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Zhumell 20x80. On sale.

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#26 EdZ

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 09:08 PM

CAUTION.

We have had two people TODAY ( make that THREE) post to this forum and exclaim, I bought (or my friend bought) these Zhumell 20x80 binoculars from telescopes.com, but the alignment is so far off they can't be used.

I would caution anyone thinking about these binoculars to be aware that this condition might exist before you consider purchasing these binoculars. Think twice. You think you are getting a bargain for $69. You may not be getting such a bargain.

For most of our members, this IS NOT a good recommendation. For those of you who want to gamble on a potential problem piece of equipment, go ahead. But You've got to ask yourself, what the heck are you expecting for $69!

edz

#27 hallelujah

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 09:22 PM

CAUTION.

Think twice. You think you are getting a bargain for $69. You may not be getting such a bargain.

edz


Back in 1967 I learned, from playing card in the military, that losing my money ($5) was not an enjoyable experience. I have never gambled since.

Perhaps the $69 "bargains" are a learning experience.

Just a thought. :thinking:

#28 JerryZ

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 09:30 PM

I received my Zhumell 20x80 SuperGiants today and the collimation is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E. I have to ship them back for an exchange.

#29 Falcon Birder

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 11:06 PM

CAUTION.

We have had two people TODAY ( make that THREE) post to this forum and exclaim, I bought (or my friend bought) these Zhumell 20x80 binoculars from telescopes.com, but the alignment is so far off they can't be used.

I would caution anyone thinking about these binoculars to be aware that this condition might exist before you consider purchasing these binoculars. Think twice. You think you are getting a bargain for $69. You may not be getting such a bargain.

For most of our members, this IS NOT a good recommendation. For those of you who want to gamble on a problem piece of equipment, go ahead. But You've got to ask yourself, what the heck are you expecting for $69!

edz


Nod, nod! You pretty much get what you pay for. I have seen too many binoculars below $100 price range. They all fall into the horrible optics category. Those were smaller 40-50mm lens. With 80mm, you would expect spend more than $69 for just one piece of the lens that is used to construct the binocular. That's why a quality binoculars like Oberwerk BT series costs that much. I am saving my $69 for something better.

#30 mfs4n

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 08:51 AM

I also just received a pair of mis-collimated Zhumell's. But it didn't take long to get them into perfect collimation. I've been drinking in amazing views of Comet Holmes the last couple of nights. It's unfortunate (but workable) that the problem lies in the weak frame that support the two large optics. The frame bends under force misaligning the two optical trains. This property also makes for an easy "adjustment". It took me about four twists and pulls on the two sides to bring them into collimation using a bright star for reference. Since that time they have remained collimated under normal gentle use. Personally, I'm thrilled that a mere $69 has delivered such a wonderful observing capability.

#31 EdZ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 10:16 AM

The frame bends under force misaligning the two optical trains. This property also makes for an easy "adjustment". It took me about four twists and pulls on the two sides to bring them into collimation using a bright star for reference. Since that time they have remained collimated under normal gentle use.


Oh my word. These are absolutely the WORST qualities you would ever want in an optical instrument housing. And NO, YOU DID NOT COLLIMATE YOUR BINOCULAR. You twisted it until you could see out of it. Frankly, a good quality, even a fair quality instrument, would never allow you to do such a thing.

This is one more testament from an owner that makes me want to SCREAM OUT LOUD, stop buying this stuff, stay away from this stuff, stop recommending this stuff, stop, stop, stop.

edz

#32 KennyJ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 10:28 AM

Ed took the words out of my mouth !

I actually felt unsure as to whether or not it would be wise to pick up on that word collimation again , so soon after the recent debacles , so refrained from mentioning this at first -- but if Ed thinks it's OK to mention that word again in one of HIS posts , then I will too !

If anyone can make binoculars work for them by ANY method or means -- then good luck to them --

-- but PLEASE don't mistake that for an act of PERFECT COLLIMATION -- PLEASE ! :-)

In fact , I propose a new forum rule -- NO member is allowed to use the word COLLIMATION until they have at least 100 posts to their name -- how about that ? :-)

Regards
Kenny

#33 mark22c

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 10:49 AM

i am completely astounded although not suprised by some of the remarks made and even if these things are falling apart...the "i bought them so they must be great" seemingly delusional mind set beggers belief! the twistable collimation! is not a good thing
you get what you pay for and you gota live with it, i feel sorry for any one who buys these on anothers recomendations

$69!!!for a 20x80... $1000 for a brand new car??? enjoy :roflmao:

regards mark :foreheadslap:

#34 Jim Rosenstock

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:26 AM

Hey guys, I have a lightly-used pair of 20X80s for sale for only $45. And that includes shipping, and a free rubber mallet for adjusting the collimation!

