joelimite
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/01/08
Loc: Fayetteville, AR
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Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
#5341669 - 07/29/12 01:33 PM
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I'm looking for a higher magnification binocular to compliment my 10x50 Nikon AEs. I'll be using them with a Orion Paragon HD-F2 tripod. Basically, I want something with more mag for close-up views of open clusters, nebulae, asterisms, etc.
I've heard nothing but good things about both the Pentaxes and the Oberwerk Ultra series. I like the higher magnification and minimal weight of the Pentaxes, but I'm a little concerned about the narrow 2.2 degree FOV. I've also read they might show some color on the moon and other bright objects.
The Oberwerks sound fantastic, too. I like their large FOV, but they're a bit heavy and I wonder how my Paragon mount would handle them. I also worry the magnification is a little too close to the Nikons I have now.
I previously owned and sold a Garrett Optical 20x80 LW binocular. They weren't sharp enough at the edge of the field and, after six months of ownership, lost collimation. I want a high-quality binocular that will hold collimation and am willing to pay more this time to get that.
Any recommendations on which way to go?
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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/25/10
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: joelimite]
#5341784 - 07/29/12 02:49 PM
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Two different price ranges, the Obies are more money, the same binocular can be found with several names on it,Stellarvue, Orion, Garret etc, I would be inclined to shop around for the best price and the best price in shipping.
One thing though is that they are heavy and have individual focus.The Pentax have fine optics however the narrow FOV is annoying, I own the same bino in the 8x40 size and find the same applies to that, great optics but like looking through a straw. myself I would lean towards the Obies,DA.
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hallelujah
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/14/06
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: joelimite]
#5341821 - 07/29/12 03:15 PM
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http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2584702/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/vc/1
Stan
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F.Meiresonne
Post Laureate
Reged: 12/22/03
Loc: Eeklo,Belgium
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: hallelujah]
#5341942 - 07/29/12 04:27 PM
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The obie (BA8) is indeed a plendid binocular. Excellent contrast , it's heavy but can still be used handholded for short period of times. I wonder if that is possible with the Pentax ,not cause of the weight but the magnification. And the narrow FOV is not very applealing at least not to me. No i would choose the Obie over the Pentax in this case.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: F.Meiresonne]
#5342056 - 07/29/12 05:27 PM
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I rate the Ultra 15x70 as a much better choice over the Pentax 20x60. The Pentax has excellent field sharpness, but it does so because it has such an extreme narrow field of view. The Ultra has almost 3x the area of equal field sharpness.
The 15x70 Ultra is about the maximum you could comfortably mount on an HD-F2
edz
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Goodchild
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/31/08
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: EdZ]
#5342544 - 07/29/12 10:53 PM
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I was out last night looking at the moon with my Canon 10x30 IS, Nikon 10x50 AE and my Orion Resolux 15x70. I'll never part with my Canon's, period. But I was surprised at how well the Nikon's held up compared to the Orion's. Yes, the Orion's had more magnification but the image seemed a tad softer than the Nikon's. Add to this the weight of the Orion's and I may just prefer the Nikon's. My plan is to permanently mount the Orion's on my SkyWindow and use the others for quicker, more casual, views.
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charen
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/28/05
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: Goodchild]
#5342722 - 07/30/12 02:00 AM
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Clearly, get the Ultra 15x70's. The 20x60 Pentaxs are nice but restricted by their narrow FOV and dimness as a astro bino.
I have both and 90% of the time I use the Ultra's for astro use. The Pentax's I use more as a terrestrial bino.
Chris
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Man in a Tub
Postmaster
Reged: 10/28/08
Loc: Fogpatch, CA
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: charen]
#5342745 - 07/30/12 02:36 AM
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I have and enjoy both. My Garrett Optical Signature 15x70, the same binocular as Oberwerk Ultra, came first. Presently, the Pentax is the last binocular I added to my collection.
