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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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Andrew Welsh
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/28/06
Posts: 2483
Loc: Rochester, NY
M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS
      #2357075 - 04/28/08 11:17 AM Attachment (136 downloads)

Here I was thinking I was all cool and stuff taking pics of M101, but several others beat me to the punch, mostly because of the absurdly obscene number of subs I collected on this target and the (relatively) incredible amount of processing time it took.

Happy to use my new 300mm f/2.8 L IS lens I gathered subs as the full moon was waning in the 1-2 hour period after astro-dark and before the moon ruined the subs with all the wonderful clear weather we had last week. Figures now that the moon is gone, we have wall-to-wall rain forecast. This is my first official non-test-shot astrophoto with the lens!

This was all automagically run unguided-- who needs guiding with 45 sec subs-- and EOS utility and the Canon 40D. Focusing was a breeze-- autofocus on a bright star, then use liveview to micro-adjust focus without even touching the lens. 90% of the time it was spot on anyway. That's the hidden benefit of live view and EOS utility- you can nudge the focus a teensy bit without having to make feather-touch adjustments by hand.

The 300/2.8 is surprisingly sensitive to temperature changes-- I literally threw out 100+ subs due to focus shift in less than an hour. I guess that's the price you pay to image at f/2.8-- I rarely had focus shift problems with the 400/5.6L, so the 2nd and 3rd nights I got smart and checked focus a couple of times until the air temp stabilized enough around midnight. Now I appreciate first-hand why Bert has the servo setup with the stepper motor.

Once I converted all my subs in Iris I was surprised to find the total number-- 470!! That's 3h 52m 30s of data. At f/2.8. And ISO1600. If shot through the SCT at f/10, that would equate to roughly 32 hours of integration time hahaha... I don't have that much clear weather in a month. Iris didn't like that many subs-- when I tried the sigma clipping stack, it took 24 hours to process it. I used up 100GB of disk space in temp files. And the result ended up being posturized! Grr! A simple "add" stack with the "normalize if overflow" checkbox checked worked in less than an hour and produced a much smoother and useable result. I guess with 470 subs, the noise and meteors and cosmic rays get buried once the stack is normalized at the end, because I didn't see any.

FWIW, I could barely make out M101 in my subs. The camera histogram was 4/5ths the way to the right in my Mag 5-ish skies @ 45sec @ ISO1600 (which works out to 3min @ f/5.6, which is my normal exposure length with the 400/5.6L). I'm very happy with this result.

Details:
M101, Taken 22-24 Apr 2008
Stack of 470 x 45sec subs, unguided, 3h 52m 30s total @ ISO1600
Canon 40D on a Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS @ f/2.8 piggyback mounted on an LX200
Canon EOS utility for camera control and Live View for tweaking the lens autofocus
Calibrated, stacked and processed in Iris
Final processing in Photoshop CS2, using Noel's Astronomy Tools, GradientXTerminator and Fredmiranda.com's intellisharpen II plugin

This is the full-frame version resized for web. The 100% full frame image can be seen here.

--------------------
LX200 8" classic, f/10, Meade eq. wedge, .63x FF/FR
Canon 40D and 5D, unmodified
Canon EF 300/2.8L IS, 400/5.6L, 135/2L, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 35/2, 24-70/2.8L, and Peleng 8mm fisheye
Orion Apex 102mm (4") Mak-Cass
Pimped out with accessories and bling
My DSLR Astrophotography Webpage and photo bucket with full equipment list


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Andrew Welsh
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/28/06
Posts: 2483
Loc: Rochester, NY
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Andrew Welsh]
      #2357078 - 04/28/08 11:18 AM Attachment (68 downloads)

100% crop of the center.. lovely round stars and great detail this lens is the bomb!

--------------------
LX200 8" classic, f/10, Meade eq. wedge, .63x FF/FR
Canon 40D and 5D, unmodified
Canon EF 300/2.8L IS, 400/5.6L, 135/2L, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 35/2, 24-70/2.8L, and Peleng 8mm fisheye
Orion Apex 102mm (4") Mak-Cass
Pimped out with accessories and bling
My DSLR Astrophotography Webpage and photo bucket with full equipment list


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Andrew Welsh
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/28/06
Posts: 2483
Loc: Rochester, NY
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Andrew Welsh]
      #2357083 - 04/28/08 11:20 AM Attachment (57 downloads)

For those interested, here's what came out of Iris... I processed it to the final product from this starting point- yikes! I haven't taken flats with this lens yet, so I stacked without flats-- vignetting is bad at f/2.8 due to inverse square law.

I do have a processing question-- I have some residual color "waves" in the image, about 40-50 pixels wide-- you can only see it in the full size image. They're vertical bands of slight color variation, and I don't know how to remove them. I'm not talking about the diagonal swipe in the noise pattern (which is due to polar alignment drift between subs)... any suggestions on how to remove this?

