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djeber2
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Loc: Cloudy Midwest
Camelopardalids
      #6543034 - 05/24/14 09:09 AM

I only saw 5 meteors from 12:30 AM to 2:30 AM. EDT

Anyone else have any better results??


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bierbelly
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Reged: 01/23/04

Loc: Sterling, VA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: djeber2]
      #6543038 - 05/24/14 09:13 AM

I woke up a little after 3 EDT. Went out for a few minutes and didnt see a single meteor. Not a storm by any means.

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Jon_Doh
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Reged: 09/16/11

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Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: bierbelly]
      #6543046 - 05/24/14 09:16 AM

Quote:

I woke up a little after 3 EDT. Went out for a few minutes and didnt see a single meteor. Not a storm by any means.




Same here.


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ur7x
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Reged: 01/08/12

Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: djeber2]
      #6543093 - 05/24/14 09:58 AM

Started to watch from 2:30 AM EDT gave up at 3:10 AM.

Saw 2. One was very faint. One was brilliant.
Both occurred closer to 2:30 then 3:00 EDT.

I've seen more on non-shower nights...
A total bust.


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pauldelery
newbie


Reged: 11/14/13

Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: ur7x]
      #6543130 - 05/24/14 10:27 AM



I've seen more on non-shower nights...
A total bust.




Just like that for our group, too. It seemed even worse than a normal night.


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djeber2
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Reged: 07/02/04

Loc: Cloudy Midwest
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: ur7x]
      #6543133 - 05/24/14 10:28 AM

Quote:

I've seen more on non-shower nights...
A total bust.




This is what I was thinking as I lie there not seeing any for a loooong time....


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zerro1
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Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: ur7x]
      #6543134 - 05/24/14 10:28 AM

saw clouds...

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Keith NC
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Reged: 01/05/08

Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: zerro1]
      #6543307 - 05/24/14 12:08 PM

2:30 to 3:15 am EDT, and nothing. But a great night to just explore with some small binoculars, so not a waste

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Sonomajfk
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Reged: 06/30/12

Loc: northern CA, USA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Keith NC]
      #6543364 - 05/24/14 12:34 PM

Went out at 11 pm PDT, had a perfect setup, in my zero-gravity chair wrapped in warm blanket, I could have stayed out all night. The only thing missing were the meteors. I saw 3 between 11 pm and 1 am PDT. At that point I was getting really drowsy, and since I had the alarm set for 6:30 this am, I gave up. But still a beautiful evening under the stars.
John.


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djeber2
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Reged: 07/02/04

Loc: Cloudy Midwest
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Sonomajfk]
      #6543416 - 05/24/14 12:59 PM

I also used my 12x50 Nikon AE to scan the Cygnus milky way and pick out some of the various Globulars and open clusters. It was a nice evening of observing but I would have went in at least an hour earlier if I knew there were so few meteors to be seen.

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Sarkikos
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Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: djeber2]
      #6543435 - 05/24/14 01:12 PM

I was out from 2:30 to 4:00 am EDT. Did not see any meteors. This was from a high hill about a mile from my house - I walked there - and from the side of my house. I saw a fox trotting along a path on my way to the hill.

A young couple that came up the hill were afraid at first when they saw me sitting on my camp stool at the top. The girl gasped, "Is that a person?" I should have moaned, "I used to be a person..." There was a house at this site many years ago. Maybe they thought I was a ghost? Funny.

The sky was mostly clear, seeing good. Some haze came from time to time. When Lyra was near zenith, I could actually split the main pair of the Double Double naked eye ... well, with my glasses on, of course.

I should have stayed home and played with my new NexStar 6/8 mount.

Mike


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BarrySimon615
Pa Bear
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Reged: 03/01/04

Loc: New Orleans, LA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6543465 - 05/24/14 01:26 PM

12 members of our club (Pontchartrain Astronomy Society - New Orleans) were up at our club site approximately 55 miles north of the city near 31 degrees north latitude and about 90.3 degrees west longitude. The night was ok for observing but not spectacular. Some light cirrus clouds and moderately high humidity. Limiting naked eye magnitude was approximately 6.0. We had steady skies good for the planets and they were nice. A couple of sporadic meteors prior to midnight, we call them "Randomids".

Post midnight we had a brief quick run of very fast meteors with short tails that seemed to radiate from an area between Vega and the northeast horizon. I saw between 15 and 20 in total and for one brief minute I saw 8 in rapid succession. I believe these were likely associated with the anticipated shower. This was at approximately 12:45 am. With this activity we expected more, but that never happened. We saw about 3 or 4 more over the next hour and a half and then the skies sort of closed in. Oh well, maybe the Leonids again in another 19 or 20 years!

