jshine
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Rochester, MN, USA
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Last year I wrote a web application that uses the Google Maps API & a map of North American light pollution from the Dark Sky Association to provide a guide to potential dark observing sites in the US. I also incorporated a database where users could mark & annotate their own favorite sites:
http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/
I posted this to another forum on CN at the time, and it's been online for maybe 8-9 months now. Unfortunately, as a graduate student I just don't have the time to devote to maintaining & improving this site. There are some additional useful features that I'd like to implement, but just don't have the time for... I do think it's a potentially useful resource though, and I'd hate to see it languish.
If anyone knows of a person or organization that might be interested in taking over this application, I'd be more than happy to release what I currently have in an open-source format under a public license like the GPL.
Thanks,
Jon
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Last year I wrote a web application that uses the Google Maps API & a map of North American light pollution from the Dark Sky Association to provide a guide to potential dark observing sites in the US. I also incorporated a database where users could mark & annotate their own favorite sites:
http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/
I do think it's a potentially useful resource though, and I'd hate to see it languish.
It's an exceedingly useful resource. I have a few questions:
- Have you approached Atilla Danko, of the Clear Sky Chart? It seems right up his alley.
- Do you plan to keep the site that you currently have? It's great even without improvements.
- Do you mind if major websites (e.g. Sky & Telescope, where I work) link to it? Can you handle the increased traffic?
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 44028
Loc: montana
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Tony, great suggestion for contacting Atilla! This would be a great added feature to the CSC.
Carol
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
Garrett 20x80 TWP setup
DreamCatcher Dobservatory
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 44028
Loc: montana
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Jon, we can't thank you enough for all the work you have put into this project, I know someone will carry the "passed torch", so your work will not be in vain!
Carol
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
Garrett 20x80 TWP setup
DreamCatcher Dobservatory
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veebs2
special label
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 296
Loc: DeKalb, IL
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Jon,
I just played with your application for a few minutes. Great job! Very easy to use!
--------------------
Paul
Zhumell 10" (My Mistress - name given by my wife)
Hyperions - 5mm, 13mm and 24mm
Stratus - 8mm and 17mm
Howie Glatter 2"-1 1/4" Holograpic w/ Barlow
Lumicon OIII Filter
Telrad
DeKalb, IL
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jshine
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Rochester, MN, USA
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It's hosted professionally, so bandwidth isn't a problem, but my hosting company gives me about 2,048 GB of transfer per month. I'm not sure what kind of traffic an S&T mention would bring, but as long as it's not dramatically larger than that number, I'd welcome the attention.
The code for site itself was designed to scale well (I think I tested it into the tens or hundreds of thousands of marked observing sites), so it's unlikely your readers would overload the SQL database that runs it.
-Jon
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jshine
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Rochester, MN, USA
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Quote:
[LIST]Have you approached Atilla Danko, of the Clear Sky Chart? It seems right up his alley.
I'll look into this. I tried approaching the Intl. Dark Sky Association, but that didn't seem like it was going anywhere.
Thanks for the pointer!
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AleX`G
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/29/06
Posts: 877
Loc: Scotland UK
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Very nice I did something like this for the UK last year but it didnt really work out very well. I had problems with overlaying the images so they would be over the correct parts of the country. I thought it may have been a projection issue as I think I was using a satelite image.
Like this
http://www.roe.ac.uk/roe/support/pr/pressreleases/070117-darkskylaunch/darksky01.jpg
Did you encounter simmilar problems with your implementation?
Alex
--------------------
-------------------------
Celestron/Vixen 102 f9.8
Vixen GP
Canon EF300mm f4L USM (non IS)
Canon 300D
-------------------------
Never express yourself more clearly than you think. - Niels Bohr
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jshine
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Rochester, MN, USA
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Quote:
Very nice I did something like this for the UK last year but it didnt really work out very well. I had problems with overlaying the images so they would be over the correct parts of the country. I thought it may have been a projection issue as I think I was using a satelite image.
