particular scope, I'd love to hear some of your suggestions.
Thanks to all who have contributed to this - what an awesome collection of brains in this community! 
Edited by YankeeJeff (08/16/06 09:47 PM)
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stefsaber
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/24/06
Posts: 4459
Loc: Rainy Florida
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I was planning on going by Kinko's tomorrow to run off that pdf file, one note that someone mentioned regarding that. Since I have the 10" Zhumell (Great scope btw), you have to get Kinko's to enlarge the 19" version of that chart by 115% to match the diameter of a 10" Zhumell. I was trying to figure out the positioning as well, I think I will have 0 degrees at the front of the tube, although I'm not sure that will work 
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-Stefan
"It’s not the fall that kills you; it’s the sudden stop at the end." -Douglas Adams
Current Scopes: "Gator" William Optics 66SD---Black Swan William Optics Megrez 80 II ED Triplet---Zhumell 10" Dob
-Sirius Mount---Canon Rebel XT-
Past Scopes: ETX 90---Vixen ED80Sf
Fort Myers, FL
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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I placed "0" on the left side of scope where I sit. I then center Polaris, & move my needle to "0". Then with your PC program (make sure time & location are accurate!), look up a target, get the co-ordinates. Set these on your inclinometer (altitude scale), & azimuth scale. That's all there is to it! Go to the next target, repeat, etc. I just used double-stick tape.
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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YankeeJeff
sage
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 439
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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Thanks very much Carol! 
My telescope arrives today! 
I also pick up my laminated circle today. I may decide to crudely test it out without actually sticking anything on. With my luck I'll royally mess things up if I do. I'd rather go through a little extra work in dissassembling the scope and sticking it on later.
This is so cool - that's so much!!
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"When I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and stars that you set in place...What are humans that you are mindful of them, mere mortals that you care for them?" (Psalm 8:3,4)
24Pan, 17T4, 13T6, 11T6, 9BTMB, 8TVpl, 7T6, 6, 5BTMBs
Z10"Dob, Paracorr, 2xBrlw, Telrad, RACI,°Circles, ⌒Spider
Floyd Bennett: 
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pappydc
journeyman
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Indiana
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I'm not feeling real smart right now...I've added the circle to my Orion 8" dob and have been following all the posts on this topic...
I point the scope to magnetic north using a compass. (I can't see Polaris unless I take the scope to the front yard.) I place the movable pointer on 0/0. I then confirmed by looking at Jupiter and fine tuning the azimuth setting based on the data from Pocket Stars on my PDA. I would then swing the scope left to Arcturus (for example)and the scope would be off again.
Question: 1. Can the scope be accurate by calibrating to 2 known points? I've been using Vega-Arcturus-Jupiter because I can easily see them from my location.
2. The declination for my area is 4 degrees west...It just seems like I'm missing something fundamental here...
Any suggestions for a newby?
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Orion XT8
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kestrel0222
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2337
Loc: Milford, Michigan
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Pappydc, Welcome to Cloudy Nights!
Yes, you can calibrate by using a couple of know objects, just make sure that the Alt/Az coordinates and the exact time (along with your current locations) are accurate. I do this all the time, I do not always use Polaris to align to. Sometimes I will align to Anteres in the south (if I do not have a view of Polaris). Also, make sure that your base is level. I hope this helps.
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Tom
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 13899
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Make sure your PDA has the time set accurately... remember, Alt/Az coordinates are constantly changing as time marches on.
Also, magnetic declination changes over time as well. Is 4° still the right amount for you? You can verify here.
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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rnabholz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Iowa
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Pappy,
Are you using an inclinometer or an altitude scale?
If you are using a scale, a level base is critical, any deviation can easily put the object out of your narrow field of view.
You say that you are "off", have you noticed which axis seems to be wrong. That is, are you correct in azimuth but not altitude or vice versa?
I have not used pocket stars, but as mentioned, be sure you have set things properly with regard to time and observing location.
Another thing to check is that the display is updated and providing current information- On TheSky Pocket software that I use, the frequency of updates of the display is user configurable. Make sure that your software is updating frequently and that when you seek the coordinates for setting the circles that it has recently updated. A few minutes error can put the target out of the 1 or 2 degree field of view.
You can set the systems calibration on any object, I usually use the first visible object, I seldom wait for Polaris to become visible.
These systems work, we can get you going I am sure.
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Rod Nabholz
Home Built Astronomy Projects
Wild Bird Photography
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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 Yes we can!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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pappydc
journeyman
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Indiana
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Wow, You folks are great! Ok, so far I've checked to make sure my PocketStar PDA software is correct. I verified/compared data to the Starry Night software I received with the scope. All Ok. I bought an analog inclinometer from Sears. Elevation seems to be OK.
Tonight I will level the base as it sits on my back deck. Last night, I would target Jupiter and set the azimuth pointer to the current coordinates. Then I would swing over to either Antares or Arcturus and would be off maybe 5 degrees or so but not bad. But then when I would go up to Vega or try and target M13 I would be off even more in the azimuth. The elevation was usually right on using the inclinometer.
