bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
I'm wondering if anyone could help me determine the best way to debayer the raw footage from my DBK camera. I've read about using the AVIRaw software, but from what I'm finding it doesnt seem to be able to decode the Y800 codec.
In place of AVIRaw, I discovered that I could debayer using K3CCD Tools by applying a debayering input filter, and then exporting it as a frame collection as either an AVI or series of BMP images. That has been working fine for the last week or so, but for some reason last night my demo version of K3CCD Tools expired. I still had around 28 days left, but my guess is that my computer adjusted my clock last night and K3CCD saw this as a negative and expired my trial.
I don't mind purchasing K3CCD tools, as it appears to be a handy bit of software to have around. But before I hit the purchase button, I thought I'd ask here how others debayer the DBK Y800 footage outside of IC Capture / Registax? I don't really like the Registax debayering, as I prefer to run my images through some pre-processing software before I get to the Registax step (PPMCentere, RGBSplit, etc).
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Brian
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
G'day Brian - if you're using my ppmcentre (now called ninox) then I'd be happy to add the debayer support for you.
You can email me as "awesley at acquerra dot com dot au" with a few gzipped sample frames if you like and I'll see what I can do with them.
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|
Mick Hyde
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 11/22/06
Posts: 1122
Loc: Swindon, UK
|
|
I thought the early version of K3CCD Tools was free?
-------------------- Mick.
http://astromick.blogspot.com http://mickhyde.googlepages.com Swindon CSC
Celestron 9.25 XLT, Takahashi SKY-90, Canon EOS 50D, DMK21AF04AS, SKYnyx 2-0M, CGE mount.
|
bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
Quote:
G'day Brian - if you're using my ppmcentre (now called ninox) then I'd be happy to add the debayer support for you.
You can email me as "awesley at acquerra dot com dot au" with a few gzipped sample frames if you like and I'll see what I can do with them.
cheers, Bird
Yep - I'm using PPMCentere / Ninox. Kudos on your software - I've found that using it is a very important step in the process and I've consistently gotten better results when I process with Ninox before going into Registax.
If Ninox were able to debayer raw files, how would I get the raw AVI file into a photo format that maintains the raw information? If I run it through VirtualDub and save as BMP's, would the bayer color information be lost during translation? Or would I need to save as some other raw photo format from VirtualDub (FIT, etc)? Let me know, and I'll try to get the AVI frames exported in some way that maintains the bayered color information and email a few frames to you.
Thanks so much for your kind offer!
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
Quote:
I thought the early version of K3CCD Tools was free?
Yes - the 1.x version is still given out free. I downloaded it, but wasn't able to find where you could debayer in that version. In the 3.x version, there are input filters you can apply, and several of those are debayering filters. I hope I didn't just overlook the input filters in the older version - I'm going to take a peek and make sure.
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
Brian, not really sure what to suggest ... if you could fool the software into thinking that you have plain monochrome Y800 data then it would preserve all the bayer info.
You know that you've succeeded when you get a monochrome image that has a slight checkerboard appearance when you look at high magnification, the "green" pixels will be a lot brighter than the red and blue.
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|
swalker
Imaging Editor - Sky & Telescope
   
Reged: 01/22/07
Posts: 472
Loc: 42.9225°N, 71.2242°W
|
|
there is multiple debayer options in RegiStax 4.
Sean
-------------------- 12.5" f/5.1 Newt
10" f/4.5 Newt
4.25" f/4 Astrograph
80mm f/10 refractor
70mm Mak Cass
40mm PST
Millennium Mount EQ
TI ProDome #002
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
Sean, I think Brian wants to debayer his data and then do some more pre-processing to it before loading it into registax.
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|
bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
Quote:
Brian, not really sure what to suggest ... if you could fool the software into thinking that you have plain monochrome Y800 data then it would preserve all the bayer info.
You know that you've succeeded when you get a monochrome image that has a slight checkerboard appearance when you look at high magnification, the "green" pixels will be a lot brighter than the red and blue.
cheers, Bird
I'm going to run some footage through Virtualdub and see what I can find out. I'll keep you posted on my results.
Thanks again!
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
Quote:
there is multiple debayer options in RegiStax 4.
Sean
Thank you for the suggestion, Sean. As Bird mentioned I'd like to debayer prior to Registax if I can find a good way to do it. I've found it works great when I can debayer, convert to BMP, and then run the footage through PPMCentere (ninox) and RGBSplit first, as I get a centered and ranked set of images that are split into R,G, and B folders. This allows me to stack the R,G, and B channels separately in Registax which has been giving me better results. I've noticed for my seeing conditions, the blue channel always requires more wavelet sharpening, and usually a larger stack size to turn out decent as compared to the red and green channels.
I'm relatively sure the poor blue channel is due to seeing conditions. I think I know now why they call my area the Great Smoky Mountains!
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
Bird: I've sent you an email with a link to a few files. I've included a small AVI direct from the DBK camera in Y800 format, and a set of BMP images which came from a VirtualDub export of that AVI. I think from what I'm seeing on this end that the bayered color information is lost in the translation to BMP in VirtualDub. It does indeed have a "checkerboard" look to it, but I'm not seeing anything in the RGB channels in Photoshop (it looks totally grayscale). My gut feeling is that the VirtualDub export to BMP is not going to maintain the color information.