Like this
http://www.roe.ac.uk/roe/support/pr/pressreleases/070117-darkskylaunch/darksky01.jpg
Did you encounter simmilar problems with your implementation?
Alex
I was extremely lucky in the sense that the map I downloaded (from an Italian research team) had the same projection as the map that Google uses. In your case (and bear in mind that I'm not a cartographer either), you could try applying a 2-D transformation matrix:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformation_matrix#Examples_in_2D_graphics
This would be easily accomplished in Matlab (expensive, but commonly found in universities). I'm not sure it would work -- I'd have to read more about the particulars of the projections in question -- but my intuition says it should.
Since the team that I downloaded my image from also has maps for Europe, Asia, S. America, etc., I would like to extend my site's functionality to those areas as well. ...but with all the projects that I have to work on as part of my degree, I don't have time to make those modifications. 
-Jon
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
[LIST]Have you approached Atilla Danko, of the Clear Sky Chart? It seems right up his alley.
I'll look into this.
Oh yes. The other obvious organization to approach is Google itself. They have no shortage of programmers!
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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jshine
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Rochester, MN, USA
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Quote:
Oh yes. The other obvious organization to approach is Google itself. They have no shortage of programmers!
I actually did send them a note on their "business proposal" input form. There aren't many channels that we mere peasants can use to reach a programmer on their site, but that seemed like the best choice among the few choices available.
It also seems like it would be right up their alley. Someone at Google must have an Astronomy fetish:
http://www.google.com/mars/
http://www.google.com/moon/
This would be the ideal solution since it is their code I'm using. A thorough treatment by Google would probably make it much faster & more stable -- not to mention the added exposure that the light pollution issue would receive.
It's too bad that the map layer I'm using is a one-off thing. It was obtained for a research paper (http://www.inquinamentoluminoso.it/cinzano/download/0108052.pdf) & is not being updated, but in principle these maps could be updated each year without much trouble. Perhaps if a larger site like Google got involved, that might actually happen.
-Jon
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
in principle these maps could be updated each year without much trouble
Wow, wouldn't that be cool? They're seriously out of date by now in some fast-growing regions. And I'm pretty sure there are flaws in Cinzano's model and methodology that could be fixed, too.
I've thought of taking that job on myself; all the underlying data is in the public domain. But the task is really pretty overwhelming.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Sirius76
super member
Reged: 05/11/07
Posts: 128
Loc: Chicago, Il
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Jon,
I just have to say that you did a fantastic job! I've been looking for something just like this for quite some time.
Looking for new sites I always go back and forth between Google maps and clearskyclock lightpollution maps. This combines the both!
Again, congratulations on a job well done!
Edited by Sirius76 (05/21/08 04:14 PM)
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jshine
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Rochester, MN, USA
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Quote:
I've thought of taking that job on myself; all the underlying data is in the public domain. But the task is really pretty overwhelming.
If you do, drop me a line. (So many projects, so little time...)
I was actually under the impression that obtaining the data required to generate this map required a special arrangement with the Defense Meteorological Satellites Program (DMSP). If there was a regularly-updated source of raw data, I would be willing to write some sort of import program to process it into an image or map-layer.
I have to admit that I have a form of programmer's attention deficit disorder: it's much easier for me to attack a new challenge than to maintain & improve a working program... ;-)
-Jon
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Elektronkind
member
Reged: 06/10/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Silver Spring, MD
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FWIW I run my own co-located server with unlimited transit, even IPv6 connectivity. It backs up nightly to a server on the west coat.
So, if this still needs a home, I'd happily give it a virtual host.
/dale
--------------------
Orion XT10i + Telerad
WO Megrez 90 APO
Astro-Physics Mach1GTO
WO EZTouch mount (AYO version)
TeleVue Nagler 3.5T6, 7T6, 22T4
Coronado PST (Hα)
Canon Digital Rebel XTi
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jshine
member
Reged: 07/26/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Rochester, MN, USA
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Quote:
FWIW I run my own co-located server with unlimited transit, even IPv6 connectivity. It backs up nightly to a server on the west coat.
