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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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I had my degree circles laminated at Staples; charged something like $2 to have both sides done.
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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YankeeJeff
sage
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 439
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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I'd really, really like to do this to my Zhumell. But before I do anything to my scope I'd like to be able to visualize how this works in detail. I'm still vague on the details. 
First, I imagine placing the large degree circle on the top board of the base(the one that swivels) with 0 toward the front of the scope. Second, I can imagine centering Polaris or using a compass to 'set' to azimuth zero(0).
Here's the part I can't 'see'... If I attempt to turn the scope to an azimuth degree (any number) the 0 will move along with me.
The question is how the heck do I mark the spot where the desired number 'was' before I started turning the scope toward it? I feel like that clown that tries to pick up his hat but keeps kicking it right before he picks it up. 
I could see if a place a metal strip around the entire bottom base and placing a magnet at the desired azimuth prior to turning but (from what I've read here) I don't have to place the metal around the entire base. How can that be? Won't some possible degrees be left out?   I would be tons grateful if I can get this to work on my scope. 
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"When I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and stars that you set in place...What are humans that you are mindful of them, mere mortals that you care for them?" (Psalm 8:3,4)
24Pan, 17T4, 13T6, 11T6, 9BTMB, 8TVpl, 7T6, 6, 5BTMBs
Z10"Dob, Paracorr, 2xBrlw, Telrad, RACI,°Circles, ⌒Spider
Floyd Bennett: 
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rnabholz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Iowa
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Jeff,
Let's see if I can shed some light on this for you.
You are correct, following the thread originator's set up, the scale goes on your baseboard - or said another way the bottom of the rocker.
You may place zero anywhere you would like, it could be centered under the scope, or as Carol has it, 90 degrees from the tube on the focuser side. IT IS NOT important that the scale follow the true azimuth direction, ONLY that the pointer indicate the true azimuth.
You now take the short 6 to 12" band of steel strapping and attach that to the side of the ground board - Not the side of the baseboard - the side of the ground board. It stays stationary when you turn the scope.
When you set up the scope, you take care to point the tube roughly north, and make sure the orientation of your ground board is such that the strapping is roughly centered on Zero.
Now using a known object - Polaris if you like, but I usually use the first visible known object, you center it in your field of view, then adjust the magnetic pointer (which should be roughly on the azimuth of your known object) to match precisely by sliding it along the steel strapping.
You are then set and ready to go. The pointer is set to match the known object, so now as you turn the tube and rocker to the next desired azimuth it will be correct relative to the last azimuth because the ground board is stationary.
Does that help?
Let me know if not and I can try again.
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Rod Nabholz
Home Built Astronomy Projects
Wild Bird Photography
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stefsaber
Post Laureate
Reged: 06/24/06
Posts: 4459
Loc: Rainy Florida
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Could you post a picture of this metal strap, it seems to be the only concept I have trouble visualizing at the moment? 
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-Stefan
"It’s not the fall that kills you; it’s the sudden stop at the end." -Douglas Adams
Current Scopes: "Gator" William Optics 66SD---Black Swan William Optics Megrez 80 II ED Triplet---Zhumell 10" Dob
-Sirius Mount---Canon Rebel XT-
Past Scopes: ETX 90---Vixen ED80Sf
Fort Myers, FL
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YankeeJeff
sage
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 439
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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Thanks much Rod! I think I get it now. The metal goes only about 6" to 12" around the stationary ground board because when you set it up, your already (roughly) in the general area [North]. You then place the magnet at ~zero (Polaris) or the azimuth of your object and move the scope from there.
I guess the only reason for me to use more metal around the ground board (~half-way around) is because my window, and therefore most of my viewing, is facing East. So lets say I center a star at about Azimuth 70 out my window. I'll then place the magnet at about 290/70 on the degree scale to mark zero. I can also mark the 70 and do the math I guess.
Before I put on the metal and magnet I'll test using a thin sticky index tab to mark zero. Maybe staples or someone sells the glow-in-the-dark version.
Another question... If a digital inclinometer can be used for altitude, can a digital compass work for the azimuth? 
