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E_Look
Post Laureate


Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: near New York
Incredible Mars Through the Clouds!
      #5081459 - 02/20/12 03:33 AM

The forecast for here tonight was "partly cloudy" and I had originally brought my Newtonian out to cool around 5 PM in hopes of catching Mercury. But it was so cloudy that you couldn't see the setting sun itself, only a bright region over in the west.

I left my tube outside anyway, and was encouraged when a bit later I looked out for a second and saw Jupiter and Venus. It was dinner time and I had some stuff to do, so by the time I actually got outside it was 11:30 PM. "No sweat", I thought, "I'll just catch Mars!"

When I brought out my mount, tripod, and eyepieces, it was totally overcast, accompanied by that proverbial sinking feeling. And then I spotted Mars, dim, hazy, and haloed through the cloud layer. I quickly set my GEM up and aimed the OTA at Mars.

And here's where the night got very nice. I got Mars roughly in vicinity with a 25 mm Sirius Plössl (40x), in which Mars looked like, literally, a dot, a little orange one. I swapped that out for a 9 mm TMB Planetary (111x); just a bigger dot. Okay, then, go for the jugular- swapped that out for a 4 mm TMB (250x). For the first half hour, the seeing, if you could call it that, made the image too soft in the 4 mm, so I backed down to a 5 mm TMB (200x), and it was okay, but not great. It was sharp in the 7 mm TMB, but it was just a medium-smallish dot there (143x), so I went back to the 5 mm, and was able to get a well-defined limb with the northern polar cap easily visible.

About fifteen or twenty minutes later, the view in the 5 mm was firming up, so I popped the 4 mm back in and still got a nice view. In both of these, I was beginning to be able to see the greenish mare with a tad bit of resolution, so I put in a 2.5 mm TMB (400x)...

... and WOW! It was the closest thing, and maybe the first time I think I can recall getting that impression that I was approaching the planet in a spaceship, looking through the porthole! At 400x with the 2.5 mm, yes, the image was no longer as "tack" sharp as in the lower magnifications, but the north polar cap really popped out and I could actually begin to make out the rough outlines of the mare, particularly the dark outline containing the polar cap, Mare Acidalium, and Mare Erytheraeum blending in with Mare Sireneum; the others were harder to see. There were some unresolved, more nebulous greenish regions by the eastern limb of the planet, but the Sky & Telescope website Mars map did not show any mare or other features there. I was blown away! And there were more moments of no turbulence than I can remember this year so far.

This is the first time I actually got good views out of a cloud layer filtered planet. And that slightly rusty orangish cast of Mars was actually enhanced by the clouds. Incredibly, the views through this layer of stratus completely beat those last night with transparent, but unsteady skies.

The orangy glow, white polar ice cap, and the fairly resolved greenish mare kept me out in the cold for a couple of hours, and I might have absent-mindedly stayed out longer gawking and drooling at a very gorgeous Mars except that the clouds began to thicken. There were several moments toward the end of my session that Mars was totally blocked out. There were more in which it was visible, but really too dark to observe with any satisfaction.

A personal habit of mine is to finally pop in a low power, wider field EP to end the night, but Mars was too small in the 25 mm Plössl, and won't be much bigger in the 16 mm Meade 5000 SWA. Since I most of my night with Mars was spent at 400x, I slid down one notch to the 3.2 mm (313x) and was treated to a very sharp, resolved, detailed view of Mars for about five to ten minutes. Too bad the clouds began to really darken it after that. And at that point I packed it in.

There were a few "lost" moments when the right ascension axis drive motor (Orion SVP TrueTrack) clutch gear slipped and I lost Mars in the field of view. One of those times, the clouds hid Mars for at least ten minutes and I was going to give up, but the cloud layer coughed Mars back out, so I continued. There were a few times when the drive clutch would slip and I had to retighten it. It is tricky because there is an overtightening in which the drive won't work and if undertightened, it would slip within seconds. I'm not sure, but it seems that every time I've had this issue, it was cold out. It could be the temperature. But that didn't spoil my night, as the views of Mars tonight, again, incredibly, through the clouds afforded me sharp, resolved, if not very bright views of Mars at 400x and 313x!


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat


Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: E_Look]
      #5081478 - 02/20/12 05:39 AM

There ya go, bust some power on that mofo and enjoy yourself.

(Feeling some oats after a night of drinking..)

Good observation, I can relate.


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azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5081612 - 02/20/12 09:11 AM

Ed Im truly happy Mother Nature finally blinked and gave you hood seeing. Theres been talk in the forums about the effect of Cirrus clouds and such on seeing and I used to think it was merely a natural neutral density filter supressing light scatter and the seeing never changed at all. I think Im wrong on that though as I see the jetstream effect more clearly now and it would make sense that the additive of these clouds could help to blanket or steady the normal roiling nature of this area. At anyrate Im glad you got great views. I was coming home late last night and I continualy watched as sheet after sheet of high altitude clouds moved in alternating with clear sky. I had no idea it was that good!!!! The views had to be tremendous!!! The way you describe your flipping through ocular choices pretty well caught the back and fourth selections I think we all do.

