Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hey All,
My new Pentax 20x60's are really nice. I will give a detailed review in awhile. In the meantime, does anyone want to buy my new Oberwerk 15x70's? Please, let me know!,
Thanks, Ray A. 
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nemo
sage
Reged: 06/09/03
Posts: 388
Loc: Eugene,Oregon
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Ray,
Congratulations on the new binoculars and we will be looking forward to your review.
Dan
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"Humility is not thinking less of your self-it is about thinking of yourself less."
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Ray, how would you compare the Petnax to the Oberwerks? I know that you said that you would do a detailed review soon, but just a rough idea about the two would be nice. I love my Obie 15x70s, BUT, they are the only pair of big binocs that I've ever looked through.
Congrats,
Eric
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Eric,
The Oberwerk 15x70's are great! The Pentax views are really outstanding though. The Obies have better ergonomics, nicer eyecups and feel better holding in the hand. I will soon give an example of the views of various celestial bodies.
Off the cuff, the Pentax have much more of a telescopic view and go way deeper than the Obies. Contrast and resolution are no comparison.
Bye the way, I buy several binoculars to use foe a little while and sell. On Astromart I have the Pentax 20x60's for sale already today for only, $160.00! Want to buy them?
Let me know,
Ray A.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Too cool, Ray!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Eric
You are welcome, Thank You!
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10142
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Ray,
If you like the Pentax 20 x 60 SO MUCH -- how come you are selling them after a few days use ?
Just interested ( if not slightly confused ! )
Regards , Kenny.
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Kenny,
Your right, I think they are about the best bino out there. I like to look for better ones also. So what I do is buy some, test them out, make notes and then usually sell them for a discount. Otherwise, I might end up with too many pair. Someday I will have my fill of testing, then I will keep what I consider the BEST!
It makes me feel good when I sell them to someone well below retail also. It's Christian and I can afford to!
Ray A.
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BarrySimon615
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 918
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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It is funny how different binoculars fit people in different ways, much like shoes. On the 25th, Ray wrote:
"The Oberwerk 15x70's are great! The Pentax views are really outstanding though. The Obies have better ergonomics, nicer eyecups and feel better holding in the hand." I had to reread this, I thought he made a mistake as I would have said the same about the Pentax, not the Oberwerks. Kind of reinforces the fact that whatever individuals say here is their opinion. Your best option is to try before you buy. What I like maybe will not be what you like.
Barry Simon
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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That's true Barry. Every opinion is just that, a opinion of some regard to which others may benefit. Both are truly good models, but in my comparison, the big edge goes to the Pentax.
Maybe soon I'll try some other brand that will change my opinion again!
I love these things,
Ray A.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Soon I'll be the next person to be able to do a side-by-side comparison on the Pentax 20x60's and the Oberwerks 15x70's thanks to being the latest recipient of Ray's Christian charity! I'll make sure that I "pay it forward", Ray.
Make sure you keep us updated about your quest for optical perfection!
Thaks again,
Eric
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10142
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Eric,
I look forward to your forthcoming review(s).
I also applaud Ray's "Christian Charity".
With all due respect to any owners ,these Pentax 20 x 60s would at least certainly seem to "fill a role" as a "poor man's" Takahashi 22 x 60.
For anyone content to to accept a 44 degree AFOV , I'm sure these binoculars MUST rank as one of THE great bargains for binocular astronomy , and I really hope that you like them.
Clear skies , Kenny.
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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jmoore
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 1959
Loc: Beaufort, NC
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Quote:
For anyone content to to accept a 44 degree AFOV , I'm sure these binoculars MUST rank as one of THE great bargains for binocular astronomy
Sounds like an ortho!!
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Hardin 12"
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12565
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Looks like an ortho, performs like an ortho.
Similar to the 16x60 I suspect. At 2.8° true measured, the view is sharp right out to the edge.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Kenny,
Coming from you I take it as a compliment!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
Ray Abraham
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well, now they're MY new bino's. They arrived this afternoon in perfect condition. I'll stick to non-optical impressions until they see first light in the dark. These things are built like a tank (and they kinda look like one too).
The one thing I WILL say about optics is that comparing the Obie 15x70's and the Pentax 20x60's is going to be like comparing apples to oranges...or maybe tangerines to oranges. Lower power/wider fov vs. higher power/narrow fov...like that debate hasn't been hashed over a million times in just about every forum on Cloudy Nights!!
I'll check back in after I see some stars,
Eric
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Ray,
Let me know when you have some Fujinon 25x150s to unload. 
PM me please to keep the wolves at bay.
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Takahashi FS-102
Fujinon FMT-SX2 7x50
Takahashi Astronomer 22x60
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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***DISCLAIMER***
All of the following is IMHO and to be taken with a grain of salt since I just started this hobby in January.
***************
Well, I've had a couple of days to get used to the Pentax 20x60's. At first I didn't really like them as much as I expected to. They have now grown on me. After reading all the technical stuff on Cloudy Nights about exit pupil, twilight factor and aperature/magnification (Thanks EdZ for organizing the information so nicely) the 15x70's and the 20x60's perform exactly as one would expect.
The big differences were:
1) Contrast with the 20'60's 3mm exit pupil and the 15x70's at 4.7mm. Darker sky and brighter stars. The nod going to the 20x60's.
2) Ergonomics. The 15x70's are just alot easier to look through with shorter 16mm eye relief and bigger exit pupil and softer, flexible eyecups. The eyecups on the 20x60's are hard and either retracted or fully extended...no wiggle room. Although the Obie's are listed as 49.6 oz and the Pentax at 45.1 oz, I'd swear that the 20x60's were heavier. The nod goes to the 15x70's.
3) FOV. Not much contest here. Larger image scale couldn't come close to making up for the narrow FOV of the 20x60's. The images on the 20x60's were sharp right up to the edge though while the 15x70's distort near the edge. Once again the nod goes to the 15x70's.
4) Resolution. M44 looks much more populated through the 20x60's and M13 forms a 'harder' image while in the 15x70's M13 was a softer fuzzier image. The moon shows more detail and contrast through the 20x60's. The Jovian moons are sharper as well. This definately goes to the 20x60's. Neither set did very well on Venus which looked like a stubby little comet.
There you have it. 2 to 2....tie score.
If I were stranded on a desert isle and I had to pick one or the other as my only binoculars.....the Oberwerk 15x70's just 'cause their easier to look through and hold. Actually since the Pentaxs' are waterproof/fogproof in REALITY I'd pick them, but not in our hypothetical model.
The Obies are glasses for 'looking around' and the Pentax's are glasses for 'looking at something'. That distinction might not make much sense, but I spend alot of time just noodling around in the sky as opposed to looking at, say, M13. Once you find what you're looking for, the views are nicer on small objects through the 20x60's. Both are very fine binoculars.
As I look at the numbers above, it leads me to one conclusion...I REALLY want to see what the views through 20x80's look like !!!
Sorry for babbling,
Eric
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Dennis
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: Westford, Mass
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Eric: Thanks for a great report and your perceptions on the differences. No babble there Eric, good reporting! 
I got my Ober 15x70's recently and I hear you about the noodle around vs. look at. Makes me wonder what I really want in a bino.  I have Burgess 20x100 on order and think the extra FOV will fill in the gap vs the 60's. However, I suspect the Pentax to have superior optics. Time will tell.
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Dennis
Nexstar9¼GPS
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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
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Great report, Eric! I love my Oberwerk 15x70s; they're really nice binocs.
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