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Tim A.
sage
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 246
Loc: 40 30'N 105 3'W
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Quote:
In my opinion it's because we (as a society) are regressing into the dark ages where the appeal of blind zeal is more effective than than intellectual debate.
It may well be, as dvNt and my brother would agree, that we're on a hideous down slope.
I afford myself the probably unwarranted optimism that things eventually and always trend to the better. History has its ups and downs (to say the least), but I hold hope that eventually reason and science will regain ascendancy and humanity will realize even high achievements than we have seen so far.
But I will agree that the schools are failing our children. I owe my success, modest as it is, to my teachers from first grade onward. They always believed I was capable of more, even when my performance on any given day would belie it. Their faith propelled me all the way through graduate school in the theoretical mathematics of computation.
My stepson's experience was, by contrast, horrifying. His graduation from "high" school was, in my private thoughts, a joke; a travesty to the level of education I had attained by then. He had no knowledge of history or mathematics, a totally non-functional command of Spanish, and only a slightly better fluency in English. He didn't know the word "trigonometry", much less its applications. He had not the slightest feel for the sweep of history, much less its effect on the present. He does not lack for native ability, but the system failed him long before I came into his life and could intervene in any meaningful way.
So I take my telescope out to the schools, and I whisper in the ears of the youngsters, "Do you see the ball of stars? Can you count them? No, there are thousands and thousand of them. Each one is a sun like our own. Maybe one has a planet like Earth, where some little girl may be looking this way? Do you think so? What would you tell her about us? What would you ask her?"
And sometimes, the answers drop my jaw.
Youth is, someone said, wasted on the young. It certainly was in my case. Or rather I should say, I was wasted during it. Texting and twittering and all manner of silliness preoccupy today's young men and women. I had my own versions of preoccupations (including the ever-popular sex, drugs, and rock-&-roll), and look how I turned out. Um, wait, don't.
Oh, hell, I don't know much. I know that when I turn my eyes to the night sky, I am given a taste of eternity, a morsel of infinity, and a hint of immortality.
Ptolemy said, long ago, "Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth."
When a boy or girl has an eye at my telescope and utters that soft "... wow ...", my feet no longer touch the earth.
-- Tim
Colorado
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F/5 12.5" Dob (Starbucket)
Celestron CPC800
Celestron CR-150 HD on CG5-GT
Galileoscope
Oberwerk Deluxe II 20x80 & Ultra 10x50
Celestron Regal LX 8x42 (gone AWOL)
Bio-binoculars 1x6
"Me? Crazy? Oh, yeah. Crazy like an ox!"
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mwedel
super member
Reged: 12/16/07
Posts: 185
Loc: Claremont, CA
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Quote:
Ptolemy said, long ago, "Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth."
When a boy or girl has an eye at my telescope and utters that soft "... wow ...", my feet no longer touch the earth.
Bravo! A wonderful update to a wonderful quote.
One night I was doing sidewalk astronomy and a group of four teenagers stopped by to look at the moon. The first two had taken their turns at the eyepiece and we were chatting while the third one stepped up. One them asked me why I do this. Right at that moment the third person got her eye to the eyepiece and actually squealed with delight. We all laughed and I said, "That's why."
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Orion XT6 "Shaft"
Little Maks: Orion Apex 90, Celestron orange tube C90, Synta MC90
Edmund Astroscan "Baby Red"
76mm ongoing ATM experiment
Celestron UpClose 10x50
Celestron SkyMaster 15x70
10 Minute Astronomy
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scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 638
Loc: Kingman, Ks
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That Sailor70623 hit some good nail heads about schools and the courses of today vs. those of the 60's. My kid can't turn a fraction into a decimal point and the local high school senior carhop can't make change for a twenty. Yet the school says math and reading scores have gone UP. I saw parts of this test for High School Juniors. A 50-60's kid in the 8th grade could have passed it. And the teachers of my HS generation (the 60's--yea, I'm an ole geezer) were a heck of alot smarter than those of today.
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dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
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Quote:
Quote:
In my opinion it's because we (as a society) are regressing into the dark ages where the appeal of blind zeal is more effective than than intellectual debate.
It may well be, as dvNt and my brother would agree, that we're on a hideous down slope.
I afford myself the probably unwarranted optimism that things eventually and always trend to the better. History has its ups and downs (to say the least), but I hold hope that eventually reason and science will regain ascendancy and humanity will realize even high achievements than we have seen so far.
