Ptarmigan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 2364
Loc: Arctic
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I have a lot of trees where I am. Blocks objects I want to see. I worry if a hurricane or tornado comes, they fall on houses and injure people. 
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Ptarmigans=Cute and Cuddly
Meade Starfinder 8
Nikon 10x50
Rebel XT
Edited by Ptarmigan (10/26/09 01:40 AM)
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
My view of the sky from my own back yard is pretty severely impeded by trees. I'm sorry that your uninformed impression of where I live leads you to believe I'm either at a mountain top or in a treeless high desert.
That's not the point. Your statement about stars being visible almost everywhere is intuitively correct in a state that's mostly grassland, desert, and alpine terrain. (Not to underestimate the extent of those vast lodgepole forest; I know all about them, too.) If you can't see stars from your backyard, you have innumerable other options.
But when I look for good observing spots at dark sites in the Northeast, trees are my biggest problem by far. Basically, the stars are only visible where people have been active, cutting down trees. Wilderness is unusable -- end of story.
Quote:
I would never consider removing a tree as a remedy for an inconvenience. When I decide to observe, I either deal with the trees, or take my equipment where I can see the desired part of the sky. I sure don't kill a healthy tree that's taken dozens of years to grow to resolve an inconvenience.
Odd! Then again, I heat my country home primarily with wood, so no tree that I cut down is ever wasted. And I would never cut trees in excess of what I can burn.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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I was curious about the carbon calculus for cutting down trees. I don't think that's the only consideration when making the decision -- probably not even the main one. But it's worth bearing in mind.
A Google search for "tree sequestration" yielded this site, which says that you can estimate the weight of a tree as:
W = 0.15 * D^2 * H, where
W is weight in pounds
D is diameter in inches
H is height in feet
They further estimate that about 1/3 the weight of green wood is carbon.
I'd say that a typical big hardwood -- not giant, but very substantial -- is 14 inches in diameter and 60 feet tall. A sugar maple that gets plenty of sunlight probably takes about 80 years to reach that size. This is close to the biggest tree that I feel completely comfortable cutting down with my own chainsaw; when trees get 18 inches or bigger, they need a bigger blade, and they get really scary (to me). I probably average one or two trees that size per year, yielding about a cord of firewood.
According to the website cited above, such a tree contains about 600 pounds of carbon. Gasoline has about 5.3 pounds of carbon per gallon, so cutting down a tree that size and not replacing it by another is equivalent to using 110 gallons of gasoline. That's 2,750 miles at the 25 mpg that I can now eke out of my 15-year-old car.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Thomas44
super member
Reged: 10/26/09
Posts: 101
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Quote:
I hope you will plant another tree somewhere to help the environment of the planet. I don't have a problem with doing what you did. It would be good for all of us if you planted a tree somewhere else to replace what you removed.
Right you are. Trees are so important. It does help in many ways.
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www.laserpointers.co.uk
Edited by Thomas44 (10/27/09 08:29 AM)
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kroum
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/28/08
Posts: 630
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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Tony, that doesn't include all the leaves that tree ever had.
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10in Hardin Optical Dob
100mm f6 Orion Achromat
6in Orion Short Tube Reflector
15X70 Barska Binoculars
32mm Astrola (Boo!)
25mm, 12.5mm Sterling Plossls
20mm Orion Expanse
9mm Hardin (GSO) Plossl
7.5mm Orion Ultrascopic
Ultima 2X shorty barlow
Turn on, tune in, and look through the eyepiece.
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Tony, that doesn't include all the leaves that tree ever had.
My calculation omits many important factors. For instance, burning that tree means that I burn less propane, which should be subtracted from the tree's carbon account. The carbon produced by burning gasoline in my car neglects the energy that went into producing the car in the first place, which is probably a sizeable fraction of its lifetime energy consumption.
As for the leaves, insofar as they end up in the soil, their carbon is removed from the atmosphere. But a good fraction of them decay and re-release that carbon -- some of it in the form of particularly noxious methane.