Pa Bear


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Doc Bob
professor emeritus
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Reged: 02/27/09

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6543475 - 05/24/14 01:30 PM

I was out from 04:00 to 04:30 am EDT. saw 5 meteors. only one long streak moving to the East, one appearing to come straight at me, two bright but very short lived, and one good sized very bright one that lasted only a fraction of a second . . . almost missed it! All were white, and all but the long streak eminated from the radiant.

Bob


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kfiscus
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Doc Bob]
      #6543624 - 05/24/14 03:06 PM

Our group of three was out from 10PM to 4 AM CDT in southern MN. Trees around site prevented seeing low ones in N and NE. We saw 6 all night that could have come from the right area.

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Jerry Lodriguss
Vendor


Reged: 07/19/08

Loc: Voorhees, NJ
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: kfiscus]
      #6543768 - 05/24/14 04:59 PM

We had completely clear skies here in south New Jersey from midnight till dawn (EDT) under mag 20.80 skies.

We had 8 observers and we saw, maybe, 2-3 meteors per hour. And they were extremely unimpressive. No fireballs at all.

I shot two cameras, each with a 16mm lens at f/2.

30-sec exposures at ISO 1600 unfiltered.

Covered nearly 7,000 square degrees of sky.

Shot 455 frames total from 6:07UT to 8:12UT.

I think I may have recorded one piddling little meteor, and if it was a Camelopardalid, the radiant in Camelopardalis is closer to Cassiopeia than it is to Omicron Ursae Majoris (which is what one source listed as the radiant being very near). The line nearly intersects BE Camelopardalis.


Jerry


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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Jerry Lodriguss]
      #6543987 - 05/24/14 07:26 PM

I went out at 10:30 PM MST, and almost immediately saw a bright green fireball (in another part of the sky). About an hour later, I saw one faint one in the north that was probably one of the shower. Nothing more until 12:30AM, when I bagged it and went in.
As soon as I went inside, it was probably machine-gun meteors, and I missed it. *sigh*


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Namlak
member


Reged: 06/14/12

Loc: Northridge, CA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #6544006 - 05/24/14 07:41 PM

From the Mt. Pinos area, we saw nothing special save for one quite impressive fireball with a bright white head and an orange tail that persisted for more than a minute.

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Sarkikos
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Loc: Scotophobe Maryland, USA
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Namlak]
      #6544076 - 05/24/14 09:02 PM

This thread suggests why I don't usually get too excited about meteor showers. Your success is subject to location, weather conditions, dumb luck and your willingness to stare naked eye at the sky for hours on end.


Mike


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rtomw77
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Reged: 10/06/04

Loc: Deer Valley, AZ
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #6544119 - 05/24/14 09:37 PM

Nothing seen through holes in the clouds from my urban backyard. I gave up just after 1AM MST.

The best thing of the night was watching and hearing TV news people trying to say 'Camelopardalids' or 'Cameloparalis'.

Tom


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ngc2289
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Reged: 04/13/05

Loc: Corpus Christi, TX.
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: zerro1]
      #6544158 - 05/24/14 10:00 PM

I went outside four times between 12:30, and 3:15. Saw nothing but clouds here in Corpus Christi.

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FeynmanFan
professor emeritus
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Reged: 02/18/11

Loc: N Colo front range
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: ngc2289]
      #6544323 - 05/25/14 12:26 AM

Clouds only at 12:30. Went out again at 3:00 to spotty clouds, but in 15 minutes saw nothing, except more clouds rolling in.

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strdst
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Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: Oregon Territory
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: FeynmanFan]
      #6544388 - 05/25/14 01:44 AM

From Western Oregon saw one very bright yellowish meteor right where I would have expected it after observing for three 5 minute spans from 11:00 to 1:00 PDT. Being just one makes it kinda more special, right?

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Rick Woods
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: strdst]
      #6544857 - 05/25/14 11:47 AM

Quote:

Being just one makes it kinda more special, right?




The Precioussss!


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Dave Mitsky
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Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: djeber2]
      #6544908 - 05/25/14 12:38 PM

I drove 40 miles to the Piney Mountain ATV Parking Lot dark site last night, arriving at approximately 10:30 p.m. EDT. Tony Donnangelo, a fellow ASH member, got there shortly before I did. There were quite a few campers there but they didn't pose all that much of a problem. I did a bit of DSO observing with my 80mm f/5 Orion ShortTube 80 achromat and 8x42 and 10x50 Celestron binoculars before settling down to the task at hand. A constant wind made things feel much colder than the actual temperature indicated.

Tony and I began watching for meteors in earnest shortly before midnight. Contrary to the forecasts, the sky was perfectly clear until, of course, shortly before 2:00 a.m., the earliest predicted time of the so-called Camelopardalid peak, at which point the sky began to cloud over. Before too long, the sky was completely overcast.