I suppose it depends on the sampling of time that you choose. If we chose the last hundred years to examine, I'm not so sure your optimism is well placed. If we look at the last thousand then things look a little brighter.
A great variable in this equation is population growth. How many people can fit in a room before everyone stops trying to make sense and just tries to get by? The burst of human population that we see today is unprecedented. I think this cheapens the value and experience of life and ensures a lower intellectual common denominator.
I hate to come off as alarmist, and in hindsight that's what my words look like. I would have been better off saying that there are ideological forces at work in the US that are doing everything they can to return us to the dark ages.
I don't know how many of you know Tim, but I can say that there has never been a more honest and sincere post. I met him elsewhere online (on an intellectual battleground that doesn't even deserve mention) and I suspect the outreaching nature that he describes above is as evident online as it is on his sidewalk. I owe him a great deal.
Regarding education in general, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Let me set some foundation:
I'm the youngest child of two career teachers. My father was in the Airforce for some time before teaching and my mother put herself through college after high school and immediately began teaching. With all due respect to both of them, they're boring people. Their ideal weeknight involves screaming triumphantly at the TV as Fox News confirms all of their righteous indignation. They have no interests, and no passions except their children (which is arguably just a passion to live up to societies expectation). They've both spent 30 years in the education system as teachers and we wonder why there is no relevance in the classroom. It's because by and large teachers are a lower-middle class folk who are suffocating in a bubble of non-reality. In my school district I'd say it's usual that teachers have no real life experience to bring into the classroom except the time they've spent in educational institutions. This is the death of inspiration. They are experts at nothing but jumping through hoops and so that is all our children will ever become. That is what our society will become, a hierarchy of hoop jumping, where ability and skill are irrelevant. Now, of course we can't expect every public school teacher to be advancing research in their field. I don't know what the answer is, but that doesn't mean I can't see the problem.
Please pardon my passionate and assertive language, this obviously strikes close to home with me. I apologize if any of my comments offend.
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Zhumell Z8 Deluxe Dobsonian Reflector
Zhumell 9mm 1.25" EP, Zhumell 30mm WV 2" EP
GSO 2X Barlow
Zhumell 2" Filter Kit (Skyglow, UHC, O-III, Variable Polarity)
Baader Planetarium 2" to 1.25" EP Adapter
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aa5te
Genial Procrastinator
Reged: 08/30/08
Posts: 429
Loc: Clinton, TN
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Very interesting article and video here, this sums up a lot of my feelings on the topic at hand - creativity is being killed by the education system: CNN article & video
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Shane
Binos: Apogee 25x100 / Burgess Optical 25x100 / Pentax 20x60 PCF WP / Tasco InFocus 10x50
Tripods: Sunpak PlatinumPlus Ultra 7500TM / Quickset Samson
Refractors: Meade DS-2102AT-TC 102mm f/7.8; Sears Discoverer 3 (4454) 80mm f/15; Jason 313 Discoverer 60mm f/15.2
Reflectors (Dob): Hardin Optical DSH10 10" f/5
EP's: Zoom: Zhumell 8-24mm & Circle K 7.5-22.5mm 0.965"; 9-52mm Plössls; Zhumell 2x barlow
Kodak Z760; Orion SteadyPix camera mount; Orion LaserMate Deluxe Collimator
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lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1281
Loc: Macomb Michigan
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Quote:
Regarding education in general, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Let me set some foundation:
I'm the youngest child of two career teachers. My father was in the Airforce for some time before teaching and my mother put herself through college after high school and immediately began teaching. With all due respect to both of them, they're boring people. Their ideal weeknight involves screaming triumphantly at the TV as Fox News confirms all of their righteous indignation. They have no interests, and no passions except their children (which is arguably just a passion to live up to societies expectation). They've both spent 30 years in the education system as teachers and we wonder why there is no relevance in the classroom. It's because by and large teachers are a lower-middle class folk who are suffocating in a bubble of non-reality. In my school district I'd say it's usual that teachers have no real life experience to bring into the classroom except the time they've spent in educational institutions. This is the death of inspiration. They are experts at nothing but jumping through hoops and so that is all our children will ever become. That is what our society will become, a hierarchy of hoop jumping, where ability and skill are irrelevant. Now, of course we can't expect every public school teacher to be advancing research in their field. I don't know what the answer is, but that doesn't mean I can't see the problem.
