azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: stanislas-jean]
#5193824 - 04/27/12 06:20 PM
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Stan,
Its a mirage.
Visually, its a mirage.
Pete
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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/07/10
Loc: Davison, Michigan
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: Asbytec]
#5193865 - 04/27/12 06:41 PM
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Ionized Oxygen is a better explanation, if it's bright enough to be seen and if the Sun can ionize it at Venus distance.
This has been measured using pro gear in Hawaii. Perhaps an OII filter can help reduce glare.
using an occultion filter led to no view for me. Too much CA.
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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/07/10
Loc: Davison, Michigan
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: buddyjesus]
#5194064 - 04/27/12 10:00 PM
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people aren't supposed to be able to be sensitive to UV either.
Here is my obs report using 143x( three quarter mm exit pupil)with occulting tape covering half of my 82a filter(highest transmission of all my filters.) I looked the last two nights in a row simply cause I can often see cloud detail on that planet. I didn't see anything convincing either way due to extensive chromatic aberration. Occasionally I would not focus on specific areas and using averted vision I would see an overall brightening of the dark side. I also saw beautiful polar cusps(more distinct IMHO than Stan's sketch) and a quite extensive area of terminal shading as shared on Stan's report.
Sometimes I saw brightening overall for the dark side compared to the background sky. Mostly when the scope wasn't cooled yet.
PS, It is documented that I am not the only person on the planet that can see UV.
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Achernar
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Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: azure1961p]
#5194130 - 04/27/12 10:54 PM
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Amatuers already have recorded the surface of Venus in the infrared region of the spectrum around the 1 micron band with CCD cameras, right through the clouds on the night side. On the sunlit side, the clouds reflect and emit so much infrared radiation a camera so equipped will not penetrate them, but the Venus Express orbiter has been able to peer through the clouds on the night side of the planet. It's definite you can image the surface directly. With a surface temperature of at least 900 degrees Fahrenheit and places with active lava flows far hotter than that, I think it is reasonable to expect the thermal glow of the surface should be seen at least occasionaly from Earth.
Taras
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: Achernar]
#5194153 - 04/27/12 11:08 PM
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Taras ,
I know they have. But that s infra red and so is invisible to the human eye as is near infra red. Ive seen the ashen light too but its eye brain based, not external. The infra red night time glow recorded is completely real too but to call it the ashen light is to call a polar bear a Big Foot. The infra red and the ashen light are two utterly different thi gs with seperate mechanisms. Its convenient that its their in infra red but there is no visual correlate. Itd be a real crime of identity if all these ashen light sightings piggy backed on the infra red images. Theres simply no connection.
Pete
Edited by azure1961p (04/27/12 11:11 PM)
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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
Reged: 08/08/07
Loc: La Union, PI
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: azure1961p]
#5194218 - 04/27/12 11:49 PM Attachment (7 downloads)
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It's lightening, apparently.
http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/personnel/russell/papers/ashen/
Below is the equation that determines the probability of seeing it.
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: Asbytec]
#5194465 - 04/28/12 07:45 AM
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Just what Stan needs.
Pete
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brianb11213
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Reged: 02/25/09
Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: azure1961p]
#5194493 - 04/28/12 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Just what Stan needs.
What, enlightening? Is he Buddhist? 
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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
Reged: 08/08/07
Loc: La Union, PI
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: brianb11213]
#5194510 - 04/28/12 08:21 AM
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Well, still, you know we gotta try to observe it.
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: Asbytec]
#5194702 - 04/28/12 11:06 AM
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Its as reasl as the Terby White Spot on Saturn and theres nothing wrong with seeing it but Id bet everything the Ashen thing is merely the eye/brain filling in the gap. the lightening scenerio is quite old and Id be inclined to belive its not nearly strong or enduring enough to light up the hemisphere like that. again , its a simple matter in this dy and age; make a visible light ccd image of the night side occulting the crescent as the ccd often mimics the same optical illusions we see. If the night side is still glowing in visible light with the cusps, horns and what have you not in the exposure its real. I doubt itll ever happen along nay visible wave lengths. And again its there for the taking if its to be imaged in visible light.
Its so far not ever been imaged under those guidelines. Infrared looks dandy but but visual is just not there.
Pete
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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: azure1961p]
#5195154 - 04/28/12 03:21 PM
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Pete,
You're making absolute statements about a thing that's not actually resolved. That's the same thing many people did about LTPs for years; now, it appears that there actually are outgassings at the areas where they're seen.
Stan is an experienced observer, and is aware of all the factors you mention; and he is reporting seeing the ashen light. Doesn't it seem a little inappropriate to be telling him that he's seeing things? The most you can really say is that, in your opinion, it's an illusion.
There are more things in the world, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Keep an open mind!
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: Rick Woods]
#5195241 - 04/28/12 04:21 PM
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I wouldnt say absolute. Im open to someone making a visible light pic here of an occulted Venus showing the light. Its kind of damning that it hasnt happened yet but instead lives in the observation of visual observers - myself included.
Pete
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stanislas-jean
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/08
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: azure1961p]
#5195331 - 04/28/12 05:34 PM
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Any body knows that the IR portion is not accessible to human eye. However,, something is recorded and this is not an illusion. You pre-suppose a reason that is not verified a new time. The features that some had recorded over the 1 micrometer wavelength is also a nightmare because the average ground temperature was measured to be 470 degree celsius sothat at 1micrometer the IR light is quasi null in theory (the black body emissivity).
You need a 1.5-1.7 micrometer capable sensor to reach such average temperature.
So what can be the cause, some volcanic activity, with a full recorded "dark" lighted disk that must be black with hot features recorded. This is not this because it is recorded a defined dark side disk. Therefore it should be existing some transformation of energy by an unknown electro chemical mechanism, thermoluminescence, electroluminescence,... for capturing this dark side at 1 micrometer but what is the vector for this?
The illusion is here.
Somebody here said that if the green light is recorded (in relation with a O3 filter) this should involve the upper atmospheric layers and this is a seducing reason, but here also nobody knows why and how.
Reason Pete to pursiue the follow-up for catching 2 kinds of phenomena in green and red light that seems to be on different causes.
This is more actual (to recall here that venus orbiter catched sometimes the green light at a low level, but few only so suspected).
Stanislas-Jean
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azure1961p
Postmaster
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: stanislas-jean]
#5195445 - 04/28/12 07:24 PM
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Visually anyway I dont believe color filters would say anything one way or the other if infact its illusary. I think Ive said all Im going to here. I wont post again , thanks for reading my points of view here too.
Good observing.
Edited by azure1961p (04/28/12 07:25 PM)
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stanislas-jean
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/08
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Re: Venus ashen light last 25th
[Re: azure1961p]
#5196624 - 04/29/12 01:59 PM
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In spite of our different vews on subjects, I think it is valuable to get this exchanges.
This helps to modify me something in a certain way.
Stanislas-Jean
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