More to the point, when the tree is cut, grass and shrubs take its place. And they sequester carbon (and produce soil) too.
The crude calculation is good enough for my purposes.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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HellsKitchen
sage
Reged: 09/05/08
Posts: 356
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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If I had a tree problem, they'd be getting a date with Mr Chainsaw. Don't care for greenies and tree huggers and their inevitable tears, guilt tripping etc...my backyard my business.
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S 38º 00' E 145º20'
Custom 12" F/4.6 dob
10" GSO dob
Intes M500 Mak
4.5" Meade Newtonian
Set of Vixen LVWs + TV barlows + powermates
Astronomik 0III, UHC, H-beta filters
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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
Reged: 09/19/08
Posts: 953
Loc: Utah
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Just moved to a new house and in the backyard there are three cement pads. My wife calls them pads 1, 2 and 3. Pad 2, the central one has a young maple the previous owners had planted. I can remove it myself easily, trim it so it doesn't obstruct the sky (putting off the inevitable) or move off the pad and into the grass. My choice, take it down and plant a new tree along the back fence which is next to a public walking path. I'll also choose a tree that is limited in height so I won't face this problem again. Solves a couple of problems.
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Jay in Utah
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Location: Lat: 40.514N Long: -112.032W
Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.
— Ptolemy, c.150 AD
My Blog
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oldtimer
sage
Reged: 11/13/08
Posts: 301
Loc: NW Illinois
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Two stories:
Story 1
"A group of amateurs I know made several trips a year to a pretty dark sky site in NW Illinois. It was a state park that had a couple of camp sites that were relatively treeless. About 10 years ago the ranger began planting trees all over these sites. The astronomers beged him not too explaining their use of these sites for astronomy. The ranger replied stating that it was a forest preserve and needed trees. They even explained to him that Illinois was orginally praire land. It did no good and now the trees are so large the site cannot be used any more.
Story 2
In the 1960's a 16 F8 newt with EQ mount and dome was donated to a Jr college in central Illinois. It saw service for about 10 years then funding and trained/interested staff dried up. The pine and other trees were allowed to grow very tall and now there is only a 'silo' view overhead. The scope sits unused.
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kroum
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/28/08
Posts: 630
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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Quote:
If I had a tree problem, they'd be getting a date with Mr Chainsaw. Don't care for greenies and tree huggers and their inevitable tears, guilt tripping etc...my backyard my business.
So naturally, none of you guys with this oppinion would mind if your next door neighbor installed flood lights and pointed them at your observing site  His backyard, his business.
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10in Hardin Optical Dob
100mm f6 Orion Achromat
6in Orion Short Tube Reflector
15X70 Barska Binoculars
32mm Astrola (Boo!)
25mm, 12.5mm Sterling Plossls
20mm Orion Expanse
9mm Hardin (GSO) Plossl
7.5mm Orion Ultrascopic
Ultima 2X shorty barlow
Turn on, tune in, and look through the eyepiece.
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Tom Polakis
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/20/04
Posts: 769
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
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What a delightful thread. I have to admit that one of the criteria for selection of my house back in 1993 was minimal light trespass. Before I even made an offer, I recognized that I would have a decent view of the entire sky from a spot that was occupied by a giant, mature grapefruit tree. So I knew what had to be done.
During my fist month in the house, I took every night of a week to remove the tree. I didn't get a perverse thrill out of chopping down a tree, but I don't feel any shame about it, either.
Since 1993, I have observed near the submerged stump of that tree more than 1000 nights. Backyard astronomy is the best, even under a magnitude-4.5 sky.
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Tom Polakis
Tempe, AZ
Visual observing, DSLR photography, lunar & planetary imaging
http://www.pbase.com/polakis/
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earthbot1
super member
Reged: 08/27/09
Posts: 181
Loc: Central Virginia
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Trees can also block light pollution. I have a few young trees coming up naturally, so I need to decide now which will stay or go. I like trees very much and there are tons of them in Virginia. I think many of them near me help catch the city lights so it is not so bad at my house.
