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erick
super member
Reged: 11/21/07
Posts: 104
Loc: Bacchus Marsh, Australia
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Re attaching images. Only one I think. I have to host them somewhere (eg. tinypic) and provide the links, it would seem.
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I've been emailing with erick, but this thread looks like the info I've been looking for. So, a couple of questions...
The Daisy BB gun finder.....how'd you mount it, and in general, how does one use a laser finder?
Anyone try a Hartmann mask for focusing?
My main issues (and frustrations) are focusing and getting an object into view (considering adding an alt-az mount to my photo tripod) and keeping it there.
David
-------------------- Sky-Watcher GreatStart 114N-EQ2
Galileoscope
FirstScope
Nikon Action 10x50 & 10x40 binoculars
Dakota 8x32 binoculars
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GregAlt
member
Reged: 06/23/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Seattle, WA, USA
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Quote:
Or, for $39, I can skip the combo deal and just get a 2x and a 12.5mm. Then I'd have 25x, 40x, 50x, and 80x - with a combination of the new 12.5mm and new 2x barlow and the stock 20mm eyepiece. Probably reasonable since the stock eyepiece isn't that bad, and there's probably not much benefit having more than 80x magnification.
Well, I got the eyepiece and barlow from owl and tried it out a bit. There's definitely an improvement, and 80x magnification of Jupiter doesn't seem to be overkill. I haven't yet tried the new barlow with the stock plastic 20mm eyepiece, but that should be interesting to compare.
On the downside, focusing and aiming at 80x is much trickier than with the stock 50x eyepiece+barlow. You have to be very steady to not zing jupiter out of view when trying to focus, and then it can take a while to find again - I think the higher quality eyepiece/barlow removes some of the glow that you get when your bright target is slightly out of view. The other downside is the eyepiece requires you to get closer, and that combined with the eye cup makes it more likely to bump the scope sending jupiter out of view.
I've gotten quite good at getting jupiter in view and focused at 50x - taking maybe 30 seconds. At 80x, it probably took me 5 minutes and quite a bit of frustration.
If I were to invest in anything more now, it would probably be something to help with focusing. Hopefully someone can figure out how to get a relatively cheap helical focuser to work with the galileoscope, or maybe some sort of DIY gadget to use leverage to get some fine-tune adjustment out of the stock focuser. I don't have any solid ideas yet, but it seems like you should be able to clamp something onto focuser and onto the galileoscope and then have some kind of exoskeleton that pushes and pulls the mount points to focus without jarring everything out of view.
-------------------- Orion XT8i - 8" f/5.9
Nikon Action 10x50 Binoculars
Galileoscope 50mm f/10 (20mm ep + 2x barlow)
25mm, 10mm Sirius Plossl eyepieces (1.25")
12.5mm Black Knight OWL Super Plossl
2x Knight OWL Barlow
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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This is in response to GregAlt...
I do woodworking, and am tempted to figure out some sort if micro adjuster like is used for tuning fences. I'm likely to try the helical focuser that erick mentions above. The only issue I have with it is that it rotates, and I'm trying to mount a camera, too. I've found another helical focuser, but it's twice the price, so haven't jumped for it.
David
-------------------- Sky-Watcher GreatStart 114N-EQ2
Galileoscope
FirstScope
Nikon Action 10x50 & 10x40 binoculars
Dakota 8x32 binoculars
Edited by DavidD (08/13/09 05:43 PM)
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PiperKev
sage
   
Reged: 12/19/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Grafton, OH
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As far as mounting the Daisy red dot finder, it was simple for me because the Giant Mars-Eye finder I bought for it previously came with a mount. From what I've read, you can get a standard "dovetail" mount for a couple of bucks from your local sporting goods store (probably even Walmart) for a couple of bucks. I just used double-sided sticky foam tape to attach the mount to my Galileoscope. Of course, I can't disassemble the scope now, but I planned to leave it assembled anyway.
I've also seen folks rubber band the finder to the scope, but that just looks tacky to me.
Hope this helps, Kevin
-------------------- Orion SkyQuest f/8 XT6 Classic
Sears 4-6333 60mm f/15 refractor
TeleVue Plossls: 32mm, 11mm
Orion Sirius Plossls: 25mm, 20mm
Astro-Tech Paradigm 15mm, 12mm, 8mm
TMB Planetary II: 5mm
Faworski Orthos: 16.8mm, 10.5mm, 7mm
Celestron Ultima 2x barlow
Orion LaserMate Deluxe + Meade 126 2x barlow
Telrad
Oberlin, OH Clear Sky Clock
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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That's what it looked like to me, double sided tape.