So, if this still needs a home, I'd happily give it a virtual host.
/dale
Thanks, I appreciate the offer. I don't mind hosting it myself -- I've got server space. What I am looking for was someone who liked the idea enough to take it & run with it -- enhance the application, continue adding new featuers & updates as the Google Maps API changes, etc. ...basically, an astronomically-oriented web developer.
As far as giving it bandwidth & a "home on the web" is concerned, I don't mind doing that part. It just lives along side a some of my other pages that are of less general interest, and it generally doesn't consume much bandwidth.
-Jon
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purpleseeker
member
Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Colorado
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WOW! ! !
I'd just like to thank you for the fantastic work.
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TrippinReason
newbie
Reged: 03/11/08
Posts: 3
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This is great! Giving you some props for a job well done! Do you have a website where we can be kept up to date on other programs you're working on?
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JakeT93
member
Reged: 06/28/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Williamstown, NJ
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Great! Now I know what Bortle the Poconos are in, a very nice dark yellow, about2 2-3 scales darker then me! 
--------------------
-Jake the Snake
My equipment:
Orion DSE 10" Light Bucket!
10x50 Finder and ebay bracket
40mm GSO Plossl
32mm Celestron Plossl
2x Antares Barlow
25mm and 6.7mm Meade 3000 Plossls
Orion Explorer II 10mm and 17mm Kellners
Orion SkyGlow Ultrablock
Antares ND25
75 M's Obsreved
All Planets seen
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Great! Now I know what Bortle the Poconos are in, a very nice dark yellow, about2 2-3 scales darker then me!
Just to clarify -- there is no relationship between the Bortle scale and the colored zones in the World Atlas of Light Pollution. A crude correlation was done once by the North Virginia Astronomy Club, and by typical Web carelessness, this got picked up by two very well-known sites: Wikipedia and the Clear Sky Chart. But the correlation was never intended for this purpose, and is crude at best and (I would argue) pretty seriously wrong in a number of cases.
If you want to use the colored zones -- which I recommend -- it's best to avoid any mention of the Bortle classes.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 2274
Loc: The TV/SV Wolfpack
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Excellent resource, Jon.
Your application confirms my fears. I live in a red zone about 2-3 miles from the white.
*sigh*
--------------------
Kit
'Don’t worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God’s wondrous universe.' - Thomas M Back
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Brooklyn
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 870
Loc: Central New Jersey
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UGH!!! i am located in a RED ZONE!!
Central new jersey isn't really great for astronomy. At least I'm not located in a white zone 
Also, a dark site with light polluted skies is better than not having a dark site with stray light coming in, with less light pollutants.
--------------------
Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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WNCAGC
sage
Reged: 06/25/08
Posts: 259
Loc: NC Mountains (God's country)
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Near red zone for me but I have places to drive to that are quite dark.
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CPC 1100 XLT "The Big Monster"
Power Tank 17
NexImager
2" Smart Astronomy 10:1 dual speed Crayford focuser
2" Smart Astronomy Dielectric diagonal
2" Smart Astronomy 2x Barlow
2" Baader SCOPOS 35 mm prototype EP
Baader Hyperion zoom EP 8-24mm
Celestron dew shield
Bob's Knobs
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Octavarium
member
Reged: 08/02/08
Posts: 62
Loc: East Haven, CT
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All red with surrounding orange 10+ miles away. Lousy CT!
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Meade ETX-125PE
Series 4000 plossol eyepiece/filter set
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IngramDW
newbie
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 1
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Jshine,
Tell me more about the finder.
What kind of reply have you received from IDA Tucson?
I am affiliated with Dark Skies Northwest @ www.scn.org/darksky
Maybe I can find help here if you are still looking for someone to take over your work.
Dave Ingram 206-372-7292
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NyxAither
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 1269
Loc: Arlington VA
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Great program! I live in the middle of a the Washington DC white zone. I have land in Columbia VA which is barely in the blue.