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BobinKy
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/27/07
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: Man in a Tub]
#5343037 - 07/30/12 09:37 AM
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Well, I will take up a few points in the defense of the Pentax PCF WPII 20x60 (although I do agree with what others have said about the Oberwerk Ultra / Garrett Signature 15x70).
The first point in the defense of the Pentax 20x60 continues on what Charen said about terrestrial use. The Pentax 20x60 makes a convenient substitute for a 20x spotting scope--the quality comparison depends upon the quality of the spotting scope that the Pentax 20x60 substitutes for. Yes, it has a small FOV, however, this does not seem to be such a problem when the terrestrial target is stationary and not large itself--such as a specific tree, perched bird, grazing animal, or flower. The two-barrel focusing (with the locking focus wheel) of the Pentax 20x60 is an improvement over the two individual focusing eyecups of the Signature Ultra / Signature. And now we come to the increase in magnification--the Pentax 20x60 is also an improvement over the 15x for observing of fixed terrestrial targets.
When it comes to observing the Moon, the Pentax 20x60 provides greater magnification over the Ultra / Signature 15x70, and thus you see more detail in the lunar mountains and craters.
And let us not forget the 3-lb. weight of the Pentax 20x60 versus the 5-lb. weight of the Ultra / Signature. The two additional pounds can make a big difference when hand holding for long observations or mounting on a light tripod or monopod.
What do I consider to be the best observing situations for the Pentax 20x60?
***Grab-n-go peek for the backyard and surrounding territory in broad daylight.
***On a hike with a monopod.
***Fixed observation of a hawk on a limb, heron in the shallow water, deer grazing, or wild turkey foraging at the edge of a wooded patch up to 1000 yards in the distance at anytime other than full shadows, heavily overclouded, or twilight.
***Substitute for a spotting scope on a trip.
***Observation of the Moon, which is a very bright object when the reduced exit pupil of the Pentax 20x60 is quite fitting.
***Observation of the bright planets (Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn).
What type of observing is the Pentax 20x60 not suited to do?
***Any bird on the fly or animal on the move.
***Sweeping the terrestrial landscape or night sky.
***Low light observing situations.
***Observing individual stars, star clusters, galaxies, planetary nebula, diffusion nebula, or dark nebula in the night sky. For these type of night sky observations, the small FOV does not bother me as much as the dark views of the reduced exit pupil.
***Targets requiring a wide FOV.
While the Pentax 20x60 may not suit your immediate needs for observing "close-up views of open clusters, nebulae, asterisms," it can be a useful binocular in a collection of four or more binoculars. If all you have is a 10x50, I would join the crowd and suggest you go with a nice 15x70. However, down the road, when you are ready to add that fourth binocular (yes, we do such things), the Pentax 20x60 may enhance your observing opportunities.
I hope this helps.
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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/25/10
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: BobinKy]
#5343139 - 07/30/12 10:44 AM
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One point if you need or prefer to observe with your glasses on which has the better eye relief, the Pentax or the Obie?,DA.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: Binojunky]
#5343167 - 07/30/12 11:03 AM
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Pentax has longer eye relief, but Ultra is certainly doable. I view with glasses all the time.
edz
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: EdZ]
#5343173 - 07/30/12 11:06 AM
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I've also read they might show some color on the moon and other bright objects.
Very very few binoculars would not show color on the moon, so this is a non-issue.
edz
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joelimite
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/01/08
Loc: Fayetteville, AR
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: EdZ]
#5343204 - 07/30/12 11:24 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I hadn't considered the smaller exit pupil of the Pentax. It sounds like the Oberwerk is the way to go, at least for my needs.
Regarding your comment about color on the moon, Edz, I've never looked through a "premium" binocular before and wondered about the color correction. I guess CA is just a fact of life with binoculars because of the short focal ratio.
One last question--someone pointed out that the Oberwerk and the Garrett Optical version are essentially the same binocular. Is there any point to spending more for the GO version? Better customer service/quality control perhaps?