I still have options even if this doesn't work out. I can either a) purchase a K3CCDTools license as it does debayering and supports the Y800 codec, b) shoot in a codec other than Y800 so that the AVI is compatible with a larger variety of software, or c) let the DBK circuitry or IC Capture debayer the footage as it is being captured.
I like having the control of debayering after the fact, so out of the above choices I will probably purchase K3CCD Tools. But any of those options should give me a debayered file that can be converted to BMP so that it can be used within PPMCentere(ninox) prior to hitting Registax.
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
Brian, there's other free software around that can do the debayering as well - have a look at the netpbm toolkit (netpbm.sourceforge.net), in particular the pambayer tool.
If you have a modern linux system around there somewhere it will have the netpbm tools installed, as well as other tools like imagemagick that will have the same capabilities.
You can also get the netpbm tools for Windows, not as nice but will do the job.
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|
bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
Quote:
Brian, there's other free software around that can do the debayering as well - have a look at the netpbm toolkit (netpbm.sourceforge.net), in particular the pambayer tool.
If you have a modern linux system around there somewhere it will have the netpbm tools installed, as well as other tools like imagemagick that will have the same capabilities.
You can also get the netpbm tools for Windows, not as nice but will do the job.
cheers, Bird
Thanks for the heads up, Bird! I do indeed have a few Linux boxes here in the office, so I'll give it a try. It never occured to me that ImageMagik could do debayering - I've used it for years for "on-the-fly" website graphic manipulation, but never had to deal with bayered images before now.
I'll let everyone know how it works out.
Thanks again! Brian
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
ps for extracting the raw images from your AVI I'd suggest using virtualdub, save each frame as a greyscale BMP.
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
Brian, I've added debayer support to ninox, grab the latest version and give it a go. I've updated the online help to document (briefly) the -debayer option.
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|
bsumpter
super member
   
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Greeneville, TN
|
|
Perfect! This works beautifully, Bird!
For those following along with DBK cameras (or any cam capable of outputing Y800 bayered color), here is my process that works thanks to Bird and ninox:
1) Open Y800 bayered AVI through Virtualdub, and set Color Depth (under Video menu @ top) to Y8 on both decompression format and output format.
2) Export the video from Virtualdub (under File menu @ top) as an "Image Sequence", and choose BMP as the output format. Save files to a directory of your choosing.
3) Run the resulting BMP files through ninox specifying the debayer=N option that matches your camera's output. In my case (DBK 21AU04.AS) that was "2", as Bird discovered. My final ninox command looked like this:
ninox -cut=400 -outdir=debayered -debayer=2 -qestimator -qrenumber=first *.bmp
You can also overwrite using the -overwrite flag, and there are several other features available as well. For a complete list see the ninox website at: http://acquerra.com.au/astro/software/ppmcentre/
4) Once ninox is finished, you can either go straight to Registax with the sorted, cropped and debayered BMP files, or go one step further and split the resulting files into the R,G, and B channels using something like RGBSplit. I found the RGBSplit software on the Ice In Space website, and it works very well for our purposes.
5) Once the files are split into separate R,G, and B directories, these can be dragged into Registax and you can stack the channels separately. I noticed this helps with the finished image, and I usually end up applying different wavelet settings on the individual channels based on their quality.
6) From there, your standard photo procedures can take over. Either use Photoshop or Astra Image to recombine the RGB channels back together, and sharpen / adjust to taste. Astra Image is great as the deconvolution filters are very powerful, and in speaking with the developer when I purchased I could tell he is very commited to his products and a great person to deal with. You'll still probably need Photoshop or something similar for that final bit of adjusting.
I'm very new to astrophotography, but thanks to the help of this forum and the astro community at large I think I have my head wrapped around the processing side of things. I'm not that good at it yet, but I have the basics down and will be working to perfect the artistic side as I continue in this hobby.
Thanks again to Bird and everyone else for their assistance in this matter!
Brian
-------------------- Celestron Nexstar 8 SE SCT
R/C Hobby Servo Electric Focuser
DBK 21AU04.AS CCD Imaging Camera
Orion Starblast 4.5" Reflector w/ Celestron 114GT Mount
Meade RB-60 Achromat Refractor
ETSU - Johnson City, TN
|
iceman
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 4809
Loc: Gosford, Australia
|
|
Great to hear, and well done Bird what a legend.
-------------------- Mike
. mikesalway.com.au - Astronomy and Photography by Mike Salway
. IceInSpace - The Australian Amateur Astronomy Community
. My Bio | My Jupiter 2007 Gallery | My Image Gallery
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
Debayering isn't too hard, I should pay more attention to the needs of colour camera users but cause I'm doing everything in mono sometimes things get forgotten...
ps Brian there's also the -display option in the new ninox, copy the display library sdl.dll from the ninox zip file to somewhere on your path and give it a try.
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|
Bird
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 3024
Loc: Canberra, Australia
|
|
ps Brian, you can omit the *.bmp on the end of your command line above and ninox will process all the image files in the current directory - does the same thing :-)
cheers, Bird
-------------------- Deep Sky Optics 13.1" f/5.5 newtonian,
PGR Dragonfly Express, PGR Dragonfly 2
RedHat Linux + Coriander
http://www.acquerra.com.au/astro/
|