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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Regardless of the source, method, or marketing, I always look forward to new large aperture binoculars. I don't care if they are made in Zimbabwe by boys in plaid jackets. I'm more interested in what I SEE through the binocular than what name is affixed to the tube(s).
Do we need more low-quality Chinese big bins? Certainly not, the market is flooded with them.
But, if a person/company with a great reputation is about to start a new venture in big binoculars, I'll be watching intently....even if they are made in China, and even if they don't cost an arm and a leg.... Even more so if they DON'T cost said arm and leg...
Wanting to keep my limbs and own a good big binocular...
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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Rick
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 2573
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Quote:
No one really has first hand information about the supplier that Roland is dealing with. While it looks very much to some like a United or Kunming product he has stated it is a very small Chinese manufacturer. That doesn't sound like Kunming to me.
Yeah, but pontifacting about a business I know nothing about is my "entertainment" when the rainy season comes early 
Looking at the United "factory" pics on their web site does not give the impression that it is a large operation either.
FYI, Kasai Trading in Japan is an importer/wholesaler not a manufacturer. Until recently, they were the WO reseller in Japan. But now apparently they have gone directly to the "source" for many of their products including a lineup of Chinese giant bino's.
I think these bino's might be quite good and slapping the AP brand on them would certainly give them cache. But if I was near the bottom of a 6 year waiting list for an AP scope, I'd be annoyed that RC was devoting time to anything but building more scopes faster.
clear skies,
Rick
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www.japanastro.com
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williamichang
super member
Reged: 02/13/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Saratoga, CA
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When this came up on AstroMart positioned as (quote) "a direct copy of the 15x70 Fujinons", I think I was the only person to poo-poo the idea. So maybe he will sell lots of them 
http://www.astromart.com/forums/viewpost.asp?forum_post_id=415039
Re: Large Budget Bino tests - and question for you
Posted by William Chang on 2/7/2006 10:55 PM
I guess the focusing mechanism precludes the possibility of astigmatism correctors at the EPs? Too bad :-( I was beginning to get really excited reading the comparative/critical review. Ideally, binocs should allow eyeglasses, so I can switch back-and-forth binocs/naked-eye-with-glasses, in order to aim. Otherwise by the time I've removed/flicked away my eyeglasses I will have mentally forgotten exactly where to point the binocs.
Financially, IMO, 1/3 discount over a Fujinon does not really justify a clone/copy. After all, the standard discount for used optics (not AP, obviously) is about 1/3 -- so I may as well buy a second-hand Fujinon. And lose very little if later I had to re-sell the Fujinon, unlike the clone. Sorry for the dissenting opinion.
That said, I'm one of those with a passion for fine optics (or rather, a strong aversion to mediocre optics), regardless of day-to-day practicality. So if these have some unique quality, not directly copied from the Fujinon, I would probably go for it. I'd rather reward originality and risk-taking, than mere inexpensive labor.
How about, interchangeable eyepieces? (I'll give up nitrogen.)
-- William Chang (Saratoga, CA)
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... back to the hobby after one-year hiatus
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10142
Loc: Lancashire UK
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William ,
Your points are well taken , but with regard to the eye - relief / glasses on / glasses off aspect , the Fujinon FMT SX 16 x 70 doesn't exactly EXCEL !
Regards , Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12565
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Looking at the United "factory" pics on their web site does not give the impression that it is a large operation either.
With 6 Kunming Optical factories comprising United Optical, that supply binoculars to many dealers, all around the world, sounds to me like a fairly large operation.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5312
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Quote:
Eh, business is all about cashing in on name recognition! Get a container of binoculars that wholesale for 25$ a pair and turn them around for 350$ each? (In case anyone thinks that this is an unrealistic markup, i'd remind everyone that Jena Zeiss was making binos for 25$US that the West Genman Zeiss company would have priced at 1000$ had they made the sdame thing--and Jena paid more than a couple bucks a day for labor, too.) Anyway, a sucessful binocular division would not be small change for a sole proprietorship outfit--and no one there is getting any younger either. Time to make some hay while the sun shines? It would be a nice cash flow source actually. People will snap them up *just because* of the name--that's typical consumer behavior one sees all the time (ask Harley-Davidson).
People get in business to make money--attaching altruistic motives to business people is a bit silly really--the sucessful ones will diversify into markets with more volume--they'll push the limits of quality vis a vis name reputation in the interest of the bottom line too (or they go out of business  ). That's the real difference between 350$ binoculars and 10,000$ APO refractors--volume. Can't fault business for acting like--a business!
However, a business can be ethical and successful.
Rich
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1516
Loc: Liberal, Kansas
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Quote:
Hi Brocknroller,
What you say may well be true but I don't like the "global marketplace". I certainly don't like it's current form.
I do my best to "vote" with my purchases. YMMV
Rich
Hi Rich,
I don't like it either. I would prefer if I could chose from American-made bins at a variety of price points rather than buying EITHER high-end European and Japanese bins OR low-end Chinese bins (though the latter are improving, the piont of this thread).
I say this not out of nationalism, but because competition from the USA would have expanded the mid-priced bin market a lot sooner, just as it did with automobiles. The Japanese started making economy cars, now they make mid-priced vehicles and upscale ones. This was driven by American consumer demands and competition in these niches from American and European automobile manufacturers.
But the current reality is, the world is becoming polarized into Wal-Marts and Wegmans. While Wegmans (Zeiss, et al) will retain their niche, when the Chinese start making enough income to actually BUY the products they make, the global marketplace will have ONE BILLION new consumers, and Asia, not America, will be driving consumer trends. Like it or lump it, that's the future.