--------------------
LX200 8" classic, f/10, Meade eq. wedge, .63x FF/FR
Canon 40D and 5D, unmodified
Canon EF 300/2.8L IS, 400/5.6L, 135/2L, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 35/2, 24-70/2.8L, and Peleng 8mm fisheye
Orion Apex 102mm (4") Mak-Cass
Pimped out with accessories and bling
My DSLR Astrophotography Webpage and photo bucket with full equipment list


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nik hodges
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/20/07
Posts: 755
Loc: UK
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Andrew Welsh]
      #2357111 - 04/28/08 11:31 AM

thats super nice lots of faint fuzzies too

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AP900gto3
Flurostar 110/TAK TOA 0.75 reducer
Megrez 80mm triplet apo/moonlight focuser
8" LX200R/AP CCDT67 reducer/moonlight focuser
StarlightXpress SXVF-H16 camera/trutek filter wheel
DSI Pro II
Maxim DL/Maxpoint/PEMPro/CCDAP4/Sky6Pro/AdobePS3E
http://www.pbase.com/njh542/images2009


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M111
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/28/06
Posts: 790
Loc: Western MA
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: nik hodges]
      #2357142 - 04/28/08 11:44 AM

Beautiful wide field, Andrew. Tack sharp. 'L' Lenses are indeed the bomb.

--------------------
Brendan

WO ZS80FD 10th-Anniversary
Meade SN-6
Meade 2080 F/6.3 SCT
Meade LXD-75
Vixen Polaris
A bunch of cameras and lenses
Burnham's Celestial Handbook
Gallery



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LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
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Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 9047
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: M111]
      #2357193 - 04/28/08 12:06 PM

Nice job, Andrew. Wish I could have joined you.

--------------------
"Okay! You draw the straws. I'm-a taking the parachute."



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Tonk
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Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4346
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: LLEEGE]
      #2357214 - 04/28/08 12:22 PM

Those colourstrips could possibly be removed using a Fast Fourier Transform. There is a free FFT plugin for photoshop used just for these situations (repeating noise patterns of fixed frequency). I'll see if I can find the link to it tonight when I'm home

--------------------
Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock


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FarmerDave
sage
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Reged: 09/07/07
Posts: 414
Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Andrew Welsh]
      #2357216 - 04/28/08 12:25 PM

You're right, that *is* obscene. Really, really nice shot - I spent about 5 minutes just panning around the full version looking at fuzzies.

I see the vertical banding you're talking about, but have no idea how to get rid of it - it's interesting.

Nice glass, I'm jealous!
David

--------------------
Celestron C6/C9.25/CG-5GT Mount
Orion 80ED/EON 72/Supercharged Atlas EQ-G
Garrett Optical Signature Series 10x50
Canon XTi (soon to be modded)/Canon 40D (unmodded)
Meade DSI/Meade DSI Pro/Philips SPC900N
1944 Ford 2N/1948 Ford 8N

Bahtinov Mask Generator * AstroCataLink * 40DShutterCount


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AviddayM
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Reged: 12/28/05
Posts: 2096
Loc: Snohomish, Washington
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: FarmerDave]
      #2357225 - 04/28/08 12:30 PM

Sweet, very nice image Andrew.

--------------------
Dave

FS102NSV f/8
C11 XLT
NJP Temma II
STV Deluxe w/efinder



Ps 8:3-4
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers. The moon and the stars, which You have ordained. What is man that You are mindful of him. And the son of man that You visit him?



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weatherandsky
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Reged: 12/27/06
Posts: 1844
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: AviddayM]
      #2357256 - 04/28/08 12:47 PM

WOW Andrew I can't believe the detail. THe wide version is especially amazing because it has a really sharp look to it. WHat did a single raw look like?

--------------------
Kerry
* Weather and Sky Photography *

QHY-8, Canon 40D unmodded, Meade DSI-C
Meade 12" LightBridge
Astro-Tech 8in RC
Celestron C6-SCT
Sky-Watcher Equinox 80mm APO
Omcon 4.5" Newt
Celestron Skymaster 15x70
Canon 50 f1.8, 100 f2.8Macro, 100-400 f4.5-5.6L, Sigma 17-70, 18-50, 28-300
CGE, CG-5 GT


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RStar
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/04/06
Posts: 780
Loc: New Jersey
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: weatherandsky]
      #2357276 - 04/28/08 12:56 PM

Very cool image Andrew!! I can't imagine stacking that many subs

Bob

--------------------
Celestron CGE
Orion 190 Mak-Newtonian
TeleVue NP101
Orion ED80
WO 66 SD
ST-4 guider
Hap Modified 350XT
http://www.pbase.com/bobstarzynski/astro_imaging


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FoxK
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Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: RStar]
      #2357455 - 04/28/08 02:08 PM

Andrew, I tried some adjustments using Pete's tools
http://petersastro.50webs.com/orangesection.html

I used the "smooth background" tool which seemed to work well...I only spent 5 minutes on it but it seemed to at least lessen the banding. It looks like it made the entire field the same lum. and color as the lighter parts of the banding which might at least allow you to re-adjust the brightness and the color to normal.