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"When I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and stars that you set in place...What are humans that you are mindful of them, mere mortals that you care for them?" (Psalm 8:3,4)
24Pan, 17T4, 13T6, 11T6, 9BTMB, 8TVpl, 7T6, 6, 5BTMBs
Z10"Dob, Paracorr, 2xBrlw, Telrad, RACI,°Circles, ⌒Spider
Floyd Bennett:
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rnabholz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Iowa
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I'll have to defer, my set up is a little different than what is described here, so I can't get you a pic.
Maybe Carol or someone else on the board can pitch in.
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Rod Nabholz
Home Built Astronomy Projects
Wild Bird Photography
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rnabholz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Iowa
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Jeff,
Glad that helped.
Regarding the Digital Compass instead of a scale. I looked into digital compass's and found that there weren't any out there at a reasonable price that would provide enough resolution. Many of the consumer products don't offer more that 5 degrees accuracy, getting to a degree or better seemed to be price prohibitive.
For about 20 bucks you can get the azimuth scale printed and laminated and have the really good resolution that a 20" diameter scale can offer, with no batteries, settings or electonic bugs to worry about. A better solution I think.
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Rod Nabholz
Home Built Astronomy Projects
Wild Bird Photography
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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If you will go to the head of this forum "reflectors" & click on "DEGREE CIRCLES" - (all), you will see pictures of my setup. I will take a picture of the metal strip tomorrow & post it; it simply is about 12" long, screwed into the bottom board of the base. Doesn't really matter where the metal strip is, because you rotate the upper base with the degree circles. I simply center Polaris, slide the magnet needle (On bottom base board) to "0" on the degree circle, then additional targets will be on course. I use a PDA with pocket stars to get the coordinates, "dial" them into the degree circles, & there is the target!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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Quote:
Thanks much Rod! I think I get it now. The metal goes only about 6" to 12" around the stationary ground board because when you set it up, your already (roughly) in the general area [North]. You then place the magnet at ~zero (Polaris) or the azimuth of your object and move the scope from there.
I guess the only reason for me to use more metal around the ground board (~half-way around) is because my window, and therefore most of my viewing, is facing East. So lets say I center a star at about Azimuth 70 out my window. I'll then place the magnet at about 290/70 on the degree scale to mark zero. I can also mark the 70 and do the math I guess.[END OF QUOTE]
Hi NY:
you mention a star at about 70 degrees, (290/70 degrees). I think you mean 70 degrees Altitude, & 290 degrees Azimuth; then placing the "marker" at about 290/70 degrees to mark "0". If you have the exact coordinates for the GIVEN TIME viewing, you could find that target, then set the degree circles to agree. Using "about" degrees will only frustrate you, the coordinates must be exact, or each target will then reflect the error of the first target. The only time you would set the Azimuth to "0", is if you start by centering Polaris. It sounds confusing, but actually when you see it in action, it's very effective & simple. I cannot stress enough though, that you must be exact with the coordinates, in order to make the system accurate. Hope this doesn't scare you too badly, just keep asking questions, so we can walk you thru it; it's worth it! 
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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YankeeJeff
sage
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 439
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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Hi Carol - thanks for responding. I've seen your setup (it looks awesome BTW). When I wrote 290/70 I was describing the two numbers I see marked on the degree circle from the PDF file. They were conveniently drawn going in two directions. I guess I should have said 290.
In other words if, hypothetically, I centered a star at exactly 70 degrees azimuth (for that exact time) - and I had initially placed (glued) the 0 on the base to be in the front of my scope - then when I centered the star, zero azimuth would actually be found 70 degrees to the left at 290. That is where I would put a magnet or whatever to ID the 0.
At first, I didn't know why the magnet strip was necessary, but I can see that it may be needed to tweak the azimuth a bit w/o moving the bottom base again. I very much appreciate this thread - thanks! I will try this very soon and keep you posted. The weather here is going to stink for the next couple of days but I'll also have some time to make the mods to the scope. Thanks again.
