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tomhole
sage
Reged: 12/20/02
Posts: 443
Loc: California, MD
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Well, my previously owned Fujinon 16x70's arrived today. Look great. As this is the first pair of real binoculars I have owned, I have nothing to compare them to except my really crappy Bushnell 10x50 stinkers.
I put them on my P-mount and was happy that it handled their heft with aplomb. I took the lens caps off, focused on the neighbor's house (white siding) and immediately noticed how huge the eye lenses are. This prevented me from getting my eyes close enough to see the entire FOV. My IPD is 58 mm and my upper, central proboscus region is slightly larger than average. I am an avid binoviewer with my Starmaster and find that my problem is not eye relief, but rather, nose relief. This has proven to be true with the Fuji's. I'm estimating that I can only see 60% of the AFOV because my nose won't fit in between the eyepieces. At night, that may increase with a more dialated pupil, but I have enough experience with the binoviewers to know that I am not going to fit in there.
I will give these a try tonight, but I'm 90% certain that the eye/nose relief will not be sufficient to allow me full access to the entire FOV. That is a requirement. So, I solicit your help. I would like to know what else is available in this class of binocular (and this size) that might offer more eye relief with the same quality optics.
One thing I did notice while looking at the neighbor's white siding is the CA. About the same as my Orion 80mm short tube refractor. Not bad, not great.
Anyway, can you help a beady eyed astronomer out? 
Clear skies,
Tom
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11" Starmaster
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BarrySimon615
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 902
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Like you implied, with large eyepieces, the Fujinon does present a problem in that each individual eyepiece is quite wide. (Don't even consider Pentax PCF V or PCF WP. Their eyepiece/eyecup design would not be good for you.)
One thing you may want to investigate is whether or not the Fujinon would work with the eyecups removed or cut down on the interior sides of both eyepieces. I would see if you could remove the rubber eyecups first and see if you can adjust to the right interpupilary distance without any nose/eyepiece contact. If you can, you may want to cut down each eyecup on it's "nose facing" side very carefully. If that fails you need to seek out binoculars that have relatively narrow diameter eyepieces with the proper amount of interpupilary distance and good eye relief. One thing you may want to do is measure the clearance you need between the eyepieces (eyecup side to eyecup side). With that information as well as your interpupilary distance, we could see what could give you the proper interpupilary distance (IPD of 58 mm) with the clearance you need.
One binocular that comes to mind that I bet would give you the specifications you need is the Carton Adlerblick 7x50, but then again this is less than half the magnification of the Fujinons and a much smaller aperture.
Barry Simon
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tomhole
sage
Reged: 12/20/02
Posts: 443
Loc: California, MD
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Barry,
Any idea how to get the eyecups off without ruining them? I tried tugging on them, but they did not appear to want to just slide off like telescope ep eyecups do. I would prefer not to resort to cutting them as I may not keep these binoculars.
Clear skies,
Tom
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11" Starmaster
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12513
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I've never had the need to have my eyes right up aginst the 16x70s to view. I use them mounted exclusively and i stand behind them without touching them probably by as much as a half inch or so. I find that I can see directly about 90% of the filed of view. By looking around, as if looking into a wide-field eyepiece, I can see the entire filed of view.
I wouldn't cut anything if I were you. the eyecups on these are very small probably taking up only 2-3mm per side. Try standing back from them and see if you can accept the view as is.
The daytime CA can be considerable if viewing off axis, lots of blue. I find it almost disappears completely when you view directly on-axis.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Henry Link
sage
Reged: 03/31/04
Posts: 316
Loc: Greensboro, NC
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The Nikon 18X70 has about 3mm more eye relief and 6mm more clearance between the eyepieces (if the foldable rubber eyecups are used) compared to the Fujinon 16X70 at the same IPD. Performance is certainly comparable, but unfortunately the Nikon cost twice as much.
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tomhole
sage
Reged: 12/20/02
Posts: 443
Loc: California, MD
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That's getting a bit out of my price range 
I just discovered that the eyecups just screw off. That made things a lot more comfortable. With a fully dialated pupil, I should be fine. If I get reflections on the ep's, I'll just use my light shield goggles I made to use with my binoviewers (I had to take all the eyecups off my ep's when I use them in my binoviewers. Same beady eye problem).
Clear skies,
Tom
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11" Starmaster
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10082
Loc: Lancashire UK
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This "nose relief" would appear to be a requirement of more concern to those with closer set eyes than with those wider set eyes such as myself ( 68mm IPD )
My own not inconsiderable snout was artificially flattened during my younger days when I foolishly thought it prudent to attempt to settle all personal disagreements by means of unofficial boxing bouts.
As a result , whilst having no problems with binoculars I have terrible trouble with eyeglasses , with no "bridge" as such on which to rest them.