--------------------
Orion 80mm ED Apo Refractor
8" Classic Dob (used as Newtonian on CG5 mount)
Meade 70-AZ-A 70mm Guider using PHD
LS60TCaK/B600/C
CG-5 Advanced GT Mount
Nikon D40x with T-Adaptors
Philips SPC900NC(1/4"ccd)& Quickcam 9000(1/3"CMOS)
Imaging Source DMK 21AU04.AS



- click for cloud prediction for Plymouth, MA. area


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mclewis1
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Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3933
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: FoxK]
      #2357530 - 04/28/08 02:41 PM

Amazing shot Andrew. I've been waiting to see what this lens can do.

It would be interesting to put it up against the new Tak FSQ-85ED with the 1.5x reducer. The Tak scope only gives up about an F stop to the Canon lens and ends up just a little cheaper.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - Modded 350D, DSI-P, SPC900, Mallincam

Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should


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Paul Milligan
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Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 1225
Loc: 54°12.0' N; 4°25' W
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2357588 - 04/28/08 03:05 PM

Nice widefield shot Andrew.
Great Job!

Paul M..

--------------------
Tak Epsilon 160 / 16 Inch Custom Truss Dob
WO FLT-110 [TEC] APO / WO Megrez 80FD APO
EQ6 Pro / Canon Rebel XTi / QHY5 / GSTAR-EX
----------------------------------------------
http://www.eyetotheuniverse.com


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Andrew Welsh
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Reged: 03/28/06
Posts: 2483
Loc: Rochester, NY
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2357676 - 04/28/08 03:39 PM Attachment (22 downloads)

Quote:

Amazing shot Andrew. I've been waiting to see what this lens can do.

It would be interesting to put it up against the new Tak FSQ-85ED with the 1.5x reducer. The Tak scope only gives up about an F stop to the Canon lens and ends up just a little cheaper.




Thanks, I bet the Tak would be of similar quality, but probably have slightly better contrast/colors due to fewer elements. It's easier to optimize a lens for a fixed focal point (infinity) The canon lens has two advantages over the Tak- it autofocuses and I can use it easily for daytime photography

Thanks everyone else for the comments. I will post a sample sub when I get home. I saw the results of Pete's actions and am impressed-- so I tried a little something on my own. I used Noel's select brighter stars tools, but inverted the mask (so I selected everything but the bright stars). Then I desaturated it completely. That got rid of the color variations, but not the luminance so much. I think it looks a little better.

--------------------
LX200 8" classic, f/10, Meade eq. wedge, .63x FF/FR
Canon 40D and 5D, unmodified
Canon EF 300/2.8L IS, 400/5.6L, 135/2L, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 35/2, 24-70/2.8L, and Peleng 8mm fisheye
Orion Apex 102mm (4") Mak-Cass
Pimped out with accessories and bling
My DSLR Astrophotography Webpage and photo bucket with full equipment list


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Andrew Welsh
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/28/06
Posts: 2483
Loc: Rochester, NY
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Andrew Welsh]
      #2357678 - 04/28/08 03:39 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

I also uploaded a new full-frame version- linked in the original post. Here's the updated 100% crop. I added some sharpening to the galaxy itself to pull out a little more detail:

--------------------
LX200 8" classic, f/10, Meade eq. wedge, .63x FF/FR
Canon 40D and 5D, unmodified
Canon EF 300/2.8L IS, 400/5.6L, 135/2L, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 35/2, 24-70/2.8L, and Peleng 8mm fisheye
Orion Apex 102mm (4") Mak-Cass
Pimped out with accessories and bling
My DSLR Astrophotography Webpage and photo bucket with full equipment list


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Mick Hyde
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Reged: 11/22/06
Posts: 1122
Loc: Swindon, UK
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Andrew Welsh]
      #2357693 - 04/28/08 03:47 PM

Stunning image Andrew.

--------------------
Mick.

http://astromick.blogspot.com http://mickhyde.googlepages.com Swindon CSC

Celestron 9.25 XLT, Takahashi SKY-90, Canon EOS 50D, DMK21AF04AS, SKYnyx 2-0M, CGE mount.


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s58y
Postmaster


Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 5494
Loc: Eastern NY
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Mick Hyde]
      #2357738 - 04/28/08 04:04 PM

Excellent image -- the long exposure and fast lens really bring out the faint details. It looks like the autofocus does a great job ni getting the exact focus.

--------------------
Hutech 30D, SBIG ST-402 autoguider
SV80S, TV102iis
Old camera lenses: 800mm f/5.6, 180mm f/3.4
AP900, Barndoor tracker

http://www.pbase.com/s58y


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Nils_Lars
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Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3385
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: s58y]
      #2357741 - 04/28/08 04:06 PM

Alot of hard work went into that shot and it shows , nice one.

--------------------
Erik

Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/


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Poochpa
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 503
Loc: Buffalo Burbs, NY
Re: M101, obscene # of subs w/300mm 2.8 L IS new [Re: Nils_Lars]
      #2358479 - 04/28/08 09:51 PM

Andrew, a lot of hard work but a very nice result. Star shape shows you have some good glass there. You might try shooting at a lower ISO for more star color and to reduce the banding.
Mike

--------------------
Televue NP101
Vixen GPDX/Skysensor 2000PC
Meade 8" LX200GPS
WO Zenithstar 66SD
Modified Canon Rebel XSi


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