:roflmao:

#35 mark22c

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:33 AM

if you fill em with sand/lead shot i'll buy em for a door stop... if anyone else wants to sell there's i'd have a pair and could use em for novelty bookends! mind you at $69 new thats not a bad price for a novelty binocular shaped bookend

#36 Falcon Birder

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:38 AM

I received my Zhumell 20x80 SuperGiants today and the collimation is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E. I have to ship them back for an exchange.


I hope they cover the return shipping charge because of the quality

#37 arowana

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 12:20 PM

I also just received a pair of mis-collimated Zhumell's. But it didn't take long to get them into perfect collimation. I've been drinking in amazing views of Comet Holmes the last couple of nights. It's unfortunate (but workable) that the problem lies in the weak frame that support the two large optics. The frame bends under force misaligning the two optical trains. This property also makes for an easy "adjustment". It took me about four twists and pulls on the two sides to bring them into collimation using a bright star for reference. Since that time they have remained collimated under normal gentle use. Personally, I'm thrilled that a mere $69 has delivered such a wonderful observing capability.


Congrat's on the Binoc's. I am glad it was easy for you to fix the problem. I have a pair on the way and hope they are as easy to fix as yours was if mine arrives mis-collimated,mis-aligned,mis-configured or whatever it's called this week.

CS's
Joey

#38 OvidiuDanut

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 12:59 PM

Well, for the price if they can be adjusted somehow to get clear views its fine with me. I perfectly understand Edz's professional point of view, but still these are 20x80 FMC binoculars selling for 69 bucks.

#39 stargazertony

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 01:34 PM

Hmm I geuss this isn't a place for me to talk about binoculars. I have the Barska 20x80s and guess I was lucky and got a good pair that work really well but when I here the rude comments about door stops, book ends, and other things well Its just time for me to move on. I understand that some persons cant afford much more and maybe this is their only option but to mock them is just wrong. I have learned alot in this forum but I,m gonna just gonna stick with the reflector forum from now on. I know it no loss to you because Im a newbie with cheap binoculars. I think its time for me to spend more time observing and less time sitting here listening about my lousy sub $100.00 binoculars. Yes one day I will spend $1000.00 or more on a nice set of binoculars because I have now decided I really like to observe with binoculars and my Cheap binoculars showed me that and that in my eyes makes them worth more than what I paid for them!



#40 mark22c

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 01:56 PM

im sorry you find my comments rude! i dont have a lot af cash to spend due to being egged on and encouraged to by cheap naff bins by others who said they were good, with all the cash i've waisted on several pairs of cheap bins i could have bought one good set had i been a little patient. as it is im stuck with the ones i have and im not happy...i could sell them for a fraction of what i paid and start again i suppose but what a waste of money.
i expect more will leave binocular astronomy if these things are there only disapointing reference. a few dollers more would buy a reasonably good set of 10x50's which imho would give more pleasure if thats all you can afford
im just trying to stop you guys making the same mistakes i made ... an its falling on deaf ears i give up!

#41 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 01:58 PM

You don't NEED $1000 to get a really good binocular. You just need to aim a little higher.

And the people saying things like this are NOT being elitists, but rather realists.

Cheers,

Bill

#42 AppFire

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:07 PM

Hmm I geuss this isn't a place for me to talk about binoculars. I have the Barska 20x80s and guess I was lucky and got a good pair that work really well but when I here the rude comments about door stops, book ends, and other things well Its just time for me to move on. I understand that some persons cant afford much more and maybe this is their only option but to mock them is just wrong. I have learned alot in this forum but I,m gonna just gonna stick with the reflector forum from now on. I know it no loss to you because Im a newbie with cheap binoculars. I think its time for me to spend more time observing and less time sitting here listening about my lousy sub $100.00 binoculars. Yes one day I will spend $1000.00 or more on a nice set of binoculars because I have now decided I really like to observe with binoculars and my Cheap binoculars showed me that and that in my eyes makes them worth more than what I paid for them!