So, if I want to put something relatively inexpensive on the GS to sight with (I'll try to find the Daisy sight)......how do I use it? I assume I somehow have to calibrate it, and then, I point the red dot at what I want to view? I'm really a beginner at this part. I can use the rifle sight, though can't see it well. I have used a spotting scope on a cheap telescope with limited success. So, trying to find a possibly better solution at aiming the GS.
David
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PiperKev
sage
   
Reged: 12/19/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Grafton, OH
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Hi, David!
Basically, the Daisy sight (or any red dot finder) uses an LED to put a red dot on a clear screen. The finder will have screws (in the case of the Daisy sight) or knobs that you use to adjust where the dot appears on the screen. The best way to calibrate it is to point your scope at a fixed object, such as a light, center it in your eyepiece, then look through the finder. You use the knobs/screws (there are usually two - one for horizontal adjustment, one for vertical) to zero the dot in on the object you have centered in your eyepiece. It can work with Polaris, too, since it is relatively stationary. After you have adjusted the dot, you use both eyes, with one looking through the finder, and point your scope so that the dot is superimposed on whatever you want to observe. The object should then be centered in your eyepiece.
The Daisy sight is a bit bright, even at the low setting, and the screen is tinted, so it's not the perfect choice of finder, but it will work. Some ambitious folks have modified the Daisy finder so that the LED is dimmer and they remove the tint from the screen:
Daisy Red Dot Finder--The Easy Way
Modify the $12 Daisy Red Dot BB-Gun Sight for Astronomical Use
Daisy also offers a finder similar to the Giant Mars-Eye finder that has a brightness control (Max View Electronic Point Site, Item 7811), but I haven't been able to find one locally.
Hope this helps, Kevin
-------------------- Orion SkyQuest f/8 XT6 Classic
Sears 4-6333 60mm f/15 refractor
TeleVue Plossls: 32mm, 11mm
Orion Sirius Plossls: 25mm, 20mm
Astro-Tech Paradigm 15mm, 12mm, 8mm
TMB Planetary II: 5mm
Faworski Orthos: 16.8mm, 10.5mm, 7mm
Celestron Ultima 2x barlow
Orion LaserMate Deluxe + Meade 126 2x barlow
Telrad
Oberlin, OH Clear Sky Clock
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Kevin,
Thanks for the links and the explanation. I think I saw similar sights at Harbor Freight the other day. I'll stop by on the way to work.
I didn't envision an overlaying dot. I pictured a red stream into the sky, and didn't quite see how that was aim-able.
David
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I've had in mind to add more support under the scope, even more than erick's mount, by making taking a strip of wood, routing out a spot for the scopes mount, putting in a 1/4" bolt to attach the scope, and either add cradles or rings to hold the ends. Then, put a sliding dovetail on the bottom. Second piece is a block of wood with a dovetail dado, and a 1/4" thread to mount on the tripod. Add a side screw to lock the scope in place. Slide the dovetails together and find the balance point and lock it in.
Then in surfing the web today, I realized there are probably existing milled metal parts to do the same thing. So, not knowing any better, is there any reason that my woodworking solution won't work as well as the commercial parts?
David
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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OK, I'm on a roll. I'm a little late to this party, but I'm personally still kicking around ideas to make the GS better. So, to stimulate some more ideas and conversation.....
I ran across this focuser in my searching.
http://www.meridiantelescopes.com/images/telescopefocuser/fcr07b.htm
Logic tells me this won't work, as the ID of the focuser end of the GS is about 1 7/8". But, I also know that there are tricks of the trade in building scopes, and something could maybe be rigged to use this.
I'm also interested as I do have a ~2" tube and a 2nd GS kit, and maybe could get the focuser to fit this tube somehow. Again, it's smaller than the spec....the ID is around 2.1-2.2", but it's at least closer.
And.....there is a focuser on the 2" tube, but it's too small to use in the GS without dismantling it, and sawing it to bits to make something usable. However, I've pretty much determined this scope is useless, so I'm willing to do that and do some experimenting.
Comments??
David
-------------------- Sky-Watcher GreatStart 114N-EQ2
Galileoscope
FirstScope
Nikon Action 10x50 & 10x40 binoculars
Dakota 8x32 binoculars
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PiperKev
sage
   
Reged: 12/19/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Grafton, OH
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Quote:
Kevin,
Thanks for the links and the explanation. I think I saw similar sights at Harbor Freight the other day. I'll stop by on the way to work.