--------------------
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/showgallery.php/ppuser/169/cat/500
✸Orion XT8i✸Orion80-T✸CG5 GT✸Meade DSI II✸Meade DSI(TY TODD N!!!)✸Orion 4.5" Reflector✸Mac Powerbook G4✸10x50 binocs✸SPC900NC✸
Thomas
..::*~*Clear Skies*~*::..
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Startraffic
member
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 14
Loc: Maryland
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Thomas,
I know the feeling. I'm up in Gaithersburg. I took my son out camping over in Haymarket & he asked "What's that white thing up there dad?" I said "That's the Milky Way son. You can't see it at home because of the street lights." He said "Oh, that sucks. It's pretty cool looking."
I found a place out in WV Spruce Knob Nat'l Park that has camping and is DARK. I think he & I will go there so he can really see some stars, get his wilderness camping badge, & Astronomy pin. Typically we only get mag 4-5 on a good moonless night.
Star. 
--------------------
DS114 wi Autostar
8" Vixen R200SS
Vixen GP mount wi MT-1
10" Meade LXD55 wi Autostar
14.5" f8 Bent Cassegrain OTA Under Construction.
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Ptarmigan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 2702
Loc: Arctic
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I just accessed the site and I get this message:
Quote:
This Domain (gailknopp.com) Has Been Disabled
For information on restoring your account please call customer service as soon as possible
When/If you call our support help line, please have your site name ready.
--------------------
Ptarmigans=Cute and Cuddly
Meade Starfinder 8
Nikon 10x50
Rebel XT
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mccambjd
member
Reged: 10/24/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Swarthmore, PA
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For more LP info, look at this CN thread in the Beginners Forum
--------------------
Jim
LX200GPS 203 mm
PST
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STiMULi
member
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
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Quote:
Last year I wrote a web application that uses the Google Maps API & a map of North American light pollution from the Dark Sky Association to provide a guide to potential dark observing sites in the US.
Thanks very much for an excellent site!
--------------------
Scott
Click here for Current Tucson SkyCast
Celestron CPC 800 "TIME MACHINE"
Tuned by Starizona
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Sirquack
sage
Reged: 05/03/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Iowa
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Just came across this thread, great website... I'm right on a pinkish/yellow zone, but within 20 min to green and 30+ to blue...
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CPC 1100 XLT
8" DIY DOB
Garrett Optical SWA's 15,20mm 1.25" 26,32,38mm 2"
Celestron 10mm, 40mm E-lux Plossls 1.25"
Meade 26mm Super Plossl 1.25"
Celestron 2x Barlow and Diag 1.25"
GSO Dielectric Diag 2"
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Hoondiggi95
member
Reged: 04/22/09
Posts: 34
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Cool!!! My neighborhood has the worst possible light pollution!!! 
Btw great job on the program! 
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MrKrink
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/20/09
Posts: 610
Loc: Lawndale NC, USA
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That is a really great resource and I like the way it is set up, I would hate to see it gone. You have done a really great job with it.
--------------------
Stuart
CGEM 8"EdgeHD (The NightStalker!)
Baader 8-24mm HypZoom
Ultima 2X Apo Barlow
Nikon D90
McDaniel Astro Research Site (M.A.R.S.)
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greenglass
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/22/06
Posts: 557
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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I'm in the Great White North (Canada), 1 mile from the centre of a white patch, in a white patch and the sky does look yellow-brown in all directions. Ew. When it snows it is quite bright at night. I used to be in a red zone and it was darker towards the south away from white zone.
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10" f/5 reflector
7x50 tasco binos
60/800 tasco luminova
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nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5997
Loc: London UK
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Fantastic resource - even from the other side of the pond  Is there a name for the vertical east/west light devide through USA - almost as if two nations 
Note also the Alberta oilfield LP in Canada 
--------------------
Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+e-finder+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9+Lodestar CCDs/Canon 300D DSLR/Hitachi HD+Disgo Video Fun cams
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-my videos
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veebs2
special label
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 296
Loc: DeKalb, IL
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You are correct...the vertical line east/west line is very significant. There is no geographical reason for this. I know the Western US has large areas of agricultural land.