I advocated "voting" with one's optics purchases on another thread, and I think amateur astronomers have, which is a chief reason we're seeing an improvement in Chinese optics, and why also, upscale companies like Carl Zeiss have responded to consumer's (and Steve Ingraham's) demands for even finer, fine optics. It today's global marketplace, no company can afford to lose customers, particularly niche marketers.
I remember about a decade ago, "BUY AMERICAN" was a popular bumper sticker. At the time I wrote a newspaper column called "Brave New World", and in one column I wrote about how GM cars had 40% foreign-made parts and that a good percentage of their cars were assembled in Canada and Mexico. That blew some minds in rural America.
Btw, Zeiss recently brokered a deal with Jabil Circuit to develop optical modules as part of a joint venture. Jabil has facilities in the Americas, Europe, and ASIA.
http://www.jabil.com/Zeiss.asp
Did I just hear some minds blow? :-)
Brock
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photonovore
Moonatic
Reged: 12/24/04
Posts: 2472
Loc: tacoma wa
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Quote:
Quote:
Is there anyone in the United States that still makes binoculars, including the optics, here?
Clear skies, Alan
Last year Bill C. bet that the group that no one could come up with a U.S. company that made binoculars in-house. He has yet to have to pay.
Well, he can ask me where to send his check because I can name two US owned and operated companies that manufacture binoculars in-house in the USA:
1) SeeCoast Manufacturing Co, Inc. has been manufacturing binoculars in their Alabama plants continuously since 1960--and are to this day. (OK, so these are pedestal mounted public viewing binoculars--but they are still binoculars!  )
Ok, so if you thought i stretched the implied definition of "binoculars" on the first one, here's an entry that's straight-up legit:
2) Leupold and Stevens, Inc., who manufactures their "Golden Ring" line of binoculars in-house in their plant in Beaverton, Oregon. 8x42, 10x42, 8x32 and 10x32 models; retail for over 1000$. Still a family owned company (not some mega corps subsidiary) this is about as "American Made" as it could get.
So how much does Bill owe me?? 
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Mardi
4" achromat, ETX-70.
Whitepeak Lunar Observatory Website
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ngc6475
Fearless Spectator
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 4790
Loc: Northern Sierra Foothills
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Does Leupold produce its own optics? I somehow got the notion they imported the optical components from Japan and proceeded from there. I could easily be wrong, however...
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Walter
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
-Mark Twain
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1267
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Hello all,
I have read all of this thread with the utmost of interest.
A thought came to me--doesn't often happen, tho.
What if we take away the brand name, the mfg. co. in China, and most of the nomenclature. How do we do this. I have no idea; perhaps by enough facilities willing to loan enough samples for testing. To members of the CN Forum?
So we have an independent council, a panel who rules on a number of binoculars in a CERTAIN catagory. This means power versus objective diameter IMO.
This could possibly put to rest what binocular came from whom, what quality, what quantity, compared to what, ad infinitum.
Can we ever come to a definitive conclusion? If we like a binocular, having no knowledge of its design and so forth, can we ENJOY it?
I believe we need to evaluate our personal experiences rather than: where, who, how much, compared to.....
Am I way off track here? I felt that it was time to express what it is I am thinking. Just tell me to shut up if this is way too off topic.
Anyways, best regards,
Dave.
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5312
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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"Can we ever come to a definitive conclusion? If we like a binocular, having no knowledge of its design and so forth, can we ENJOY it?"
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No. Not in my case.
Rich
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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A given bino could have hamsters inside and require periodic filling with cream cheese and I would not care, IF the views were excellent.
My interests do not reside in the realm of HOW the optics work, just as long as they do work.
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12565
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
2) Leupold and Stevens, Inc., who manufactures their "Golden Ring" line of binoculars in-house in their plant in Beaverton, Oregon. 8x42, 10x42, 8x32 and 10x32 models; retail for over 1000$. Still a family owned company (not some mega corps subsidiary) this is about as "American Made" as it could get.
Hi Mardi,
this is the most common of answers that we get in reply to this question. but no one as yet has been able to provide any proof that Leupold manufactures or even grinds their own glass. If I recall correctly, there is an on-line tour of the factory, but it doesn't seem to show any lens grinding equipment.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12565
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
2) Leupold and Stevens, Inc., who manufactures their "Golden Ring" line of binoculars in-house in their plant in Beaverton, Oregon. 8x42, 10x42, 8x32 and 10x32 models; retail for over 1000$. Still a family owned company (not some mega corps subsidiary) this is about as "American Made" as it could get.
Hi Mardi,
this is the most common of answers that we get in reply to this question. but no one as yet has been able to provide any proof that Leupold manufactures or even grinds or polishes their own glass. If I recall correctly, there is an on-line tour of the factory, but it doesn't seem to show any lens grinding or polishing equipment. If that's the case, then they qualify only as an assembly plant.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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MIKADO
member
Reged: 03/21/06
Posts: 52
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In short the question is not to know where these binoculars are manufactured, but so Astro-Physics by putting its name engages at it by a serious schedule of conditions provided to the Chinese manufacturer and strict controls before the marketing, to provide a material of quality at the mechanical and optical level.
I know in Europe a company which imports material of China and which engages on quality of the market products by sticking its name to it. Another time it did coming it for products from Japan (VIXEN) which it continues to import and to sell.
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 10307
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Clive,
where are the 6" or 10" or 16" newtonian mirrors for the RB made.
JMI states he gets most of his 12.5" NGT mirrors from Intermountain Optical, but there is no mention (anywhere that I could find) of where the mirrors for the RBs come from.
edz
Hi Ed.
I posed the question to JMI and just got a reply today.
The 16" mirrors for their RB system are sourced from Inermountain Optics (US made).
There was no comment about the source of the 6" or 10" mirrors.
Soooo, it looks like there's at least one US-made binocular on the market. 
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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