Thank you, well put!!! I have also been "visiting" this forum and have really enjoyed it until just a few days ago. I visit alot of forums here on CN's and this is the first one I have seen where alot of people cannot get along. It seems as if you do not have a $1000 pair of binos you are not in the "in crowd" and are labeled an outcast with a cheap good for nothing pair of binos. I for one am enjoying my binos and that is all that matters to me. Good luck to this forum, maybe one day everybody will realize that if we can all get along and support each other instead of bashing everything that is said this place will be almost perfect....almost.

Chris

#43 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:13 PM

There is MUCH more to a binocular than FMC or BaK4 or . . . It is the assemblage that counts! You can have a racehorse that is muscled, young, smart, with a beautiful coat, and a great track record. Yet, he can’t win the next race if he happens to also be . . . dead!

While I promised two moderators, yesterday, that I would avoid using the “C” word, I am thrilled to see that more and more of you are picking up the torch and standing for the truth. Don’t let it down, ever. If you do, you will be quickly overrun. These kinds of lists are breeding grounds for the instant experts and, if left to the prevailing “fairness doctrine,” you’re going to get nothing but more and more *bleep* from the purveyors of *bleep* (self-bleeped, by the way!)

The TOS has a lot of stipulations that can hinder the flow of accurate, provable, information from sources with resumes a mile long and who have been designated as credible “expert” witnesses in federal law cases, in favor of the words of novices with big mouths, bigger egos and NO rational experience. The logical man must ask, “Is this the best thing for the cause?” I say nay.

Information could flow freely, and much good could be done if new members were required to plainly state their credentials before they start spouting their **BLEEP** or challenging those who have spent the time to get the credentials and are willing to take their time to share it and have the guts to STAND BEHIND EVERY WORD THEY SAY, and that, in itself, being a known truism.

From my vantage point, the bino list is getting closer to a playpen every day. The mature seeker of truth must come to wonder of the value in visiting the site. Is it to gain knowledge, or to help the uninitiated build their unbridled and ill-fed egos. You see, the greatest “ARROGANCE” operates like a submarine, and can, and does, harm many.

But then, what do I know? I’m not supposed to talk about some of the MOST IMPORTANT aspects of binoculars because I might offend someone, who so desperately needs to be offended.

Cheers,

Bill Cook,
The Society of Professional Journalists (and lousy proofreaders)

#44 KennyJ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:20 PM

< I know it no loss to you because Im a newbie with cheap binoculars. >

Anthony ,

To the contrary , your self confessed status of " newbie " and which binoculars you happen to be using has no bearing on your value to the people who read this forum .

Only yesterday I mentioned on another thread that EVERY member here deserves RESPECT , and your opinions are just as valid and valued as those of anyone else here .

I will be the first to admit to being one of those who has spoken in a derogatory manner about certain very low priced binoculars , but have only ever done so in an attempt to help others avoid literally wasting their money .

However , if the 20 x 80 you bought for very little have made the difference of giving you a strong passion for binocular observing , then that MUST be money WELL spent , and a hope raiser for many others .

I will post another reminder that for more than 30 years I got by with a single set of 10 x 50 binoculars , which , purely on an optical level , by today's standards would be quite rightfully classified as rubbish .

Over the past few days , there have been several members here who for one reason or another , have expressed a desire not to return to this forum .

Having spent a great deal of my precious leisure time trying in my humble way to help make this forum a friendly and helpful place to visit , that saddens me very much .

I'm wondering ,can we not ALL just try a little bit harder to keep this place friendly and peaceful , perhaps by thinking a little more carefully about what we post BEFORE we post ?

Is it likely to upset any other member ?

Is there a more tactful way in which we can make the same points without " getting personal " ?

Do we REALLY have to make a decision NEVER to post to a forum again , just because we may disagree with another member's opinion , or the way in which a point was made ?

To me , these things are not unlike being part of a family living under the same roof -- almost always , compromises have to be made to try to keep EVERYONE reasonable happy .

So PLEASE spare a thought for our hard working moderator , Ed Zarenski , who is not in the best of shape right now to start with .

Peace and kind regards to all
Kenny

#45 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:26 PM

Anthony:

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!! Kenny is right . . . as always. It is FOR the NEWBIE that we get our necks in a bow to start with! You have a right to learn and grow with ALL of us. Yet, there are those afoot who would have each newbie believe that their opinions are tantamount to fact.

Those who have been down the road just want to sweep some of the BUMPS out of the way. And if you can trust me, there are PLENTY of BUMPS to deter you.

Have a great weekend, and by all means stay with us!!