Please pardon my passionate and assertive language, this obviously strikes close to home with me. I apologize if any of my comments offend.
You may offend some, but there is truth in what you say. My son is now in his first year of college working his way toward an engineering degree. The high school he attended had a lot more to offer than the school I attended 30+ years ago, including and engineering/architecture program. Only a few instructors truly inspired and exited his passion to learn, some were the instructors of the engineering classes.
These Instructors were all retired engineers (with over a dozen patents between them) that decided to teach the next generation. The stories and experiences they brought to the classroom really inspired the students. They were also very tough and expected the students to work. According to my son the students were somewhat surprised the first week of class when they were handed a list of rules and given a speech regarding behavior in the class. To paraphrase it was along the lines of, “Engineering is a profession and only professional behavior will tolerated in the classroom. If you are not prepared to work hard, follow rules and act like adults, this class is not for you. If you think this will be a blow off class and are not serious you may as well leave now because I will end up removing you anyway”. These guys were tough but were well liked by the students.
Unfortunately, being “outsiders” and not career teachers it seemed they were always butting heads with the school administrators. Some of the administrators thought the program a waste because very females chose to enter the classes, and every year threatened to do away with or cut back the program. The students learned a lot in these classes IMO. By the middle of his sophomore year my son was able to read mechanical drawings and was fluent in both the Autocad and Inventor programs.
To make a long story short, after my son graduated 2 of the 3 teachers couldn’t take it anymore and left, and the classes were severely cut to just a fraction of what was previously offered. I don’t want this to be an indictment of all teachers or schools but just an example of some of the problems that could be affecting students attitudes toward science and engineering.
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Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 603
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Hi,
Seriously folks - what exactly are we doing here on this thread? 
So far, we've allocated blame to: -
a] Television shows that we just happen not to understand / like
b] Light pollution - wonder what's the percentage of telescope owners in dark states, by the way?
c] School systems failing to "inspire" kids enough to take up this hobby - funny that these same kids never actually sit there and vegetate their lives away whilst not at school.
Looking at the breadth of evils we've explored throughout this thread, is at all possible that we're all actually in (somewhat) a state of denial over the fact that this hobby, to put it bluntly, is simply unable_to_compete with alternative activities and interests available to the upcoming generations?
Come to think of it., perhaps we may want to ask ourselves..,
"How many of our childhood chums, that grew up with television shows we liked, went to the same school at the same time we did, in that great town we grew up in - with great skies are also in this hobby now?" 
Just a thought.., no harm, no foul intended.
Regards,
skybsd
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FLYcrash
member
Reged: 08/29/09
Posts: 96
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
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As a person who spent a couple years in front of a high school classroom (and who considers returning there eventually), I'd just like to encourage all of you to take these negative notions about the educational system (which unfortunately are accurate for many teachers and schools) and act on them constructively when you get the chance.
Teacher quality is of utmost importance. Yet how many families these days would encourage their most talented child to pursue a career in education? How many voters would vote to give teachers a professional salary to attract people with the passion and skill to succeed in other fields?
I finished a bachelor's in chemistry with honors from a top school and won two highly competitive federal graduate fellowships that are now paying me to get a Ph.D. in physical chemistry. Many of the people I grew up with, from the socioeconomic and educational elite, view my time in the classroom as a waste of time or, at best, a "break" from "real" ambitions. I disagree. Teaching high school made that bachelor's (and this Ph.D.) seem like a cakewalk. Being a teacher extracted every ounce of strength and expertise I could summon from those experiences. I also view it as the most worthwhile work I've ever done even though it was backbreaking.
Ironically, some of the most sympathetic attitudes I've gotten about teaching (other than from fellow teachers) are from the most disadvantaged. One day, I sat near a bunch of down-and-out elderly men on the train, who told me they grew up in the projects of Chicago. They got very excited when they heard I was a teacher in a low-income high school. They said that teaching their kids was the toughest job in the world and the most important, and that if I ever was in a bind they'd have my back. I wonder what it says about our society when the most respect for teachers comes from people raised in generational poverty, who grew up in the worst schools and with the fewest resources?
I agree that it's sad that teaching is relegated to lower-middle-class folk with few other options, but what will you do to change it?
Just some food for thought. I'll get off the soapbox.
