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arpruss
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: Waco, TX
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Most of you know this hint by now, but it took me about a year to figure out, so I thought I'd share it. There are a lot of three-screw adjustments in astro equipment, such as primary and secondary collimation, laser collimator adjusment, and finder brackets. For a long time I found this very difficult. Until I figured out this simple protocol.
Suppose you're using a laser to collimate the primary (the same method should work for all the other three-screw situations). You want to move the return beam spot to the center. You go through all the collimation screws one by one. You can move the screw a bit in any direction to observe the line along which the screw moves the laser spot, and then turn the screw until the spot is on the point of the line closest to the center. Then go on to the next screw. If one's lucky, then after having done all three screws, one will be close enough. If not, one just continues the process. At each step one gets closer, so there is constant progress.
This is so obvious that I'm a bit embarrassed to post it. But I tell my students that if they don't understand something, probably they're not alone, and they should ask a question in class. So, I'm guessing that if it took me a long time to figure this out, some others might benefit. :-)
I think there were three reasons it took me a long time to figure out:
1. The whole business of moving along three non-perpendicular axes is innately confusing for those of us with a habit of thinking in Cartesian coordinates.
2. The confusion was increased by the fact that my collimator doesn't project a spot but a cross, which makes one want to align along the cross's axes, instead of just making the cross's center go to the right place.
3. I often haphazardly tried to guess: "Which screw do I need to turn to fix this?" The amount of time spent trying to guess is wasted (unless one has enough experience with the particular scope that one can just see it right away). Instead, one just systematically optimizes each screw in turn (say, going clockwise around). (Actually, I sometimes still do the haphazard guessing, because I am too lazy to go systematically around.)
-------------------- Coulter Odyssey 13.1" split-tube
Coulter Odyssey 8"
Home-made 7.8" F/4 dobsonian travel scope
Home-made 68mm F/5.3 achro (typically used as finder on 13.1")
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
32mm Plossl, 30mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, 13mm Hyperion, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
You go through all the collimation screws one by one. You can move the screw a bit in any direction to observe the line along which the screw moves the laser spot, and then turn the screw until the spot is on the point of the line closest to the center. Then go on to the next screw.
Actually, with collimation, it's best to use only two of the three screws. Otherwise, you'll find that over time, the mirror "walks" forward or backward until the screws bottom out. Best to have one screw that you never touch.
Finderscopes, unfortunately, aren't so easy, because with the old-fashioned 6-screw mount, all the screws need to be tight to hold it in place. So using two out of three screws (front or back) simply isn't an option. I hate those 6-screw brackets!
-------------------- Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 3616
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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OR------- you can just look at this page.
http://home.comcast.net/~astrophoto/Articles/Collimation.htm
-------------------- LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s-- www.texasastro.org
"Great minds discuss ideas;Average minds discuss events;Small minds discuss people." Unknown
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
   
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12732
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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I don't have a problem with the 3 screw collimation.
What I DO have a problem with is those that I have to loosen 2 to tighten 1 (ie: Finders!) Those get me the most. When I finally get it lined up, I then have to figure out how to TIGHTEN them all without loosing collimation! Pain in the rump!
-------------------- Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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panhard
Mongo
   
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5223
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
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Quote:
OR------- you can just look at this page.
http://home.comcast.net/~astrophoto/Articles/Collimation.htm
Will that also work for a newtonion?
--------------------
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 3616
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Never tried it on a DOB-- do it and report the results. Might work on the secondary.
-------------------- LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s-- www.texasastro.org
"Great minds discuss ideas;Average minds discuss events;Small minds discuss people." Unknown
Edited by Joe Lalumia (11/03/09 02:24 PM)
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
   