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Nexstar 8
Meade/Celestron EPs
Bushnell 90mm Mak-Cass
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mich_al
super member
Reged: 05/10/09
Posts: 125
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Closest thing I've seen to a flame war on this site.
Your trees are your business but personally there aren't many things that would make me cut down a healthy tree. My house has lots of trees and every year I plant dozens more.
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Cygnus_x1
Sketcher Extraordinaire
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: 50N - too far north!
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We are bordered by a load of oak trees, the remnants of a wood before some nearby houses were built in it around 25 years ago (the wood was not completely cut down, just the centre removed to accommodate these ten or so houses). They do obscure my northern and eastern skies somewhat, but I can live with that as they also obscure any light pollution from the neighbour's house plus they mean we get lots of different birds and animals and I like that.
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Visual Deep Sky Observing - NEW website
Observing blog
My astronomy event photos on Flickr
12 inch Dob
8 inch Celestron C8 Newtonian
4 inch Meade SCT
8x42 Leica binoculars
Various TeleVue eyepieces
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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
Reged: 09/19/08
Posts: 953
Loc: Utah
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Just got in from trimming that tree . . . it doesn't harm the view to the west YET. When that day comes, out it goes. I did planet the same maple also today in another part of the yard that doesn't impact my viewing.
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Jay in Utah
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Location: Lat: 40.514N Long: -112.032W
Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.
— Ptolemy, c.150 AD
My Blog
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Footbag
sage
Reged: 04/13/09
Posts: 468
Loc: Scranton, PA
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I just payed $1500 to have a bunch of tree work done. I didn't do it primarily for observing, but it was always in the back of my mind. My biggest concern was having them fall on my house or car and they were huge trees.
I had a huge dead oak tree removed and another huge half dead tree trimmed back. Then I had a bunch of invasive trees removed because the were blocking Polaris.
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Adam
Celestron CPC 800, Celestron HD Wedge
Hyperion 17mm, Celestron 40mm Plossl, TMB 9mm
WO 66, SSAG
Modded Canon XS
Lackawanna Astronomical Society
My Gallery
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Matt Lindsey
member
Reged: 06/06/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Baltimore, MD, U.S.A.
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I'm reading "The Georgian Star" by Michael D. Lemonick on William and Caroline Herschel. Apparently after moving to a new property to construct his largest scope, Herschel did a little tree hacking of his own. As the former property owner, Mrs. Papendieck, observed: "his first step, to the grief of everyone who knew the sweet spot, was to cut down every tree, so that there should be no impediment to his observations of the heavenly bodies."
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Matt
12" f/4.9 custom strut Dob.
8x56 binos
Member: Howard Astronomical League
Working on: Herschel I and II lists, RASC challenge objects.
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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This thread inspired me to write a blog on the subject on the Sky & Telescope website.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1281
Loc: Macomb Michigan
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Just need to strike a balance between trees and open space. Plenty of trees here in Michigan and the loss of open fields is somewhat a problem. Areas that were open when I was young are now overgrown. Within a 1 mile radius around our home in the northern part of the state there is only 1 place clear enough to observe. I like trees but don't understand the need to preserve every one of them. Like all living things they grow then die and another grows to take it's place. If a tree is blocking my view and I have no other option I will cut it down.
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Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
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94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 721
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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Quote:
This thread inspired me to write a blog on the subject on the Sky & Telescope website.
Very entertaining Tony.. 
I am considering some tree trimming in my own backyard for a tree that pretty much completely blocks my view to the south. I personally don't really like the idea of cutting down or killing perfectly heathly trees, but I certainly wouldn't be so bold as to tell other people what they should do on their own property. That seems to be the problem today, many people think they know what is "best" for everybody, in every situation.
Ken
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Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
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