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Raman
Young, myopic, non-astigmatic eyes; polycarbonate spectacles; Minox HG 8x33, 10x52 binoculars
Orion XT4.5 (114mm, f/8) Dob
Sirius 25mm, 10mm Ploessls; Vixen 17mm LVW; Orion Deluxe 2x barlow
Edited by FLYcrash (11/03/09 03:44 PM)
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
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I'm 20 and studying math & physics...Eventually seeking a PhD in Astrophysics.... There are a few of us
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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lightfever
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 1281
Loc: Macomb Michigan
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How many people here run into others, (friends relatives neighbors ect..) that think this hobby is somehow strange or weird?
A couple of years ago my wife and I and a bunch of neighbors ended up congregating and visiting on a nice warm evening. One neighbor brought up the fact that she wanted to start a petition to have street lights put in. Of course I was horrified at the thought. My wife quickly stated that we would be against it, and I also added that we would fight having lights put in. I explained that we had chosen that sub because we like to be able to view the night sky and that I enjoyed astronomy. The neighbor gave me a strange look and began laughing and acted sort of dismissively. Luckily the idea never went anywhere and we later found out many of the neighbors agreed with me, however most of those just did not want to be taxed for it.
I was still shocked at how many did think this is a strange hobby.
I guess we are just a small fraction of the population.
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Mark
Tasco 15-TE 76mm
Sky Watcher 80mm ED
AT-111 Triplet
XT8i (with Woden re-figured mirror)
Discovery 12.5" f/5 Premium DHQ (PDHQ Split-tube Dobsonian)
12.5" f/6.3 Dob (Underconstruction)
Celestron CG-5GT EQ Mount
Celestron C4 EQ Mount
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain" unknown
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magic612
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 561
Loc: Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
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Quote:
How many people here run into others, (friends relatives neighbors ect..) that think this hobby is somehow strange or weird?
Well, fortunately most of my neighbors aren't like this - perhaps because I've been very open about bringing telescopes out and letting them view the night sky through them. For the most part, they aren't dismissive - though I still have one next door that leaves a 75 watt bulb on all night the shines brightly at least three houses away...
But anyway, I do still get the occasional odd comment - I posted on my Facebook page something about my telescopes, and one of my old high school friends made some wisecrack about "looking into other people's houses" with my scopes (something I've never had any desire to do, ever). I think it's because A) some people think we're closet peeping-toms and/or B) lots of people are dismissive of things they don't understand (or care to understand) - mostly because they don't want to look stupid in front of others.
Anyway... I just try to be supportive of others' hobbies and interests, and I don't tend to get much flak for my stargazing. But that's only among those I know.
I've no idea what the folks driving down the street think of me sitting in my front yard peering into the eyepiece of a skyward-aimed scope. Then again - I don't care what they think of me. 
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- Celestron C8+, Orion 90mm f/10, Orion ST-80, 5" f/8 Dob, 127mm f/9.4 refractor, 114mm f/8 on DS GoTo, 60mm Sears 6333-A, 127mm f4.4 refractor lens (current project), 12" f/5 mirror (future project)
- Orion Vista 10x50s (5 deg), Sears #6207 7x35 (7 deg), Jason #138 Statesman 7x35 (11.5 deg)
Yes, I'm addicted to telescopes and binoculars. I am getting help. Every time I look at the heavens, it helps.
http://www.eyesonthesky.com
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David Allen
member
Reged: 10/04/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Huntsville, Alabama
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Where I live, all things space rule the roost. We have the only remaining Space Camp and one of the few Space and Rocket Centers left. We actually have a real Saturn five that was built to fly but never got the chance (and a full size vertical replica). Who needs the Smithsonian Air and Space museum? We have more rockets, an SR-71 and one of the real Apollo command modules plucked from the sea after returning from the moon, and two lunar modules. We also host the full size wooden shuttle mockup complete with solid rocket boosters and external fuel tank. We have hosted MIR and SkyLab exhibits. Our museum has more rockets and missiles. (OK, the Smithsonian has the Wright Flyer but that did not go into space) We also have a small observatory with a planetarium and 21 and 16 inch telescopes up on the local mountain (I would call it a big hill as it is only about 450 feet above city level. They also have regular Saturday night programs for anybody interested in astronomy. We have one of NASA’s Space Flight Centers too. My town came of age during the early space flight years and flourished during the space station and shuttle years. We also have a heavy presence in the air and missile defense industry. One of our “claims to fame” is the highest number of PhD’s per capita of anywhere in the world. I would bet 1 in 10 adults who live in this town have an engineering, computer science, physics, or some other technical advanced degree. Our schools reflect that level of education. When parents are highly educated, they tend to stress education to their kids.