I didn't envision an overlaying dot. I pictured a red stream into the sky, and didn't quite see how that was aim-able.
David
Sure thing, David!
Actually, there are green laser finders on the market now that incorporate a green laser pointer and a mount. It does aim a beam of green laser light into the sky, but I've never seen one actually in use. Interesting concept, though!
Cheers, Kevin
-------------------- Orion SkyQuest f/8 XT6 Classic
Sears 4-6333 60mm f/15 refractor
TeleVue Plossls: 32mm, 11mm
Orion Sirius Plossls: 25mm, 20mm
Astro-Tech Paradigm 15mm, 12mm, 8mm
TMB Planetary II: 5mm
Faworski Orthos: 16.8mm, 10.5mm, 7mm
Celestron Ultima 2x barlow
Orion LaserMate Deluxe + Meade 126 2x barlow
Telrad
Oberlin, OH Clear Sky Clock
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I found the Daisy dot finder at Wallyworld for <$9. All HF had were spotting scopes. There was a rack for a laser finder under the Daisy, but it was empty. Will try it out soon.
David
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erick
super member
Reged: 11/21/07
Posts: 104
Loc: Bacchus Marsh, Australia
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Many amateurs make use of a green laser pointer. Green is used because the eye is more sensitive to this wavelength than the common red laser pointer. If skies are dark enough, a 5 milliwatt green laser pointer is sufficient power. To have a red laser pointer to be as visible, it has to be much more powerful.
USE:- If the laser beam is pointed at the dark sky when your eyes have adjusted, the beam hits all the dust and fine water droplets in the sky and scatters back so one can see the beam going off into the sky - sort of Star Wars Light Sabre-like! If people are standing close to the person with the laser (within say 10 feet) they also see the beam. The trigonometry is such that they all perceive the end of the laser beam to be at the same infinite point. So if the person holding it points it so that the end of the beam seems to them to be on a star, the others see the same thing. So it is really useful for someone to show other people things in the sky or to indicate a point they want to look at.
Now, if you mount a laser beam on your telescope (there are special laser pointer holders that you can buy) and align it properly with the axis of the scope (like aligning the Daisy Dot finder) then, if you move the scope so the laser beam seems to end at the object of interest, it will be in the field of view of the scope. It is really easy.
One point to mention. Green lasers stop "lasing" at low temperatures. My experience that this is down around a few degrees above freezing (in my case around 3-5 deg Celsius). Many people think it is their batteries going flat or cold, but it is the laser itself. You need to keep it warm. Best way is, between uses, put it in an inside pocket against your body.
SAFETY:- Which leads us to safety. A mis-used green laser pointer can be a significant problem. Shone into someone's eyes can cause a problem. Usually the blink reflex prevents serious damage, but with the more powerful lasers (I have seen these lasers sold up to 100 milliwatts), who knows. At least they will distract a pilot or a car driver and un-intelligent people have done this with them. They should not be in the hands of children or anyone who does not understand and won't use them responsibly and safely. Hence keeping it in your pocket between uses so no one else touches it. A second problem is avoiding getting thumped by an astrophotographer whose image was ruined by the flash of a green laser pointer beam through his/her field of view. Be careful if others are taking images.
LAW:- In various jurisdictions, there are laws that deal with these devices. For example, in my State of Australia, any hand-held laser pointer of greater than 1 milliwatt emittable power is a "prohibited weapon". I have a licence from the Police to possess and use my 5 milliwatt laser pointer and I had to justify its use and adhere to certain conditions and pay a licence fee.
Do a bit of goggling of green lasers and astronomy and safety and law and you'll find all you need.
Edited by erick (08/15/09 06:20 PM)
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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erick - thanks for the explanation. I'm always a bit leery about lasers anyway. I worked on fiber optic telecom equipment for years. Kids using the red ones for pranks just irk me.
Kevin -
Let me curb my excitement, but - wooooohooooo!!!!!
I might regret this later, but my Daisy sight had two rails on the sides, making the dovetail square. I just loosened these up a bit an fit the finder over the gun sight, the tightened them back down. All seems to be secure, and they look like the clamp just at or a bit lower than the V, so I don't think they'll break the gun sight with the clamping pressure. You can also still use the original sight - you just have a triangle to aim with instead of a V.
And, IT WORKS! I've only sighted with it in the daylight, but I can easily aim the scope now. This will make things a log easier for me.
BTW, this finder switch has two positions, a low power and normal power. I'll have to try it at night, but I think the low power will work fine. And, as you state, since you use both eyes, the tinting on the sight is now really an issue.