I'm trying to visualize how being off level would mess up the system. It would seem that the closer to zenith (higher in the sky) you were the greater the effect "level" would have on accuracy...Am I correct?
Weather permitting, I'll be out tonight! BTW, M13 did look pretty cool. Even my oldest (17yrs) thought it was neat.
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Orion XT8
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rnabholz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Iowa
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Pappy,
The degree to which having a level base is important with regard to those using an altitude scale - if the base dips or rises as it is rotated, the altitude scale cannot possibly reflect an accurate reading.
Using an inclinometer corrects for that because it is reading the altitude of the tube independent of the base - the base could be completely unlevel and the inclinometer will still reflect a true reading.
I am wondering why you are having a problem in azimuth - 5 degrees is a pretty large error for this kind of system. Does your software have a button or menu selection to refresh or update the screen? As I mentioned before, this confounded me until I realized that I was looking at coordinates that were outdated. Now, I simply refresh the screen before each search to insure that I have the best data available.
A five degree error could be caused by as little as a 20 minute or so difference between real time and the software's effective time, so if you paused to study Jupiter for that long, that would explain it. The fact that the error kept getting worse suggests that this might be the issue as well.
See if your software has a setting to refresh automatically, if so, set it to do so, and if the option is offered, ask it to update every minute or so.
Keep us up to date with the trials.
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Rod Nabholz
Home Built Astronomy Projects
Wild Bird Photography
Edited by rnabholz (08/17/06 05:25 PM)
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stefsaber
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/24/06
Posts: 4459
Loc: Rainy Florida
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Wait, the arrow is supposed to be adjustable? That might explain a few things...
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-Stefan
"It’s not the fall that kills you; it’s the sudden stop at the end." -Douglas Adams
Current Scopes: "Gator" William Optics 66SD---Black Swan William Optics Megrez 80 II ED Triplet---Zhumell 10" Dob
-Sirius Mount---Canon Rebel XT-
Past Scopes: ETX 90---Vixen ED80Sf
Fort Myers, FL
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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If you are referring to the "arrow" or pointer on the base degree circles, Yes, it is movable. Go to the head of this "Reflectors" forum, under my Degree Circles, go about 1/2 down the posts, & it is discussed how I put about a 12" metal strip on the lower base, then glued my pointer to a small magnet. This allows me to set it to "0", when I center Polaris. Hope this helps, if not, post back! 
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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pappydc
journeyman
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Indiana
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To All,
Problem Solved!! I'm embarassed to admit it, but...
I was mixed up on stars... 
Got out on the back deck early tonight, leveled the base, only off a 1/4" or so. Pointed at magnetic north, put my movable pointer on 0/0. Wait for Jupiter. Target Jupiter, match the coordinates with what is in PocketStars.(PocketStars set to constantly update data- pretty cool) Swing up and target Vega, coordinates match up. Good. Sears Craftsman $10 inclinometer/level working great. Even calibrated the elevation scale stuck on the side. It looks good too. Swing back to Jupiter, still good.
Now I go to Arcturus only I finally figure out it isn't Arcturus. Arcturus should be the other direction from Jupiter. I stare in amazement at my mistake.  No wonder my checks were messed up.
OK, go to coordinates for Antares..Yep, there it is...And now a big surprise. I dial in M13 and, holy cow, it jumped out of the eyepiece. I think I was looking at M29 last night. This was awesome!
Thanks for all the help and patience. Maybe some other newbie will read this and not make the same mistake. I was telling myself, c'mon this really isn't rocket science. I still want to get much, much better at learning the skies. That's why I bought the XT8. Now I can have the best of both worlds!
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Orion XT8
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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Believe me, we all make errors when trying to figure something out! The best part is when we get it right, & things (or objects) fall into place. Congratulations, & now, your fun is just beginning. It's hard to believe something so simple works so well! Enjoy
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 13899
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Misidentified a star!  I can't imagine doing such a thing. 
Happens to pretty much all of us at some point. Might not even be the last time you do it.
Glad you got it figured out and the rings are doing the trick for you.
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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kestrel0222
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2337
Loc: Milford, Michigan
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Great to see you got it figured out, we ALL do things like that, I know I have. Now, the fun begins!!!!!!!
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Tom
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rnabholz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Iowa
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Glad to hear things are working for you, as others have said, you aren't the first to get confused out there.
Now you can enjoy the system. This kind of set up is remarkably effective for a very low investment.
Be sure and take a moment after you have dialed up an object to view the "neighborhood" naked eye. Doing that can be very helpful in teaching you the sky.
Good luck and clear skies
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Rod Nabholz
Home Built Astronomy Projects
Wild Bird Photography
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cvedeler
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/20/05
Posts: 1514
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
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OK, folks. I just looked through this tread and want to do it with my Lightbridge too. Where can I get this .pdf file? Does Kinkos print it on something waterproof?
Thanks in advance!
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Chris Vedeler
Astro-Physics 160EDF
Astro-Physics 900GTO
Orion 80mm Guidescope
Canon EOS XT modified with Baader filter by Hap Griffin
Meade DSI Pro / Philips SPC900NC webcam
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www.aznightsky.com
Scottsdale, AZ
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