Having said all that, when I attend our local astronomy club meetings, most people are probably over 40, most probably over 50. The last meeting I went to was attended by about 20 people in a space crazy town of approximately 170 thousand people living in the area.
Why is amateur astronomy not popular? Because Wal-Mart sells $100 scopes that are junk. The views are terrible and people quickly lose interest. “Real scopes” are perceived to be expensive and you have to know where to look to find them. Even here, if you can find a telescope, it is in the back corner of a camera store. And we all joke about how expensive this hobby is. That is why more people don’t join in our fun.
Where do I live you ask. Huntsville, AL, USA.
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Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: Kentucky
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Quote:
Where I live, all things space rule the roost. We have the only remaining Space Camp and one of the few Space and Rocket Centers left. We actually have a real Saturn five that was built to fly but never got the chance (and a full size vertical replica). Who needs the Smithsonian Air and Space museum? We have more rockets, an SR-71 and one of the real Apollo command modules plucked from the sea after returning from the moon, and two lunar modules. We also host the full size wooden shuttle mockup complete with solid rocket boosters and external fuel tank. We have hosted MIR and SkyLab exhibits. Our museum has more rockets and missiles. (OK, the Smithsonian has the Wright Flyer but that did not go into space) We also have a small observatory with a planetarium and 21 and 16 inch telescopes up on the local mountain (I would call it a big hill as it is only about 450 feet above city level. They also have regular Saturday night programs for anybody interested in astronomy. We have one of NASA’s Space Flight Centers too. My town came of age during the early space flight years and flourished during the space station and shuttle years. We also have a heavy presence in the air and missile defense industry. One of our “claims to fame” is the highest number of PhD’s per capita of anywhere in the world. I would bet 1 in 10 adults who live in this town have an engineering, computer science, physics, or some other technical advanced degree. Our schools reflect that level of education. When parents are highly educated, they tend to stress education to their kids.
Having said all that, when I attend our local astronomy club meetings, most people are probably over 40, most probably over 50. The last meeting I went to was attended by about 20 people in a space crazy town of approximately 170 thousand people living in the area.
Why is amateur astronomy not popular? Because Wal-Mart sells $100 scopes that are junk. The views are terrible and people quickly lose interest. “Real scopes” are perceived to be expensive and you have to know where to look to find them. Even here, if you can find a telescope, it is in the back corner of a camera store. And we all joke about how expensive this hobby is. That is why more people don’t join in our fun.
Where do I live you ask. Huntsville, AL, USA.
I'm familiar with the Redstone Arsenal which later became the Von Braun Space Center through reading, but reading your note here really made me wish I had moved there when I came to the USA to teach as I would have fit right in and loved it.
I envy you.
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http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
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David Allen
member
Reged: 10/04/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Huntsville, Alabama
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The Army’s Redstone Arsenal is still here. NASA built the Marshal Space Flight Center on the arsenal.
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 12230
Loc: Los Angeles
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Observational astronomy is a slowly-practiced hobby requiring patience and a love of the night. Perhaps that will always make it a "fringe" pursuit.
Even if the hobby disappears because its practitioners die, it will not mean the end of science, or the end of astronomy. Look at the millions energized by pictures from the Hubble.
I admit that there is little else currently happening to get people to look up. Will people continue to do so?
A story:
I was at a public parking place (an overlook in th mountains) one night when what was obviously a group of gang members pulled up. They eventually spotted me and came over to see what was going on. After a few looks at the crescent moon, most of them went away to sit in their vehicle and do whatever they had come there to do. But one young man stayed at the scope with me, looking at target after target, absorbing everything I had to say about the astrophysics of the objects, and even asking pertinent questions.
Eventually, his buddies called him over because they were going to leave. He thanked me for spending the time with him, shook my hand, and left with his buddies.
Each of us was exposed to the sky at some time in our lives. Usually it was as children watching an eclipse, or seeing the Moon or Saturn through a neighbor's scope, or seeing great pictures in a book. It's the exposure to the wonders of the night sky that plants the seed.
Maybe if we all just planted a few seeds our thousands could become millions?
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov, Fujinon Binos
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 603
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Hi,
Quote:
Why is amateur astronomy not popular? Because Wal-Mart sells $100 scopes that are junk. The views are terrible and people quickly lose interest.