Hope the seeing holds up tonight too as itll be first light for my C6. That and the Mars Filter Ive not yet officially tested (beyond Normes avatar - lol - where it excelled).

Again my enthusiastic appreciation of your experiences! Give a try tonight again if you can - maybe we can both luck out as seeing sometimes sticks around lol - like the bad stuff!

Pete


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Daniel Guzas
sage
*****

Reged: 11/20/10

Loc: Bethlehem NH/ Boston MA
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: E_Look]
      #5081835 - 02/20/12 11:41 AM

YES!

I too was treated to some small windows of excellent seeing last night. Id say about 10:30-12:00 and I had the mag cranked up to 500x.

This was a special moment as this was my first time viewing Mars and being able to catch some of the dark areas as well as the polar ice cap was much much more than I had anticipated. I hope I am not spoiled now having seen it probably the best ill ever be able to..

It made my night...!


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Rutilus
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/17/10

Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Daniel Guzas]
      #5082202 - 02/20/12 03:21 PM

Great report Ed.

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E_Look
Post Laureate


Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: near New York
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Rutilus]
      #5082273 - 02/20/12 04:10 PM

Norme- I opened a bottle of wine; it was awful. Most of it is still in the 'fridge. I think even the germs won't want it. Besides, it was cold enough out sitting around looking at planets.

Pete- C6!? You've got a Cassegrain? Let us all know how it goes with it! Good views to you! As to Mother Nature, it feels more like sneaking one when her back was turned. I mean, they were CLOUDS after all! LOL. I was very surprised as to how steady the images were in the field of view, at any magnification. Yeah, there was quite a bit of turbulence, but not like some of the clear nights when the seeing is awful. Oh man, Pete... those 400x and 313x *SHARP* views. This was almost as good as that time two years ago when I could blow Mars up to 719x and still get images like last night's 400x view. It makes waiting through all those free, but cloudy, rainy, or snowy nights worth it... almost. I used to play this game with Saturn, but that planet looks just like a space lemon through clouds...

Daniel, I am very glad for you that you caught the same good views. I'm glad too, that you were not put off by the apparent total cloudiness and went outside to set up and observe. Enjoy your reward! But as to being spoiled, no, not yet! You're going to have one of those CLEAR nights with good seeing and that will really spoil you. I had it once, maybe twice and am still waiting for them to return... well, I wait for them every night, but you know what I do get instead.

Rutilus, thank you. I hope you too get post a great report!

Oh Everybody- I just found out mucking with my scope this afternoon that the collimation was off! My primary was a bit out of whack. It's fixed now. Imagine if I discovered that yesterday afternoon! Ah well, a good session is a good session, regardless of gear!


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wfj
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/10/08

Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Rutilus]
      #5082286 - 02/20/12 04:18 PM

Sometimes we get unexpectedly good surprises when we take a peek at planets, even when the weather seems marginal. The reasons for this may vary.

The exception to this rule is anything to do with bad seeing. The best you can hope for with bad seeing is a fraction of a second glimpse, as chaotic winds briefly stabilize before falling into a different kind of chaos.

Perhaps the beneficial effect has more to do with a means of enhancing seeing than anything else.


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bassplayer142
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/03/11

Loc: Michigan
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: wfj]
      #5082820 - 02/20/12 10:16 PM

I just took a gander at Mars through the clouds and was treated to my best viewing on Mars yet! I went back and forth with an 11mmT6 and 8.8mmES, both with TV 2x Barlow for ~220x and ~270x.

I'm happy to report that I saw the polar ice cap with two prominent dark features that appear to have been Mare Acidalium and Mare Erythraeum which was probably a combination of it and surrounding dark spots. Unfortunately, when I came inside to warm up for a while the clouds became too thick and I had to pack it up. Can't wait to check it out in a few weeks with my new ES6.7mm when it comes.


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JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: E_Look]
      #5082922 - 02/20/12 11:30 PM

The best views I ever saw of Mars was back in 1988 when it was really close to us. I didn't have any filters for my Coulter 8" f/6.9 reflector and Mars was roughly 25" across in size and just too bright. Clouds came in and I said oh well but I gave my last try at it. Wow! I thought I was looking at Earth from space except it was orange/red & with dark maria areas. I was probably using only 150x but almost had to pinch myself to see if I was not dreaming this. From that day on I don't regard thin clouds as trouble but as filters for objects like Mars,Jupiter,Venus our Moon.

Jim


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E_Look
Post Laureate


Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: near New York
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5083015 - 02/21/12 12:26 AM

bassplayer142, your report corroborates my observations. It makes me feel really good to see that others got the same results.