--------------------
Paul
Zhumell 10" (My Mistress - name given by my wife)
Hyperions - 5mm, 13mm and 24mm
Stratus - 8mm and 17mm
Howie Glatter 2"-1 1/4" Holograpic w/ Barlow
Lumicon OIII Filter
Telrad
DeKalb, IL
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
You are correct...the vertical line east/west line is very significant. There is no geographical reason for this.
It coincides roughly with 100 degrees west, and it's the line between areas where crops can be grown without irrigation and areas that are traditionally rangeland -- or completely unused. A matter of precipitation.
A population map of the world today correlates extremely well with the fertility of the soil and the abundance of rainfall. A few areas (like parts of Arizona and Nevada) have been settled heavily in the post-agricultural era, but those are the exception, not the rule.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Starmon
member
Reged: 05/25/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado
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Greetings,
Great work Jon, I found your app. a while ago and added 6 sites myself. Albers had compiled a list of about 400 dark sky sites with Lat/Long. Several years ago, using ArcMap9.2 I converted the list to a .dbf and overlaid it on a georeferenced layer of Cinzano's light pollution zones in the US. Currently with the NPS, I am producing In-Situ Light Pollution Hemispheres from data taken by the Night Sky Monitoring Team. We are in the process of re-processing the data, so that it will also show JUST the light pollution, from most of the National Parks in the US (~300).
It would seem to be a very good idea to link all this great data on LP, to help reinforce our case and implement solutions. A web-ring of sorts? Dark Skies!! Shield and point those lights down.
Several of these preliminary hemisphere models have been post on the in-Situ LP Hemisphere thread.
--------------------
Think cosmic,
TomT
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Fimpster
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/24/09
Posts: 575
Loc: Gould Belt
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I'm a little late to this thread but I just found your website Jon. Excellent work! Thanks.
--------------------
~Gavin
Orion SkyQuest XT8i
Celestron CPC-800
Baader Hyperion 8|13
Celestron Axiom 10
Meade 5000 SWA 16|20|24|28|34|40
Orion Expanse 6
Assorted Plossl 10|25|40
Zhumell 1¼" EP & Filter Kit
Zhumell 2" 2x ED Barlow
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xsmatt81
sage
Reged: 02/13/08
Posts: 276
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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well damn. I feel somewhat fortunate living in las vegas. Its only an hour or two drive to get away from light pollution
after seeing the eastern seaboard on that map WOW.
--------------------
Celestron NexStar 6SE
Meade 90AZ-ADR
Various EP's
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Starmon
member
Reged: 05/25/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado
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Greetings,
I just added the Ft. Union site on the Dark Sky Finder. We found it a Bortle Class 2 site, small light dome from closest city
and flat horizon. Albuquerque's light dome is at 240*.
Check out: http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/index.php?lat=35.83228833783694&lng=-105.01419067382812&zoom=11
Dark skies,
TomT
--------------------
Think cosmic,
TomT
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blb
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/25/05
Posts: 510
Loc: Piedmont NC
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This is a great web site and I love it. I live in a white zone and our clubs dark sky site is in a yellow zone. No fun! I have a question though. How can you print out the map with the colored zones showing up? I would really like to print out our clubs site to show other members.
Thanks, Buddy
--------------------
C-11, C-6, XT10i Dob, ETX125PE, TV102, & AT66
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Starmon
member
Reged: 05/25/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado
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Overlay the Light Pollution map of Cinzano's on Google Earth, then find your location,
position it properly to suit and do a screen grab. Print that.
--------------------
Think cosmic,
TomT
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Starmon
member
Reged: 05/25/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Front Range Northern Colorado
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|
Greetings all,
I just uploaded a new Ft. Collins hemisphere to Google Earth Community.
This one lists only the Net Light Pollution. As bad as it looks, it's not a bad location,
considering how close it is to town.
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=1313486#Post1313486
--------------------
Think cosmic,
TomT
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