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: joelimite]
#5343266 - 07/30/12 11:59 AM
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When using practically any binoculars for viewing the moon, it pays to reduce the exit - pupil to around 2mm or 1.5mm by fitting aperture masks.
The greatly increased focal ratio will sharpen the image and all but nullify any CA / false colour problems caused by short focal ratio.
Kenny
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BobinKy
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/27/07
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: joelimite]
#5343279 - 07/30/12 12:04 PM
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Quote:
One last question--someone pointed out that the Oberwerk and the Garrett Optical version are essentially the same binocular. Is there any point to spending more for the GO version? Better customer service/quality control perhaps?
Ah! Many a post has been submitted over this sticky wicket--where to buy your Chinese binoculars? As good as anything, why not call the two online vendors (Kevin at Oberwerk, Zach at Garrett) and go with the one that strikes your fancy.
Enjoy your up and coming 15x70.
I like your astronomy photos (taken with a 80mm) at your Flickr page.
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Refractor6
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/20/04
Loc: Vancouver B.C. , Canada
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: BobinKy]
#5343445 - 07/30/12 01:34 PM
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After all these years I still have my Pentax binos 
Performance is very good on countless deep sky targets at a truly DARK SITE where contrast is supreme well sitting back in a reclining chair to take in the views.
Having a flat field of sharp stars to the edge is like having two excellent in quality eps for each eye on some of my favorite open clusters. Eye relief is good since I use my glasses with these binos. Ca around the Moon for sure but very sharp views at focus on said target.
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guangtou
sage
Reged: 03/27/10
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: Refractor6]
#5343503 - 07/30/12 02:12 PM
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I was very disappointed with Orion Resolux 15x70- I may have gotten a bad pair. The left objective had astigmatism almost in the middle of the field of view. Lots of praise for these binoculars, so I probably just had bad luck.
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F.Meiresonne
Post Laureate
Reged: 12/22/03
Loc: Eeklo,Belgium
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: guangtou]
#5343842 - 07/30/12 05:19 PM
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I was very disappointed with Orion Resolux 15x70- I may have gotten a bad pair. The left objective had astigmatism almost in the middle of the field of view. Lots of praise for these binoculars, so I probably just had bad luck.
That might happen IMO. There was here even a review of a 22x85 Helios Apollo with very bad spherical abberation. On SGL (UK forum) i read once about a 22x85 with two totally different coated objectives (and cleary detectable)...makes you wonder about QC
Fortunately mine are OK, especially the 15x70 ...just love them...
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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/25/10
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: F.Meiresonne]
#5343904 - 07/30/12 06:01 PM
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Regarding price, you may save a few bucks with one vendor only to find they charge more for shipping and handling than say another, DA.
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hallelujah
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/14/06
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains
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Re: Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II versus Oberwerk Ultra 15x70
[Re: BobinKy]
#5343969 - 07/30/12 06:31 PM
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What type of observing is the Pentax 20x60 not suited to do?
***Any bird on the fly or animal on the move.
***Sweeping the terrestrial landscape or night sky.
***Low light observing situations.
***Observing individual stars, star clusters, galaxies, planetary nebula, diffusion nebula, or dark nebula in the night sky. For these type of night sky observations, the small FOV does not bother me as much as the dark views of the reduced exit pupil.
***Targets requiring a wide FOV.
While the Pentax 20x60 may not suit your immediate needs for observing "close-up views of open clusters, nebulae, asterisms,"
Bob,
Your "not suited to do list" has me stumped. 
I have used my 30x80 to watch birds in flight. Just depends upon the distance to the target.
I have used higher magnification than 20x for sweeping the landscape as well as sweeping the night sky.
As far as observing the night sky goes:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/2584702/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/vc/1
"All in all not a bad few hours of viewing. 13 globulars, 1 galaxy, 5 open clusters, 2 nebula and at least a half dozen different close doubles. This was a rather enjoyable session!"
edz
Stan
Edited by hallelujah (07/30/12 07:09 PM)
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