Jim, free public neutral density filters, I guess! I'm not going to criticize clouds in a kneejerk way again!


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5083100 - 02/21/12 02:04 AM

Quote:

The best views I ever saw of Mars was back in 1988 when it was really close to us. I didn't have any filters for my Coulter 8" f/6.9 reflector and Mars was roughly 25" across in size and just too bright. Clouds came in and I said oh well but I gave my last try at it. Wow! I thought I was looking at Earth from space except it was orange/red & with dark maria areas. I was probably using only 150x but almost had to pinch myself to see if I was not dreaming this. From that day on I don't regard thin clouds as trouble but as filters for objects like Mars,Jupiter,Venus our Moon.

Jim




1988 was an amazing apparition, wasn't it? Better than 2003 IMO.
I had gotten my Meade 826C newt just for the occasion; and boy, did it ever deliver!


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bassplayer142
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/03/11

Loc: Michigan
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: E_Look]
      #5083406 - 02/21/12 09:38 AM

Quote:

bassplayer142, your report corroborates my observations. It makes me feel really good to see that others got the same results.

Jim, free public neutral density filters, I guess! I'm not going to criticize clouds in a kneejerk way again!




Nice for me to hear too! I'm just getting more picky about collimation and I've already seen a big difference in planetary viewing. Even with 2/5 or 3/5 seeing conditions, I've already rivaled my best viewing before I really collimated it well. My plan is to get an autocollimator and some tools for the secondary mirror also.

Can't wait for Mars opposition! While looking at the numbers, it is amazing to realize that Mars was around twice as big in 2003. What amazing detail could have been seen would be so great.


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JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5083599 - 02/21/12 11:18 AM

I also had a Meade 826C 8" f/6 equatorial reflector I got at a garage sale for $100. I cleaned up the dusty mirror & insides and then flocked it 100%. It too provided great images on the planets. Can't beat those old classic scopes!

Jim


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SebJ
super member


Reged: 03/13/11

Loc: Bedfordshire, England, UK
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: bassplayer142]
      #5083617 - 02/21/12 11:27 AM

Sounds like an awesome night there Ed. 719x a couple of years ago is crazy good magnification. What an experience that must have been!!

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Dean Norris
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/05/08

Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: SebJ]
      #5084257 - 02/21/12 05:35 PM

Ed,

Mars a t 400x and 313x is mighty fine. This side with Amazonis seems to have some faint albedo features that are not named or shown on the S+T Mars profiler. I noticed this recently and was wondering the same. I need to look into this some more.
Congratulations on the great night.

Clear and steady skies. Dean


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E_Look
Post Laureate


Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: near New York
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Dean Norris]
      #5084372 - 02/21/12 06:46 PM

SebJ, aw, as to that night I'm still aching for a repeat. Last night and the night before was very good, but not the same. Yeah, I almost can't believe it myself, a clear enough planetary image up to 719x. I tried it with Saturn the same night, but that ringed fuzzball only permitted 575x, despite the excellent seeing.

Dean, thank you. And I wonder if those are transient albedo features, that may not recur another time. If they are indeed real surface features, they may be named in a more rigorous work, like a book, rather than a magazine's website, though the latter is much more convenient than trekking to a library.


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Dean Norris]
      #5084440 - 02/21/12 07:33 PM

Quote:

This side with Amazonis seems to have some faint albedo features that are not named or shown on the S+T Mars profiler. I noticed this recently and was wondering the same. I need to look into this some more.




Dean,

You need the Ebisawa map. You can download its 3 pieces at either the ALPO or BAA web sites. Ebisawa plotted every feature ever seen by anyone on Mars, and his map is the gold standard of visual Mars maps. It's like Antoniadi's map on steroids.


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Dean Norris
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/05/08

Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5084787 - 02/21/12 11:06 PM

Rick,

Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.

Dean


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k2power
super member
*****

Reged: 02/07/10

Loc: NC
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: Dean Norris]
      #5086361 - 02/22/12 09:20 PM

It sounds like a lot of people had good seeing two nights ago....myself included. I got a farily sharp view of Mars showing surface detail and the polar cap at 600X (3mm Smart Astronomy LER) in my Intes-Orion Argonaut. Lst night I couldn't go past 225X (8mm) in the same scope. In both cases the scope had been cooling for many hours.

I had my largest scope of my life - a 16" Meade Starfinder during the 2003 opposition and saw fantastic views of the planet with that. The optics were incredible and I have never seen Mars so well since until 2 nights ago when I was very impressed but certainly a 6" can't deliver what a 16" can when Mars was much closer. But don't have the 16" anymore due to its large size.


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azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Incredible Mars Through the Clouds! new [Re: k2power]
      #5086567 - 02/22/12 11:41 PM

It is a huge scope - the 16 - in any configuration. That aside, you certainly seem well armed with the scopes you have listed.

Pete


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