Cheers,

Bill

#46 mark22c

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:29 PM

i'd like to add im not a binocular "snobb" in fact im the opposite, if you look at the bins i own right now i have two pairs that are good and they cost me (for the pair) £30 uk they are old japanese and very high quality opticaly and machanicaly, they dont have modern "multi coatings" or bak 4 glass but are still every bit as good as bins costing 15x what i paid for them. im not loaded with cash but i refuse to pay any price for rubish.
$69 would buy me two or maybe three pairs of top quality bins with a little patients and leg work... money doesnt come into it, im try to help some people out here and save em there cash. the complete opposit to what you think i am doing

kind regards mark... sorry

#47 arowana

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:38 PM

So PLEASE spare a thought for our hard working moderator , Ed Zarenski , who is not in the best of shape right now to start with .

Oh my word. These are absolutely the WORST qualities you would ever want in an optical instrument housing. And NO, YOU DID NOT COLLIMATE YOUR BINOCULAR. You twisted it until you could see out of it. Frankly, a good quality, even a fair quality instrument, would never provide the ability to do such a thing.

This is one more testament from an owner that makes me want to SCREAM OUT LOUD, stop buying this *BLEEP*, stay away from this junk, stop recommending this garbage, stop, stop, stop.

edz


O' I think EdZ is feeling fine. :tonofbricks:

CS's
Joey

#48 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:49 PM

Actually, he's showing more spunk than I've seen him use before! 'Cept, of course, when he's beating me!! :jump:

Cheers,

Bill

#49 mark22c

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:51 PM

i think things get a little more heated here sometimes because of the way bins work ie you have two telescopes to alighn as a pose to one and it seems to be the single biggest problem with lower priced bins these days with the influx and flooding of the market with some really awfull products at some ridiculas prices that make really big clames. some of these bins are quite literally being thrown out of factories in china and by the looks of it its more a case of no collimation instead of miss collimation.
i've stopped buying modern bins that i could afford and have instead turned to older and imho better until i can afford something high quality and that will cost maybe 10x the price of these 20x80's... but i can wait and cost is forgoten long before quality
i for one choose to stay in this forum because i get the hard truth from some and im smart enough i think to know who those people are, sometimes the truth upsets
its a cold hard world and there are plenty of people out there peddling rubish because we keep buying it

#50 EdZ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:57 PM

These remarks were made by three differnt posters up above.

1. but still these are 20x80 FMC binoculars selling for 69 bucks

2. It seems as if you do not have a $1000 pair of binos you are not in the "in crowd" and are labeled an outcast with a cheap good for nothing pair of binos.

3. Information could flow freely, and much good could be done if new members were required to plainly state their credentials


1. I believe that is incorrect. I tested a brand of the exact same model of these binoculars. I tested the Anttlers Optics (D&B Astro?) version called the Skysweeper 20x80. Cost 169$. The only multicoated surfaces in the entire binocular is the objective lens. The prisms are single coated. The eyepieces, all three groups, are single coated. The multicoating on the objective lens is not high quality, it is more reflective than most. It is supposed to be ANTI-reflective. So seeing it posted here as fmc is exactly the type of mis-information this particular forum strives to eliminate.

2. I sure as heck don't know why someone would say this about members of this forum. Most people in this forum don't now nor will they ever own $1000 binoculars. I own 25 pair of binoculars that cost less than $400. 20 of them cost about $200 or less. I certainly don't belong to some sort of elitest club by the equipment I own, but I make it a point to understand and know about the equipment I own. I also make it a point to understand the value of equipment.

3. Well I don't disagree that you need to get smart about the products you own, the products you want to own, and especially if you want to recommend products to others, you need to get smart about what you recommend. However, we don't need to know your credentials. But If you don't know enough to know your product, know the difference between a quality product and a poor product, then don't claim you do. Maybe it's best you listen to other peoples recommendations rather than make recommendations.

When newcomers arrive in the forum they need to know the source that they are getting their information from knows what they are talking about. If everybody comes here acting like they know what they're taking about, then everybody else who's listening has got an awful hard job separating the wheat from the chaff.

I'll apologize if I've offended you. But I will not apologize for repeating that there is a huge difference in quality and not getting quality. You make your own bed. Sleep in it. Spend your money however you like, it's yours. But listen, listen intently, when someone tries to explain to you that you could spend you hard earned money more wisely. Quite a few of the people here spend a great deal of time gathering data that you will never find on some website like binocularsdotcom, the data that you need so that you all will have the right the information to make the right choice. It's here if you want to use it, but no one will make you use it.

edz


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