C'mon.., you don't really believe that, do you?
I believe that if exisiting folks in this hobby are REALLY worried about its long (or even mid?) term survival, then the sooner we accept the fact that in today's world, unless positive initiatives are taken to compete against everything else that folks find time to do other than look through a telescope, what numbers there are of us, will naturally dwindle.
Regards,
skybsd
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Jason D
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/21/06
Posts: 3310
Loc: California
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Quote:
Why is amateur astronomy not popular? Because Wal-Mart sells $100 scopes that are junk. The views are terrible and people quickly lose interest.
I am tired of these claims. It is not the cheap $100 scopes that turn away some people from the hobby. It just happened that most of those who end up buying the $100 cheap scopes are not serious about the hobby to start with. That lack of seriousness is what turns them away from the hobby -- not the $100 cheap scope. Those who are serious about the hobby will complete serious research about scopes over the internet before purchasing their first scope. It does not take much research to find out 1000s of "beware" statements against purchasing department store scopes.
Jason
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XT10 classic with premium optics
Tri-knob CR2 with compression rings
Round Table Platform
4.5" StarBlast
6" StarBlast6
TV EPs
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dVnt
member
Reged: 08/31/09
Posts: 29
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I don't think your specifically addressing the issue though.
The ultimate problem is that people are not getting $100 worth of views from these telescopes. The Galileoscope or Celestron First Scope are a fraction of this price and provide another magnitude of performance.
These "walmart $100" telescopes are not made to put people's eyes in the skies, they are made with one intent, to make a buck.
I think it's entirely reasonable to say that this MUST have a negative, even if unquantifiable, effect on the adoption rate of this interest/hobby.
In other words, if these cheap department store scopes were replaced with Galileoscopes and First Scopes, that differentiation of experience might correlate with an increased adoption of astronomy pursuits.
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Zhumell Z8 Deluxe Dobsonian Reflector
Zhumell 9mm 1.25" EP, Zhumell 30mm WV 2" EP
GSO 2X Barlow
Zhumell 2" Filter Kit (Skyglow, UHC, O-III, Variable Polarity)
Baader Planetarium 2" to 1.25" EP Adapter
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Jason D
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/21/06
Posts: 3310
Loc: California
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Quote:
The ultimate problem is that people are not getting $100 worth of views from these telescopes. The Galileoscope or Celestron First Scope are a fraction of this price and provide another magnitude of performance.
These "walmart $100" telescopes are not made to put people's eyes in the skies, they are made with one intent, to make a buck.
I do not disagree with your statements but maybe I am missing your point.
Yes, many department store scopes (if not most) are not worth their cost. But it all comes down to supply and demand. As long as there are potential buyers who do not research their first scopes purchase and who are willing to buy these scopes, then these scopes will continue to be around.
My point is that we should stop demonizing these manufacturers who are business savvy to recognize they can make a quick buck selling these scopes. It is not their fault. That is my point.
Jason
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XT10 classic with premium optics
Tri-knob CR2 with compression rings
Round Table Platform
4.5" StarBlast
6" StarBlast6
TV EPs
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David Allen
member
Reged: 10/04/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Huntsville, Alabama
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The reason I made that statement about Wal-Mart telescopes is because I have seen the same experience with cheap bicycles. Please be aware this is not about Wal-Mart or any other discount store. It is about expectations and enjoyment. When I first started riding a bike as an adult (for fun and exercise) my wife and I bought new bikes. They were $100 department store things that did not perform well. They rode poorly, it was difficult to shift gears, the brakes were not good, and they were uncomfortable. Everything you would expect from a cheap bike. My wife pretty much quit riding because it was not fun but I kept going because of health reasons.
A year later, I bought a “real” bike for three times that amount. I loved it. Over the next few years, I was riding upwards of 6000 miles a year. After 15 years, I still ride just about every week, year round. I was told by my local bike shop dude that my experience is all too common. People quit riding because they don’t like riding that bike, not because they don’t like bike riding.
Personally, I think very few people choose to buy those awful scopes. Well meaning parents and grandparents give them a gifts. How many parents see these things and think what a cool educational toy I can give. The new owner gives it a go and after a few disappointing sessions, well you know the rest of the story. So I guess I don’t really blame Wal-Mart or the $100 cheapos. I don’t “blame” anything. It is just reality.
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