We waited for about 40 minutes and decided to pack up. Just as we were about to leave, the sky cleared. There were periods of cloudiness from time to time afterwards but we hung in there until the crescent Moon rose and astronomical twilight brightened the sky. All told we got in a total of at least 3.5 hours of dedicated meteor watching time. During that time, each of us saw a grand total of five meteors, all of them sporadics. There were no slow-moving fireballs. Not a single meteor emanated from the proposed radiant, although some of them headed towards it, more or less.

We left the site at 4:45 a.m. I didn't crawl into bed until after 7:00 a.m. and slept only a couple of hours before waking.

According to http://spaceweather.com/, ZHRs were in the 5 to 10 meteors per hour range, which means it was a very minor shower. The rates shown at http://www.imo.net/ are just a bit higher.

Despite the disappointing results, I enjoyed my first outing to a dark sky site since I fractured my right clavicle last year. I observed Albireo, M13, M31, M39, M51, M57, M81, M82, M101, NGC 869 and 884 (the Double Cluster) and NGC 7000 (the North America Nebula), saw four satellite passes including two flashing tumblers and an ISS pass. It was great to behold the summer Milky Way under a fairly dark sky once again. There was a fine view of the waning crescent Moon and Venus on the way home.

And now a humorous look at one more overhyped astronomical event.

Boom or bust? Bust!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/05/23/boom-o...

Hit or flop? Flop!

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/meteor-shower-showtime-will-camelopardal...

The CamelopardaDUDs?

http://earthsky.org/space/camelopardalids-where-is-our-rain-of-meteors-observ...

Where, oh where have the Camelopardalids gone?

http://www.skynews.ca/meteor-shower-no-show/

There were some positive results, however.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ - ISS and Camelopardalids

http://spaceweathergallery.com/meteor_gallery.html - photo gallery

http://www.ericteske.com/2014/05/camelopardalids-meteor-fireball-with.html - a fine image of a fireball and subsequent smoke trail in Ursa Major

http://www.space.com/26005-camelopardalids-meteor-shines-as-bright-as-jupiter... - video

Dave Mitsky


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swix
member
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Reged: 03/25/12

Loc: Maryland
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #6546261 - 05/26/14 09:44 AM

I wonder if these meteor shower folks went to the same "Forecasting School" as the weather folks ??

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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: swix]
      #6546594 - 05/26/14 01:02 PM

Not likely. Even the weather guys, with their iffy forecast record, have a far better track record than the folks repeatedly issuing alerts for impressive new meteor showers that don't appear.

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (05/26/14 01:03 PM)


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Tonk
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/19/04

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Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6547791 - 05/27/14 04:48 AM

The forecasters were sort of right after all - there was an intense shower .... if you monitored it with radar. So it seems that the vast majority of meteors were in the mag 7 range

http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=27&month=05&year=2014

(scroll down to find artical)


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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Tonk]
      #6548107 - 05/27/14 11:15 AM

Folks, don't the conclusions drawn in the Spaceweather-posted article trouble anyone else? Therein it cites Peter Brown as saying, "The shower was quite strong as seen by radar, but almost exclusively in underdense echoes - that is, it was rich in faint meteors (i.e., 6th to 7th magnitude),"

So, the claim is that the meteor shower was rich in what essentially would be regarded as "heavy" dust particles and minute meteroids too small to generate visual meteors for even the keenest naked eye observers under great skies to detect. But what had been originally concluded by those who predicted the shower/storm of Camelopardalids in the first place? Was it not that it would be a shower rich in mostly very bright meteors, because that would all that might be left in these century, or two, old comet debris streams?

Now anyone really familiar with comet behavior will tell you straight away that dust, even "heavy dust", emitted by the nucleus will soon leave the immediate vicinity of that body and through effects from the solar wind and magnetic field move progressively away from the comet's orbital path. The heaviest dust and even the smallest meteoroids would be anticipated to follow in the same fashion over time, slowly dissipating over the course of centuries, likely leaving mostly particles large enough to resist these forces over the course of 20-40 perihelia and thereby probably large enough to generate mostly visible meteors.

My guess would be that what the radar data is more likely to be indicating is fine debris laid down much more recently by 209P, probably within its last few revolutions. This would be especially likely to encounter given the current extreme proximity of the comet (and its orbital path) to the Earth.

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (05/27/14 11:18 AM)


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LivingNDixie
TSP Chowhound
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Reged: 04/23/03

Loc: Trussville, AL
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6548378 - 05/27/14 02:25 PM

If the meteors were faint, then why there not photos from folks showing them? I would think people doing star trail style images would have picked them up?