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"When I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and stars that you set in place...What are humans that you are mindful of them, mere mortals that you care for them?" (Psalm 8:3,4)
24Pan, 17T4, 13T6, 11T6, 9BTMB, 8TVpl, 7T6, 6, 5BTMBs
Z10"Dob, Paracorr, 2xBrlw, Telrad, RACI,°Circles, ⌒Spider
Floyd Bennett:
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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If I'm not mistaken, if you center a star at 70 degrees Azimuth, then you would put the arrow at 70 degrees on the base, rather than zero. I put it at zero, because I always use Polaris to begin with. Also, I have zero on the left side of my scope for convenience, & it works just as well.
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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rnabholz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 764
Loc: Iowa
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Jeff,
Just by way of clarification.
If your physical set up means your primary viewing is to the East - the set up is the same.
Let's say for the sake of this example that you placed 0 directly under the front of the tube. When you set the scope down next to the window, you would take care point the tube approximately north and then make sure that the ground board's metal strip is roughly centered under the 0 position. For now place the pointer on the 0 position.
Now as soon as the conditions permit and offer you a known target to the east, you center the object in your field of view. Let's say that that your object - according to your computer generated azimuth coordinates - is at 97 degrees. If you look down at your pointer you should see that it is reading somewhere close to 97 degrees. You confirm that the object is still centered and then reach down and slide the pointer until it reads precisely 97 degrees and you are ready to go.
Remember the pointer is stationary - when you turn the tube, the scale is turning with it, but the pointer attached to the ground board doesn't move - in this example the ponter is still to the north, but the pointer is indicating 97 degrees on the scale.
Now that you have calibrated the pointer, you can go on and dial up the next object WITHOUT moving the pointer. (you may tweak the pointer from time to time during the session to maintain accuracy - but we are talking very small adjustments)
I hope this helps.
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Rod Nabholz
Home Built Astronomy Projects
Wild Bird Photography
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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Rod: Thanks for helping clarify this!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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kestrel0222
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2337
Loc: Milford, Michigan
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Rod,
I couldn't have said any better then that! That is exactly the way that I have been doing it with my scope, it works great!!
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Tom
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YankeeJeff
sage
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 439
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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Thanks folks! I'm happy to announce that I've completed putting on the degree circle and I've got the home depot magnetic protractor for the altitude. I also put small wheels (with brakes) on the ground board. Unfortunately I can't test it tonight because of the foul weather but at least the scope looks great!
FYI - I also got a radio shack digital compass because I'd like one for the car anyway -so in the meantime I'm gonna see how well it does compared to the degree circle.  It's accurate only to 5 degrees so I'm sure it won't compare. When I finally get to test I'll let you know. Thanks again people!
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"When I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and stars that you set in place...What are humans that you are mindful of them, mere mortals that you care for them?" (Psalm 8:3,4)
24Pan, 17T4, 13T6, 11T6, 9BTMB, 8TVpl, 7T6, 6, 5BTMBs
Z10"Dob, Paracorr, 2xBrlw, Telrad, RACI,°Circles, ⌒Spider
Floyd Bennett:
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kwalker
sage
Reged: 08/22/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
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will a palm z22 work with pocket stars?
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Keith
Zhumell 10" dobsonian with $12 "Push-To"
4mm & 9mm BO/TMB Planetary, 13mm Stratus, 17mm Stratus, 32mm Widefield
Orion shorty plus 2x barlow
Catseye Xl Triple Pro Pack
Glatter Laser
Celestron 15x70
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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http://www.nomadelectronics.com/PocketPC/PocketStars/PocketStarsDownload.htm
Keith, here is the website for PocketStars, I don't think it will work with the Palm, however there are several others that will. Several were mentioned in the "Computer" forum here, I believe. The PDA really helps with the "$12 Go-to"! You don't have to keep running inside to the computer for the coordinates & wrecking your night vision.
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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kestrel0222
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2337
Loc: Milford, Michigan
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YankeeJeff,
Let us know how the circles worked for you! I think you'll be amazed how easy they are to use.
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Tom
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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Keith: In the Astronomy/Computer forum, the most mentioned with Palms is Astromist, another is Planetarium. Just google them & see if they are to your liking.
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28576
Loc: montana
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Hey YankeeJeff: Way to go, now enjoy. 
Do let us know how it works for you!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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