David
-------------------- Sky-Watcher GreatStart 114N-EQ2
Galileoscope
FirstScope
Nikon Action 10x50 & 10x40 binoculars
Dakota 8x32 binoculars
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PiperKev
sage
   
Reged: 12/19/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Grafton, OH
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That's very cool, David! I never thought to clamp it directly onto the existing sight! I may have to give that a look so that I CAN take the scope back apart in the future. Thanks for the idea!
Cheers, Kevin
-------------------- Orion SkyQuest f/8 XT6 Classic
Sears 4-6333 60mm f/15 refractor
TeleVue Plossls: 32mm, 11mm
Orion Sirius Plossls: 25mm, 20mm
Astro-Tech Paradigm 15mm, 12mm, 8mm
TMB Planetary II: 5mm
Faworski Orthos: 16.8mm, 10.5mm, 7mm
Celestron Ultima 2x barlow
Orion LaserMate Deluxe + Meade 126 2x barlow
Telrad
Oberlin, OH Clear Sky Clock
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RatOmeter
journeyman
Reged: 08/13/09
Posts: 8
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Quote:
erick - thanks for the explanation. I'm always a bit leery about lasers anyway.
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I've added the above sticker to the front of my scope ;-) Anyone looking back at me has been warned.
I tried out the finder last night. It was fine with my 20mm EP in, but not close enough with a Barlow. I tweaked it a bit, and I think it at least gets me in the middle third of the field of view. I really have to thank you for this info. It makes things 10x, no 100x easier for me to aim the scope.
I went to the hardware store on Saturday with a digital calipers looking for things that might work for things that would work for lens caps, etc. I bought a few things in the plumbing dept, but they were all oh so close, but not close enough. A 1.5" rubber cap will fit the back of the scope with no lenses inserted. I found some test caps that almost fit the front. These are knock outs, and I punched the center out of one, and put a cross made of tape over it. It will hang off the end of the scope as a mask. I can see the spikes, but they are faint enough that I can't get much closer in focus. I also figured out that when focusing, the biggest issue is the jiggling and trying to keep the object in view. BTW, I did find a sewer grate that just didn't quite fit the end. But, holding it manually, I see a bunch of images that converge when in focus, so my guess is, it'd work if it'd fit.
So, still thinking about focusing....any way to rig a simple Crayford setup to roll the tube in and out, losing a minimum of inward travel?
David
-------------------- Sky-Watcher GreatStart 114N-EQ2
Galileoscope
FirstScope
Nikon Action 10x50 & 10x40 binoculars
Dakota 8x32 binoculars
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mwedel
sage
   
Reged: 12/16/07
Posts: 336
Loc: Claremont, CA
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Quote:
So, still thinking about focusing....any way to rig a simple Crayford setup to roll the tube in and out, losing a minimum of inward travel?
I wonder if the PVC Crayford described here could be adapted for the G'Scope?
-------------------- XT10
XT6
Astroscan
orange tube C90
15x70
10x50
10 Minute Astronomy
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I apologize for not quoting all my replies. I hope everyone reading can figure out what my posts refer to.
Quote:
I wonder if the PVC Crayford described here could be adapted for the G'Scope?
This is closer than anything I've come across. The challenge would be to make it slim enough so that you don't lose any focus length. I hate to say it, but something could probably be hacked into the tube itself. You'd keep the inward range, but lose some outward range.
I have searched to find a linear bearing that was slim, say 1/4"-1/2", but haven't come up with one. Everthing I've found is too long, or rotates instead of sliding.
David
-------------------- Sky-Watcher GreatStart 114N-EQ2
Galileoscope
FirstScope
Nikon Action 10x50 & 10x40 binoculars
Dakota 8x32 binoculars
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DavidD
super member
Reged: 07/23/09
Posts: 187
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I might have half of the solution for a lightweight Crayford. I haven't tried anything out yet, but decide to post this to see if it generated any ideas. Shower curtain rings with bearings on them. I bought the cheap ones at the local hardware store to work with. Not sure what to use for the friction roller, though. I'd like to do this with off the shelf parts, as that helps anyone else that might want to make one. I could use wood to give it somewhat of a frame to hold the roller. Am thinking of using two of the rings and the roller in between. The other issue is how to mount it to the scope so that it has something to work against.
David
-------------------- Sky-Watcher GreatStart 114N-EQ2
Galileoscope
FirstScope
Nikon Action 10x50 & 10x40 binoculars
Dakota 8x32 binoculars
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