Anyway saw this on twitter thought it was funny...

https://mobile.twitter.com/twcMariaLaRosa/media/grid?idx=11&tid=470179487...

Edited by LivingNDixie (05/27/14 02:26 PM)


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Dave Mitsky
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Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #6550350 - 05/28/14 02:41 PM

Apparently, the Camelopardalids were a stronger shower than anyone realized, as long as radar was used to detect the meteors.

http://spaceweather.com/ - 5/28/14

Dave Mitsky

Edit: I did not notice that this had already been mentioned.


Edited by Dave Mitsky (05/28/14 09:48 PM)


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Tonk
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Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #6550705 - 05/28/14 06:06 PM

Quote:

If the meteors were faint, then why there not photos from folks showing them?




It will be down to total integration time per pixel. The stars are bright and drifting over the sensor pixels at a relatively slow rate likely saturating them! The image of the faint meteors crosses over the sensor pixels at a hugely faster rate with far far less photons captured.

If any one was doing star trails at the time then an aggressive data stretch might reveal a few faint meteor tracks


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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Tonk]
      #6551690 - 05/29/14 09:10 AM

Please look again at my post of 5/27.

BrooksObs


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Tonk
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6551883 - 05/29/14 11:31 AM

Yup have read but fail to see the connection regarding my comments on camera sensitivity and fast moving very faint objects. I was pointing out that ***in general*** *very* sensitive cameras may be needed to record anything that is supposedly mag 7 and moving fast across a FOV of the camera. It wasn't just a comment on Camelopardalids, I have enough trouble getting very faint trails across my images from space junk to know that they show up after aggressive contrast stretching - so that's the way to find this sort of stuff if you haven't got a radar!

However I see elsewhere people reporting small but significant numbers of very visible bright meteors emanating from the radiant - so some folk did get to see something.


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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Tonk]
      #6552030 - 05/29/14 01:18 PM

Tonk, my comment was not referring to a camera's abilities to detect of faint meteors, or not but rather pointed toward caution in acceptance of the radar imagining as a definitive sign that the predicted shower occurred just as anticipated. The conclusion of the Spaceweather article is that it did, but was simply composed of meteors drastically fainter than anticipated...which my post's conclusions would seriously question.

Somewhere else on this forum, I'm not sure just where, I went to great lengths even before the meteor shower was scheduled to occur exlaining why even the calculations used for predicting the event were doubtful in my mind and for good reason.

BrooksObs


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blb
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Piedmont NC
Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6552085 - 05/29/14 01:53 PM

Quote:

I woke up a little after 3 EDT. Went out for a few minutes and didnt see a single meteor. Not a storm by any means.



Same here in NC. This shower was a total bust for a visual observer.


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Tonk
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/19/04

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Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: blb]
      #6554929 - 05/31/14 05:19 AM

Quote:

The conclusion of the Spaceweather article is that it did, but was simply composed of meteors drastically fainter than anticipated...which my post's conclusions would seriously question.




I read that as the conclusion provided by the Canadian institution operating the meteor Radar - not Spaceweather per se. The plot they (the Canadians) publish shows a higher density of signals emanating from Cameleopardis while at the same time showing signals from well known meteor streams active at the time in other regions of the sky. So if that Cam signal peak isn't faint meteors what could it be?


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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: Camelopardalids new [Re: Tonk]
      #6555292 - 05/31/14 11:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The conclusion of the Spaceweather article is that it did, but was simply composed of meteors drastically fainter than anticipated...which my post's conclusions would seriously question.




I read that as the conclusion provided by the Canadian institution operating the meteor Radar - not Spaceweather per se. The plot they (the Canadians) publish shows a higher density of signals emanating from Cameleopardis while at the same time showing signals from well known meteor streams active at the time in other regions of the sky. So if that Cam signal peak isn't faint meteors what could it be?




I don't for a moment question the reality of the radar detection. There most certainly must have been a mass of minute in-coming particles reflecting that radar signal. What I am saying is how can one determine if these signals were originating specifically from the predicted meteor storm debris stream(s) generated between 1800 and 1900, or was simply from a debris stream laid down by 209P much more recently just a few perihelia back before it was discovered? Incidentally, that is something I would consider to be more likely than century-old trails whose actual orbital elements would be very uncertain. It would also be much more in character with displays like the Draconids and Giacobinids.

Certainly, many of 209P's debris streams would have the potential for being the source. The Camelopardalids may even have shown occasional previous activity, but occurring only when 209P happened to be passing near the Earth. As a previous Camelopardalid meteor shower would likely have gone quite undetected due to the faintness of the meteors it would have only come to light by a chance discovery through radar monitoring just happening to be in progress on the nights when we encountered the comet's orbital path with the comet nearby.

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (05/31/14 11:23 AM)


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