So unless I wear glasses of the styling prefered by Sir Elton John circa 1975 or 1985 World Snooker Champion Dennis Taylor , their tendancy to slide down my beak like a toboggan on an exceedingly slippery slope renders them all but useless.
Fortunately , for night -time binocular usage WITH glasses , the intended viewing targets are upward of the horizontal plane , so gravity comes to the rescue.
This somewhat light -hearted banter apart , this really is a potentially serious problem for Fujinon FMT SX users , and sadly , there seems to be very few , if indeed any 70mm astro binoculars of comparable quality in the same price range , particularly in the US , where Fujis are relatively inexpensive as compared with UK prices.
Finally , I propose that for the benefit of those so afflicted ,perhaps "Nose Relief" deserves separate specific mention in all binocular specification lists ?
Regards , Kenny.
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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tomhole
sage
Reged: 12/20/02
Posts: 443
Loc: California, MD
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Here's a pic of the 16x70's on the hand made P-mount and Bogen 3046/3047 combo. Works real well in the garage.
Tom
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11" Starmaster
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16343
Loc: Brooker, FL
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For the nose issue, see:
http://www.astromart.com/viewad.asp?cid=266279 
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10082
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Rusty,
That sander would be of little use in the UK.
It being only 120 volt , I would imagine the operation would be exceedingly slow and painful , if at all possible.
Regards , Kenny.
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1502
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Tom, I think these guys with thier amazing surgical techniques can help.
http://coolstamps.com/mog99m01-marstoogess3.jpg
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Craig Simmons
Oberwerk 8x56, 20x90
Nikon Action IV 10x50
Barska 15x70
Galileo 20x60
Stellarvue 15x63, 20x85
Orion XT10 pre-Classic
Antares 10
Stellarvue AT1010
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: Liberal, Kansas
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Tom,
I have deep set eyes and high bridged nose, so I also have a problem with oversized occulars. I was disappointed when I bought a Swift Audubons for this reason. It was exceptionally sharp with a wide FOV, but I could not see much of that FOV, for the same reasons as you can't on the 16X70 Fuji -- oversized occulars and short ER. Worse, the push-up eyecups are hard, so it was impossible to force them into my "orbits" like I've done with oversized rubber eyecups. Plus, the Audubon has an oversized end cap that's close to the bottom of the occulars, not much "nose room." I even wrote Swift to see if they could retrofit the bin with rubber eyecups, but they balked (they could probably do it, but the labor cost would be more than the price of the binoculars).
My Nikon 8X32 SE has oversized occulars, but rubber eyecups so I can squeeze them in, not all the way, but far enough to get about 80% of the FOV. With the cups rolled down while viewing with my thin polycarbonate glasses, I can get that up to about 90%. Can't get that last 10% even with the cups down without glasses (which requires very precise positioning to avoid blackouts). The field stop can only be seen by tilting the bins.
I had a 6X30 FMTR-SX, and had no problems with it, because of the long ER (20mm) and the deeply recessed centerpost. However, it would appear that Japanese/Chinese bins are made for flat, Asian faces, not Europeans or European-Americans, many of whom tend to have our facial features.
If the Fujis don't work out with the screw off eyecups, and you don't mind stepping down in quality, the Obie 15X70 has better ER. Though it tries to imitate the oversized eyecups of the Fuji, the EPs are actually small, about the size of Swift Ultralites. I took the flimsy eyecups off and replaced them with winged Swarovski eyecups, and they are now more comfortable. After struggling with the collimation for months, I have them very close, but not quite dead-on, collimated. That's the downside of Obies, they don't hold collimation very well (except for the one pair that Edz brought on a hiking trip :-).
Some bins that fit our facial features:
Swift Ultralite series
Celestron Ultima/ED series
Orion Vista series
Orion Megaview series
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Oscar Zoroaster Diggs
"O.Z."
#########################################
"And remember, my sentimental friend....a heart is not judged by how much you love,
but by how much you are loved by others."
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Henry,
Thank you ever so much for posting about the Nikon 18x70s. Evidently I was correct and they do exist! When I mentioned them in a different thread one reader stated he never heard of them and gave the impression that I was imagining things. And, as an aside, I though the view through them was a tad better than with the Fujies. But that is my own humble impression influenced by the condition of my eyes and the physical attributes of the atmosphere at the exact moment I looked through them. Other viewers may get varying results.
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16343
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Quote:
Rusty,
That sander would be of little use in the UK.
It being only 120 volt , I would imagine the operation would be exceedingly slow and painful , if at all possible.
Regards , Kenny.
Kenny,
If one is dedicated to stargazing, and if one embraces one's physical anomalies, one could buy a 220v-110v converter.
That is, if one were truly dedicated...
--------------------
N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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