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 3301
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Finder Scopes....I use the rubber band trick all the time! Around one screw, bypass the second screw on the way round the finder and loop around the third screw. Loosen screw #2 and the rubber band pulls the finder up against the other screws. Adjust with those two and when aligned, tighten screw #2 to hold it in place.
-------------------- Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
"Nobody get's in to see the WIZARD, Not Nobody, Not Nohow"
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arpruss
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: Waco, TX
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So it looks like there are other methods, and maybe better ones. I am still thinking that the three-screw method is likely to converge faster than the two-screw method, unless one is experienced enough to do it with just two turns. If it means that eventually one runs out of screws, well that's easy to fix just by giving the same number of turns to each, and the increased speed of convergence in each collimation may compensate for having to readjust the screws every five collimations, say. But maybe I should do some computer simulations before saying that.
I guess the method doesn't work well for adjusting cylindrical things (finders or laser modules inside laser collimators) held by three screws from all sides, one uses rubber bands or maybe springs. My own finders are all mounted on alt-az mounts, so they adjust very quickly.
-------------------- Coulter Odyssey 13.1" split-tube
Coulter Odyssey 8"
Home-made 7.8" F/4 dobsonian travel scope
Home-made 68mm F/5.3 achro (typically used as finder on 13.1")
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
32mm Plossl, 30mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, 13mm Hyperion, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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David Castillo
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/09/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Carmel Valley, Ca
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I've found that a 2 screw adjustment is about the most efficient method of adjusting collimation. I think the way you approach collimation will go through a lot of batteries in your lazer collimator. ---- Dave
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panhard
Mongo
   
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5223
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
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Joe I have a scope here to collimate it is a way off. I am going to try that method to see if it will work on a dob.
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Edited by panhard (11/04/09 07:24 PM)
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arpruss
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: Waco, TX
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Quote:
I've found that a 2 screw adjustment is about the most efficient method of adjusting collimation. I think the way you approach collimation will go through a lot of batteries in your lazer collimator.
I think that if one knows exactly which axis each screw controls, one can be very efficient with the two screw method. One just uses one screw to move the spot to be on the axis controlled by the other screw, and then the other screw pushes it home. But I find it too difficult to remember how the positions of the screws on the bottom of the scope are correlated to the directions on the viewing window of the collimator. So if I were to use two-screw collimation, I'd use one screw to push the spot as close as possible to the center, and continue alternating screws until sufficient convergence occurred.
So for me it's probably faster to just go through the screws one by one. I do primary collimation on my F/4.5 13" usually in about 2 minutes (unless it's so decollimated that the spot is very far away from the viewing window), on my F/4 8" in about 20 seconds (it's a lot faster because instead of using the small viewing window on the laser, I align the outgoing and incoming crosses right on the surface of the secondary, and I have super-stiff collimation springs so it's a lot closer each time) and on my F/4.5 8" in about 5 minutes (it's not tool-free, and it's a push-pull system--I just bought knobs and a threaded rod to make it tool-free, though).
I'm on my second set of collimator batteries in a year. It uses two LR44s, which sell for about $2 for a pack of ten on dealextreme.
-------------------- Coulter Odyssey 13.1" split-tube
Coulter Odyssey 8"
Home-made 7.8" F/4 dobsonian travel scope
Home-made 68mm F/5.3 achro (typically used as finder on 13.1")
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
32mm Plossl, 30mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, 13mm Hyperion, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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stefanj
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/15/07
Posts: 1755
Loc: Western New York State
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Another trick I learned on this here website (worth the price of admission!) is to collimatethe primary by LOOSENING the 2 screws- I first tighten all three screws (ok maybe tighten is a bit harsh- I snug all three screws to the tightened position) then back off 2 of them to collimate- I never run out of screw length as I'm usually lossening on and tightening the other.
-------------------- Life is a circus- and I'm stuck in the FREAK TENT
If these are blue- it means the moon is full!
Meade ETX 90RA w/ tripod
Meade AZ 70 (now solar)
Meade DS 2130 AT
Zhumell 10" Dob
Simmons 10x50 Binoculars
GLPx8
LPI
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